Draining Fuel from gas tank? (1 Viewer)

[2001LC]

Mixed 1/2 oz of Sta-bil 360 to 2.2 gallons of fresh 91 Octane, then pour in the tank. The Sta-bil 360 claims to protect all parts including those above fuel level, by giving off a gas that protects. I'll add more of the mixture each month or so until I get running. With winter coming it may be awhile.

I then fired-up the Unicorn and move it into the garage. It took about five times starting engine while pumping the gas pedal, then drop in gear to move a few feet and repeat, to move ~40 feet into the garage. Blown engine runs (kinda) amazing.

Fresh fuel & new battery helped. It also puts me at ease, that I'll not have to worry about bad fuel and water from tank to fuel injector tips. I may fire it up a few more times, just to make sure the mixture has gotten all the way to fuel injectors.

 

[2001LC]

glad you got it figured out but for future reference there would have been no issues with running that gas. MY LC has sat for much longer and our gas is full of ethanol and never had any issues.

Hard to say. Bad gas is never good, but if run out fast, it's not much of an issue. In fact; I'll be running that old gas in other vehicles, as I'm not concerned as long as it doesn't sit. Run or burned up rather quickly with some water in fuel will not hurt, and may aid in decarbonizing. The fuel separating is not much issue either, provided mix with fresh, according to that earlier BP link on gas storage.

But notice the fuel pipe on the pump with some corrosion. That from moisture vapor in gas tank. It's recommended that tank be stored full, which this was not nor could I drive. The "360" helps with this issue. But water itself sits at bottom of tank, how much depends on how long it sits among other factors.

But with this rig, my concern was water or moisture sitting in system. It has sat ~6 months and will be sitting even longer. The water will form rust spots in fuel components like pump, lines, filter, FPR & fuel injector. As for recirculation system I've no idea, but can't be good either if not running engine on regular basis. Last thing I wanted was chases my tail due to water issues in fuel. By running with bad gas then shutting down and letting sit is where the real problems begin.

I also want the best gas to get this puppy fired up. Which was not easy. I had already swapped out spark plugs, drain milkshake from crankcase and installed a new battery. If i could get fired up, I would have had issue getting up hill into my garage.

Running a bit rough.

 

[Spike555]

I'm glad you accomplished what you wanted to do.
The 2.5hrs is why I said leave well enough alone.
You're overthinking the fuel and making it into a issue when it doesn't need to be.

Your mind is at ease and that is really all that matters.

 

[jerryb]

I think toyota uses that FSM procedure for a function test. Because obviously polarity is reversed in there. I don't know why toyota would think that's a good thing. Maybe for fumes like you said? That would be the reason the give you the ten second rule.
BUT, they are not telling you how to drain the tank, only to test the pump. To use the pump to drain the tank, do not reverse polarity. Maybe this is obvious and doesn't need to be said. But I think people might come away with the idea that the black wire is ground and go about their business without the books. If I'm wrong please say so, but there are no black grounds on a 100 in the wiring book. If in doubt check continuity to ground with each wire. There's your answer.

 

[flintknapper]

Hard to say. Bad gas is never good, but if run out fast, it's not much of an issue. In fact; I'll be running that old gas in other vehicles, as I'm not concerned as long as it doesn't sit. Run or burned up rather quickly with some water in fuel will not hurt, and may aid in decarbonizing. The fuel separating is not much issue either, provided mix with fresh, according to that earlier BP link on gas storage.

^^^^ If you read their statements carefully you will see that they are addressing an issue with fuel storage due to fuel 'evaporation' and not phase separation (water clinging to ethanol).

Additionally, they point out that fuel stored in a fuel tank has a storage life of one month. Then suggest that by adding 1/3 the amount of fuel with NEW fuel...that you can "extend" the life of the fuel. So...simple logic tells us if new fuel has 100% of the additives/component necessary for storage up to 30 days, then by blending/adding that mixture by 1/3 means you can 'extend' the fuel by 10 days. Which still doesn't address water that might have already separated and be present at the bottom of the tank.

From BP:

"Petrol in equipment tanks: The storage life of petrol in equipment fuel tanks is one month. This can be extended by topping up with one third of fresh fuel, which restores the volatile components that have evaporated. Topping up with fresh fuel will help, however it is not a foolproof strategy for engines that are used only intermittently.

The following principles may also help: > Keep the tank half full to stop water vapour from being sucked in and condensing. > Consider using a fuel that contains anti-oxidants, metal deactivators and corrosion inhibitors to protect metal surfaces; such as BP Ultimate. > Use a hotter spark plug to help to reduce carbon deposits."


Then consider...that for every 'glowing' claim a company makes about a product THEY produce, you can find a dozen studies to the contrary. Of course, its up to you to decide what to believe.

I believe, (given your circumstance) you did the right thing by removing any 'suspect' fuel from the tank.

 

[2001LC]

I think toyota uses that FSM procedure for a function test. Because obviously polarity is reversed in there. I don't know why toyota would think that's a good thing. Maybe for fumes like you said? That would be the reason the give you the ten second rule.
BUT, they are not telling you how to drain the tank, only to test the pump. To use the pump to drain the tank, do not reverse polarity. Maybe this is obvious and doesn't need to be said. But I think people might come away with the idea that the black wire is ground and go about their business without the books. If I'm wrong please say so, but there are no black grounds on a 100 in the wiring book. If in doubt check continuity to ground with each wire. There's your answer.

