Driver Side Steering Tough - Redhead Box and new OEM Pump

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I was in the

I was in the same predicament. I spent the money on the 105 sector shaft upgrade parts and didn't want to lose them and also didn't really want to send the box back to RedHead at that point. I found another donor box, spend $100 on a rebuild kit, and used the mud DIY rebuild tutorial to reseal the new box myself. I had a couple 'cruiser buddies stand over my shoulder and offer fresh curse words and epithets needed for getting every last recirculating ball back in the power head. We swapped the 105 sector shaft into the replacement box too. That's how I found the gouges in the bore that [I believe] RedHead either overlooked or caused.

If you did hop for a new box, it is not terribly hard to pull the top cover to replace just the sector shaft (most of the work is in replacing the bearings and seals and the cursed recirculating balls). I think you could swap the sector shaft pretty easily and not touch anything else if you are careful with the seals.
Nice! Glad you sorted out your situation. I may have to end up getting a donor and rebuild kit like you did.

I sent a note to redhead. They ranted about me having ram assist but it was never drilled for that. They also claim the stock oem pump is only going to be rated for 31” tires. I clearly know this is not the case as do many others on this site. Not to mention… the box actually works great and has plenty of power steering assist… until it hits that spot and things feel like they bind up (a quick twitch of the wheel and power steering is back).

[rant off]
 
I was in the

I was in the same predicament. I spent the money on the 105 sector shaft upgrade parts and didn't want to lose them and also didn't really want to send the box back to RedHead at that point. I found another donor box, spend $100 on a rebuild kit, and used the mud DIY rebuild tutorial to reseal the new box myself. I had a couple 'cruiser buddies stand over my shoulder and offer fresh curse words and epithets needed for getting every last recirculating ball back in the power head. We swapped the 105 sector shaft into the replacement box too. That's how I found the gouges in the bore that [I believe] RedHead either overlooked or caused.

If you did hop for a new box, it is not terribly hard to pull the top cover to replace just the sector shaft (most of the work is in replacing the bearings and seals and the cursed recirculating balls). I think you could swap the sector shaft pretty easily and not touch anything else if you are careful with the seals.
The new boxes all come with the “upgraded” sector shaft.
 
Ah, so if I order OEM they it comes with the larger sector shaft?
Yes, new Toyota OEM steering boxes all have the larger sector shaft. You'll know because you'll need a new pitman arm, as the old one will not fit. ;)
 
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I had a couple 'cruiser buddies stand over my shoulder and offer fresh curse words and epithets needed for getting every last recirculating ball back in the power head.
As I remember it was ALL the curse words and epithets. And then like fools we did it all over again a few weeks later for my steering box rebuild and 105 upgrade!
 
I have not been impressed with the quality coming out of redhead in recent years. I rebuild quite a few boxes and pumps and I see as many redheads crap out or develop play as parts store boxes that are 1/3 of the price. Steering boxes and pumps are pretty easy to rebuild as long as you have some patience and a clean work bench. IMO, DIY rebuilds are often better as you will care about it to spend enough time to make sure its done properly.

Try marking then backing the preload adjuster screw out 1/16th of a turn and see if the issue goes away. If there is too much preload, the box will bind at the end of travel like you are describing.

Atf should be fine. I have been running valvoline full synthetic atf or mobil dte 24 in everything for 20 years now, both work great. Unless you have hydro assist, an 80 system will bleed itself in a minute of driving without doing anything special as long as the reservoir stays full enough that the pump does not cavitate and aerate the fliud. Hydro assist can take several sessions of lock to lock cycles on jack stands, especially if the fluid is aerated.

If you are seeing aeration in your fluid, clean the reservoir screen out. When I bought my 1st 80, the steering whined like crazy any time it saw any stress or heat. I cleaned the reservoir out and added a good size plate style cooler, been silent ever since.
 
When I bought my 1st 80, the steering whined like crazy any time it saw any stress or heat. I cleaned the reservoir out and added a good size plate style cooler, been silent ever since.
What was your process of cleaning it?
 