Jerry good point it is a test, FSM doesn't have procedure for draining tank that I could find. I've gone back and edited, also added a wiring diagram from a 2000 FSM, to help clear this up...I HOPE

The only wiring diagram I had is from a 2000, but pump test is same in all years.

So Jerry do you think connecting + to #5 and - to #4 on pump which is reverse of this test. That we can then run pump without fear of damage to it?
@Julian Stead I could use your input here as well.

2000 diagrams

 

[jerryb]

yes I do.
At the same time I also think it's possible to run it reverse, as long as there's no check valve and the fpr lets some by. But most likely will burn out in short order, immersed in fuel or not.
s***, lol. there's another discrepancy, book calls black wire pin 4. This is what happens with too much time to kill.
Go by colors and continuity. Trust, but verify.

 

[Julian Stead]

This is the correct wiring diagram, it is the same connections, 4 + and 5 -. It looks like toyota use this pump at two speeds, it either gets a feed through the resistor or direct depending on the relay position.

 

[abuck99]

^ so is the pump running constantly while the engine is running or phasing/pulsing on/off to maintain a certain line pressure? Just wondering.

 

[Julian Stead]

you could also remove the C/OPN relay and add a positive feed to pin 3. It would do the same thing.

 

[jerryb]

it runs constantly at two speeds, you can hear it with a non toyota pump.

 

[Julian Stead]

^ so is the pump running constantly while the engine is running or phasing/pulsing on/off to maintain a certain line pressure? Just wondering.

It would run constantly, the line pressure is regulated at the fuel rail, I am not sure what the two speeds would be for, I guess it either slows it down at idle or speeds it up under full throttle. You can see from the wiring diagram that they certainly use the relay to alter the voltage.

 

[jerryb]

you could also remove the C/OPN relay and add a positive feed to pin 3. It would do the same thing.

I thought this but then wondered if/when the efi gets +12, if only when the starter turns then there's another hoop to jump to make it run.
correct? never mind, I see what your saying.

 

[Julian Stead]

Just connect pin 3 to the battery, the fuel pump relay would be resting to give the pump the full 12v, without the resistor.

 

[Julian Stead]

Or do the same but at pin 4 at the F/Pump relay. Probably simpler to do this.

 

[Julian Stead]

Make a fly lead using a spade connector on one end to fit into the relay pin.

 

[Julian Stead]

Sorry but I haven't read all of the thread, but I am confused about the reverse running of the pump. What is the reason for doing this? And what is the reason for energising the pump now?

 

[2001LC]

Sorry but I haven't read all of the thread, but I am confused about the reverse running of the pump. What is the reason for doing this? And what is the reason for energising the pump now?

It's a test procedure for fuel pump at pump. I posted FSM page on this, along with pictures of wires at fuel pump and fuel pump disconnect. @jerryb pointed out FSM has us reverse polarity (- battery where black wire is on pump).

I ended up pulling fuel pump out of tank, to drain fuel tank completely. I did this rather than use fuel pump to drain for following reasons:

• Parked on hill and want to get every drop I could out fuel tank.
• Concerns with running pump for prolonged period at full speed on low tank (exposed fuel pump). In test FSM no longer than 10 seconds?? Do you know why??
• Unsure of which pin to jump in fuse box.
• Concern with shorting while jumping from battery in fuse box, damaging box, wiring or pump.
• Concern with creating a spark inch away from where I'd tap fuel line at fuel filter. (gasoline fumes under hood from disconnecting)

I was think it may be safer to jump at fuel disconnect under passenger door, and tap at fuel filter quick disconnect. Although jumping at fuse box is easiest access.

If you could post picture here of how to jump pump the ways you've done or like, that would be very cool. Feel free to use any pictures I've posted or ask for ones you'd like for editing, and I'll post them for you use!.

 

[Julian Stead]

I am not very good at editing photo's, I have never done it. If it is light outside when I am home at the weekend I will try and take some.

The basics of it is, try and get a pipe/hose from the fuel filter into a container, I have a variety of pipe fittings for a pressure test kit so it makes it easier, but I am sure a hose and a jubilee clip should do.

Next, remove the F/pump relay, you have two pins you can energize to get the pump running, pin 4 will give full speed, pin 5 goes through the resistor slowing the pump down.

Match pin 4 or 5 from the relay to the slot on the fuse box, use a spade connector the correct size to push into the slot, again I have a tool, a probe tester that connects to the battery and with a flick of a switch I can give a positive or negative from the battery to the probe tip, I would then put the probe into the spade connector, flick the switch to positive and this sends the voltage from the fusebox down to the pump. You could make a lead with a inline switch and fuse to achieve the same thing, just clamp it on the positive side of the battery.

Make sure the hose is long enough to reach the container in a way that the container is secure and not balancing on anything, preferably on the floor.

I used to use a gallon container and would keep emptying it into a large tank that was outside in a fenced off area. This would give the pump a rest and would also limit the amount of fuel inside the building. Health and Safety wouldn't allow us to store fuel inside for obvious reasons. My old boss burnt his workshop down with a washing up liquid bottle full of gasoline, he used to use it to light the workshop fire, when squirting the flame tracked back up to the bottle, he threw it away, the bottle melted and the fire spread to the parts wash, goodnight building.

 

[jerryb]

I said there aren't any black grounds, as in earth ground. All black wires are not necessarily +. I only meant in that instance, about the pump and the BB1 connector.
I've not found a black ground, they are all brown or white/black.