I have not been impressed with the quality coming out of redhead in recent years. I rebuild quite a few boxes and pumps and I see as many redheads crap out or develop play as parts store boxes that are 1/3 of the price. Steering boxes and pumps are pretty easy to rebuild as long as you have some patience and a clean work bench. IMO, DIY rebuilds are often better as you will care about it to spend enough time to make sure its done properly.

Try marking then backing the preload adjuster screw out 1/16th of a turn and see if the issue goes away. If there is too much preload, the box will bind at the end of travel like you are describing.

Atf should be fine. I have been running valvoline full synthetic atf or mobil dte 24 in everything for 20 years now, both work great. Unless you have hydro assist, an 80 system will bleed itself in a minute of driving without doing anything special as long as the reservoir stays full enough that the pump does not cavitate and aerate the fliud. Hydro assist can take several sessions of lock to lock cycles on jack stands, especially if the fluid is aerated.

If you are seeing aeration in your fluid, clean the reservoir screen out. When I bought my 1st 80, the steering whined like crazy any time it saw any stress or heat. I cleaned the reservoir out and added a good size plate style cooler, been silent ever since.
Great info and thanks.

I also read a thread where 2fpowered slightly drilled out the high pressure restrictor for more flow. Have you ever messed with that?

I am now chasing the pump psi solve (i read OEM puts out about 1,200 and I need the 1,500-1,600 range.
 
What was your process of cleaning it?
Pull the reservoir, backflush your degreaser of choice through the suction port (large line) and repeat about 20 times until its clean. Some people have split the reservoir to get the screen out, but I could see it good enough. I use diesel or purple power.
 
Great info and thanks.

I also read a thread where 2fpowered slightly drilled out the high pressure restrictor for more flow. Have you ever messed with that?

I am now chasing the pump psi solve (i read OEM puts out about 1,200 and I need the 1,500-1,600 range.
A few people have played around with that, but the stock pump is pretty low volume and just adequate pressure. I have not touched them on an 80, mostly you will end up making more heat and having cavitation issues. Not sure who, but someone did some pretty extensive testing and found that there was not a whole lot to gain by enlarging the resrictor orifice. If you bump the pressure up 100psi the amount of heat generated was greatly increased. Toyota boxes dont like higher pressure, their max is around 1500 and you will see spikes of 100-150 over the stock pressure. Its a huge bummer that the 80 pump is so limited, and there is no easy way to add a higher flow TC or CBR pump because of the gear drive. I did play around with mini truck and tacoma pumps, years ago. Drilling the orifice out a bit never hurt anything, but playing with the pressure burned up a few pumps. Pump mods will only really benefit you if running hydro assist. If you can fit a cbr pump, that is the route to go.
 
Great info and thanks.

I also read a thread where 2fpowered slightly drilled out the high pressure restrictor for more flow. Have you ever messed with that?

I am now chasing the pump psi solve (i read OEM puts out about 1,200 and I need the 1,500-1,600 range.
I sent my box off to redhead 3 or 4 years ago for the rebuild, upgrade and porting. Then ran it a couple years with hydro assist and zero issues until I wrecked that 80 and now the parts are waiting to be installed on a new build. In all the research I did for the addition of hydro assist I came to the conclusion to not drill out the pump pressure orifice. Note that I also ran a brake hydro booster so my pump was busy. I thought I remember reading in the fsm that the 80’s pump was good for 1,500 psi. Drilling the orifice will decrease pressure output because it’s the restrictions in the system that produce pressure. I think the oem reservoir is a weak link once we increase demand so I also installed a larger PSC reservoir with internal filter and two return ports, one dedicated to steering and one dedicated to the hydro booster. She worked very well other than I’d have to pick up rpm’s just above idle at times on the trail jammed up in rocks and not really moving.
 

That is the thread I was referring to above. Took a long time to find it
 

That is the thread I was referring to above. Took a long time to find it
Like many other such threads on Mud, that one provides no real information and then suddenly takes a nose dive ending up a smoking hole in the ground. Stated on the last page of that thread by someone other than the original poster; you only notice the steering being slow while driving if you yank the steering where back and forth very quickly. I only ever noticed lack of steering power off road when I was stationary, jammed up, and needed to turn the wheels before moving even 1”. At that point putting the trans in neutral, and picking up 200-300rpm’s allowed ample steering power always. Will your 80 feel numb on the road with no feed back? Yes. Will the steering wheel return to center like it did before the addition of hydro assist? Not fully, it’ll need some input from you. It will feel different just like after we lift, re-gear and install big tires. We can’t expect to do what we do to these 80’s to improve our off road experience and also continue to enjoy the vehicle Toyota drove out the back door of the factory.

It’s important to not go larger than a 1.5” hydro assist cylinder and start with a new(er) pump.
 
I am still having the same issue like you and I have both described. It’s only when turning back one direction and, so far, only at low to no speed.

Maybe a volume issue?
When it happens… a very slight move of the steering wheel to the passenger side (and by slight it’s about a 1/2 inch) seems to “release” something inside the box and the power steering just kicks in like nothing was wrong. I see why their tech says air bubble but I have bled my fair share of systems and followed their instructions to the letter multiple times as well as a handful of other ways to do it. Any air bubble should have released by now and not to mention I am getting the same result every time.

Again… I am thinking volume here… there have been times and I am trying to “test” this when it happens… but when I up the rpm’s it seems to help as well.

All of that said, this is why I have the idea maybe it’s a volume issue. They said they hog these things out and am wondering if a brand new OEM Toyota pump is not up to the task of pushing the volume of fluid the box needs after modification.

Here are my questions for the Tech over there that has not had the desire to speak with me directly in the past:
- Would an air bubble be side specific like this based on how the 80 box is built?
- Is it the power steering fluid I am using? Maybe it’s the wrong viscosity? Can you tell me the specs I should use? (FYI, I’m using Lucas ATF semi-synthetic standard viscosity meets or exceeds dex lll, mercon V and ATF +4)
- Are they testing at a pressure that is greater than what a stock 80 series OEM pump can produce and maybe this is why they can’t replicate the issue?
- Is the ball getting stuck or wedged based on some of the work they did?

My box has been on, off, sent back, fixed, back on, off, back on… and bled more times than I have ever wanted to think about (at initial setup and post setup attempts to bleed).

Not sure what to do that this point but I am going yo try reaching out again. Maybe 80s are just not a big enough market for them to deal with issues and troubleshoot?
Last year I was told by Redhead that they spec them a little ‘tight’ so they will ‘wear’ in appropriately toward the ‘center’ (higher wear area) of the steering.
With the lock nut loosening, I have lost the ‘factory’ set adjustment, and have played a little with adjusting the screw. Small adjustments, clockwise decreases tension, counter-clockwise increases. I think I’ve found a balance to where it is drivable.
As a side note, a Toyota tech at a different company told me recently that they have seen this or similar behavior problems more recently coming out of Redhead… So what are other options?
 
Like many other such threads on Mud, that one provides no real information and then suddenly takes a nose dive ending up a smoking hole in the ground. Stated on the last page of that thread by someone other than the original poster; you only notice the steering being slow while driving if you yank the steering where back and forth very quickly. I only ever noticed lack of steering power off road when I was stationary, jammed up, and needed to turn the wheels before moving even 1”. At that point putting the trans in neutral, and picking up 200-300rpm’s allowed ample steering power always. Will your 80 feel numb on the road with no feed back? Yes. Will the steering wheel return to center like it did before the addition of hydro assist? Not fully, it’ll need some input from you. It will feel different just like after we lift, re-gear and install big tires. We can’t expect to do what we do to these 80’s to improve our off road experience and also continue to enjoy the vehicle Toyota drove out the back door of the factory.

It’s important to not go larger than a 1.5” hydro assist cylinder and start with a new(er) pump.
Not sure what you mean by that - lots of good information in that thread. That is the only thread I have found on mud that posts any flow and pressure numbers for the 80 power steering pump. The moral of that thread is that there are no big gains to be had by modifying the stock pump, and any modification to the pump has a downside. Another great piece of info from that thread is that heatsink coolers suck. Joey was selling a kit, so everyone though they were a top notch engineered solution, when in reality they drop around 10 degrees of fluid temp at best, and to get that you are looking at 100+ degree differential between the fluid temp and ambient air temp. Mud is on the internet, take anything you read on the internet with a grain of salt but remember the people who speak the loudest often have the least to say. I would rather read a thread by someone who tried and failed than someone who says their mods and or product work great, but have no data whatsoever to back it up. Lots more of that on mud than people who admit they failed and gave up. Definitely would like to have seen some detail on what pump modifications he tried, but if you know much about hydraulic systems, there are very limited areas that could provide gains without creating excessive heat, cavitation or risk a catastrophic failure of hard parts. Also, sounds like his intent was to sell a product, so he would be a fool to give that info up.

I can confidently say I have more knowlege of and experience with toyota trucks and engineering in general than all but a few people on mud. I dont start many threads or comment much because I dont have the time or desire to explain every detail of my knowlege, experience, education and all avenues explored and why they do or do not work. The few times I have, it always ends with me having to argue with someone who knows far less than me because of statments just like yours above - so I choose to not waste my time. I could dispute every observation you made in your post - because all of that is only true if you gave up and accept that your truck does not drive as good as it did stock. But its not worth my time, probably was not worth the original poster of that thread's time either.

The last line you posted has some truth, but is also incomplete. It would be much more valuable advise If you rephreased it to "To ensure success when adding hydraulic ram assist steering to an 80 series with a stock pump, ensure the pump is operating at full capacity and limit ram piston diameter to 1.5" to minimize slowing of steering response due to the added flow capacity needed to operate the ram. Be aware that when using a single ended ram, there will be more delay in one direction of steering travel than the other due to the shaft displacing fluid volume on one side of the piston in the ram. Ensure an adequately sized cooler is used to keep fluid temperature at or below 140f and that the fluid reservoir is of sufficient capactity to account for fluid expansion when the system is under heavy use".
 
Not sure what you mean by that - lots of good information in that thread. That is the only thread I have found on mud that posts any flow and pressure numbers for the 80 power steering pump. The moral of that thread is that there are no big gains to be had by modifying the stock pump, and any modification to the pump has a downside. Another great piece of info from that thread is that heatsink coolers suck. Joey was selling a kit, so everyone though they were a top notch engineered solution, when in reality they drop around 10 degrees of fluid temp at best, and to get that you are looking at 100+ degree differential between the fluid temp and ambient air temp. Mud is on the internet, take anything you read on the internet with a grain of salt but remember the people who speak the loudest often have the least to say. I would rather read a thread by someone who tried and failed than someone who says their mods and or product work great, but have no data whatsoever to back it up. Lots more of that on mud than people who admit they failed and gave up. Definitely would like to have seen some detail on what pump modifications he tried, but if you know much about hydraulic systems, there are very limited areas that could provide gains without creating excessive heat, cavitation or risk a catastrophic failure of hard parts. Also, sounds like his intent was to sell a product, so he would be a fool to give that info up.

I can confidently say I have more knowlege of and experience with toyota trucks and engineering in general than all but a few people on mud. I dont start many threads or comment much because I dont have the time or desire to explain every detail of my knowlege, experience, education and all avenues explored and why they do or do not work. The few times I have, it always ends with me having to argue with someone who knows far less than me because of statments just like yours above - so I choose to not waste my time. I could dispute every observation you made in your post - because all of that is only true if you gave up and accept that your truck does not drive as good as it did stock. But its not worth my time, probably was not worth the original poster of that thread's time either.

The last line you posted has some truth, but is also incomplete. It would be much more valuable advise If you rephreased it to "To ensure success when adding hydraulic ram assist steering to an 80 series with a stock pump, ensure the pump is operating at full capacity and limit ram piston diameter to 1.5" to minimize slowing of steering response due to the added flow capacity needed to operate the ram. Be aware that when using a single ended ram, there will be more delay in one direction of steering travel than the other due to the shaft displacing fluid volume on one side of the piston in the ram. Ensure an adequately sized cooler is used to keep fluid temperature at or below 140f and that the fluid reservoir is of sufficient capactity to account for fluid expansion when the system is under heavy use".
Apparently I solicited your full attention. The thread in question was ALL hype. You know nothing more now than the day before you laid eyes on that train wreck of a thread. Those were early days of 80 series modding after soccer mom’s traded their 80 in for the 100. Hopes were high. Reality began to settle in. Reality is not realized in a shop or Laboratory where dreamers sweat over calculations and drill bit size. Trying doesn’t count. Losers can say they tried. Intensions resolve themselves through successful action.

Get back with us when you over come the 1fz PS pump deficiencies. And thank you for writing in complete sentences to the best of my reckoning. It’s not often I can veer from a well written book to the internet and be happy about a style of writing.
 
Last year I was told by Redhead that they spec them a little ‘tight’ so they will ‘wear’ in appropriately toward the ‘center’ (higher wear area) of the steering.
With the lock nut loosening, I have lost the ‘factory’ set adjustment, and have played a little with adjusting the screw. Small adjustments, clockwise decreases tension, counter-clockwise increases. I think I’ve found a balance to where it is drivable.
As a side note, a Toyota tech at a different company told me recently that they have seen this or similar behavior problems more recently coming out of Redhead… So what are other options?
I have heard this from readhead many times, I dont buy it. When you replace the sector shaft with a new 105 shaft, you are replacing one of the wear components with a new part. The power piston will wear the new sector shaft in to the same pattern as the old one pretty quickly, as it is gear mesh and a used part VS a new part, the used part always wins. The only thing you can adjust is preload on the sector shaft, and too tight causes the issue the OP is having. They dont want boxes coming back because they developed some slop in the center of travel, so they put slightly too much preload on them to start with. You will notice they mark the adjuster so they can void your warranty if you try to adjust it yourself. In my practical experience, adjusting sector shaft preload is best done on the truck and you will either have a tiny bit if play in the center, or binding at the ends of travel. you have to choose a happy medium. Easier to do when all components are used and worn to one another, but when you replace half of a gear set, play will develop somewhere.

Not sure if they still do, but redhead used to say they replace the bearings in the recirculating ball screw to account for wear. The issue with that is that in oversizing the bearings (we are talking in .0001's of an inch here) will change the contact pattern on the ball screw, so that too will wear very quickly and slop will develop.

Redhead has always done top quality rebuilds, but I am skeptcal of their claims on making used components perform as good or better than new. It seems to me like they grew really quickly, so my guess is they dont have the same guy building every toyota box that comes in like they used to years ago. I used to ship a lot of 105 sector shaft kits to them and west texas offroad, I have heard less complaints from WTOR over the last few years.

To answer your question, a new toyota box is the only perfect answer. 2nd best is doing it yourself and starting with a box that has minimal wear. WTOR is pretty good, but not perfect either. By the way, I don't dislike redhead, but my opinion is that they promise something that is impossible to deliver.
 
Apparently I solicited your full attention. The thread in question was ALL hype. You know nothing more now than the day before you laid eyes on that train wreck of a thread. Those were early days of 80 series modding after soccer mom’s traded their 80 in for the 100. Hopes were high. Reality began to settle in. Reality is not realized in a shop or Laboratory where dreamers sweat over calculations and drill bit size. Trying doesn’t count. Losers can say they tried. Intensions resolve themselves through successful action.

Get back with us when you over come the 1fz PS pump deficiencies. And thank you for writing in complete sentences to the best of my reckoning. It’s not often I can veer from a well written book to the internet and be happy about a style of writing.
Not at all, I wrote that mostly from stall #2 in the upstairs bathroom at work.

I do know that thread coincides with my person experience trying to turn a mini truck or tacoma PS pump into something other than what it was, back when a PSC pump cost a good portion of a paycheck. I have rebuild enough 80 pumps to know that there is not enough juice to justify the squeeze.

And for the record, 95%+ percent of my time as a professional is failure. I spend the extreme majority of my time developing ideas that fail in a labratory. But when I do succeed, its big. When I fail, I never forget why and learn from it. I dont think out loud though, and thats more or less what that poster was doing. Probably another reason I don't start many threads. I can say though, my 80 drives really nice :cheers:
 
Did you succeed big in stall #2? Hammering the road and the trail brings those discoveries we long for.
 
Did you succeed big in stall #2? Hammering the road and the trail brings those discoveries we long for.
Stall #2 will never be the same

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