Builds dougbert's future 350 swap: How much torque is too much?

[ntsqd]

I would add an O2 sensor with an AFR gauge too. Makes knowing where you are with the jetting not longer a guessing and/or plug reading game. Doesn't have to be permanent. MISF, who about as curmudgeonly as they come, was just yesterday praising his repeatedly.

 

[norsk]

actually I have had an O2 sensor on the rig.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innovate-standalone-gauge-kit-lc2-blue-db-gauge-3795-p-153.html

installed it as I was starting to add TBI to the 2F, but stopped the project when I decided to go SBC.

Gauge is already installed, just need to have a bung installed when I do the new SBC exhaust. It was amazing to watch that gauge with 2F carb adjustments, pushing the pedal down or letting it up etc.

I might even play with TBI in the future, as I have all the sensors and the Microsquirt controller. I just have not done anything that would preclude going TBI on the SBC

and thx for the suggestion

dougbert

 

[ntsqd]

It's the same thread as the large threaded spark-plugs. It's 18mm, just not sure of the pitch - maybe 1.5? I've made O2 sensor bungs from one of those "anti-fouling" spark-plug adapters and they work but they're not the best answer. The one on my DD is a simple metric nut that my local hardware store stocks in an unplated version specifically for this use (owner is a hot rodder). FWIW a couple hours in white vinegar will remove any plating should that bother you to weld on.

 

[norsk]

COOLING FAN:

Well, this morning I received the used 7 blade chevy fan and clutch I bought for $50 + SH from ebay

19" diameter and 3.5" in depth. Should move the air. While the clutch lasts, I think it is a good deal. New a fan and clutch was going to be $210

Back view:

Depth view, measures 3.5 inches

Front view:

Needs some clean up and painting but it looks good.

Looking at JohninFla's measurement below with his FJ60 and his install of a Ranger overdrive behind a chevy block

It looks like I have abt 11-1/2" inches between the end of the head and the radiator.

Measuring from my head to the end of the water pump face is just a bit less than 7 inches. Add to that the depth of the fan/clutch of 3.5 inches gives abt 10.5 inches with around 1 inch space between the fan and the radiator. I see it will be close. Won't be sure until it is all mounted

FUEL PUMP:

Earlier I posted I got a Carter M6626 fuel pump, which fits various GM vehicles from the mid to late 70s, and it has a fuel return line.

I have been looking for an adapter for the pump outlet and FINALLY found one at Jegs. The outlet is a 5/8" Threaded inverted flare. The adapter converts it to a -6 AN male.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Russell/799/640380/10002/-1

With this installed, I can put in the braided line connected to a fuel pressure gauge between the pump and the carb

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

That looks like an aftermarket fan clutch...I would buy GM fan clutch when you swap it out. I've always had good service out of a GM HEI distributor..I use to have a little hot-rod back in the 80's. I'm betting a stock type setup for the quadrajet would work very well and the carb would not require any serious mods to make it run well, quadrajets are pretty much bullet proof once setup, I think they are great carbs until you get into the really crazy hp/torque monsters...engines.

 

[norsk]

I think the clutch is aftermarkert too. That is okay, if it works awhile and then dies, I can get the GM version for $113 from the link in post #1.
The HEI I got is also an aftermarket and not that good of one IMHO.

Cluff Riggles has tuned his Q-Jet well on his 600 hp 1974 Ventura



his is Mr Quadrajet

 

[norsk]

Got the front axle primed and painted, along with the firewall. Also took out the windshield, but saved the gasket, to look at the rust on the cowl. Got 5 places that need to be removed and fixed with some "new" sheet metal from a donor.

dougbert

 

[norsk]

okay, I mocked up the fan/clutch onto the WP on the engine.

I have measured from the block face of the WP to the front edge of the clutch (which is the furtherest from the engine).

It measures exactly 10.0" - from WP block face to front of fan AND
11" from my HEAD front face to the clutch front face.

JohninFla, can you measure from your WP face on the block to the front of your fan?

I keep pondering this trying to ensure it will fit, just so I know.

thanks

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Doug
I think you have trouble.
From the face on the block, where the water pump bolts, to the front edge of my aftermarket fan, (I think I sent part numbers already), is 9 3/4 and from the water pump face to the radiator is 10 3/4.
I have a short water pump, from the face of the block to the end of the water pump looks like ~6 3/4 -7 inches, (I can't see the tape close enough to tell.)
I had a stock chevy fan and clutch ready to put on there, (it was on there, actually), and then tried to put the radiator in and it didn't work.
Holler if you need more?
John

 

[norsk]

maybe the Mark VIII electric fan might be useful after all

a LWP is 7"

With my Comp CAMS timing chain cover, I can ONLY use a Long WP.

It has been some great tuition, but electric looks to be my path with an enhanced Radiator

with a thousand thanks man

dougbert

 

[JohninFla]

Or the mercury tracer v6 fans

Dorman part number 620-104 $100 brand new

Get a SPAL controller or equal for another $150

That is my plan for when I add he a/c

John

 

[Elbert]

with a v8....you are better served to use GM fan and GM fan clutch. I doubt you have enough room to run that water pump and fan assembly depending on where your engine sits relative to your radiator core. Assume you plan to figure out a solution for a fan shroud.

 

[norsk]

Exactly this has been one of my options: (but would use the Dakota Digital controller)

$101: Contour FAN http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C17G9K/?tag=ihco-20
$114: Electric fan controller http://www.dakotadigital.com/index....ategory_id=-1/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd852.htm See Better price on EBAY
$17: Pelican case for FAN Controller http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OF5TII/?tag=ihco-20

I do have the Mark VIII fan now, so all I need is the above fan controller (I like how it programs - being a software geek myself) and the case for protection. Install it and run it and test. If the Mark VIII doesn't work, then I can get the Dorman from amazon for another test

Will wait until I get the engine INTO the rig and do actual measurement.

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

I've seen a spal fan controller go up in smoke (one I personally owned)... another guy on here had one catch fire. I like the SPAL electric fans...but their controller's seem to be questionable.

 

[norsk]

Can't change the Water pump, that is the ONLY option I have
Can't move the motor back, as the rear tranny mount connects in the OEM position, and the drive lines stay the same.

fan shroud will be fab'd by the Cruiser barn "staff"

I guess I could mod the radiator support somehow and move the radiator FORWARD - is that possible?
Could go GM radiator (wider) and do that mod with electrics.

Again will get the motor mounted in the rig and go from there.

thanks

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

I had the dual fan setup from a v6 ford contour as well...I ended up using one of the SPAL fan controller switches that cuts the fans on at a predetermiend temp and its none adjustable, used in conjunction with spal fan relay harneess and you can get some ford or motorcraft jumper harness from rock auto or other source that make it easy to connect fan. You shoudld read up on people with v8's and cooling before you jump off into the electric fan business..."my view"...

 

[norsk]

yeah, I have been reading them for some time (including yours), and due to that research I did go with the mech fan approach, but I missed the fact that my reference rigs (JohninFla and Alask60) both used short WPs. Those 2 also have the Ranger Torque splitter installed, as I have planned and was using them for a common pattern. I do have the RockAuto connectors (referenced from your thread) for the Contours already in my hands - they were cheap so I got them.

The Dakota Digital fan controller has programmable cut ins for dual speed fan or a set of dual fans. Plus some other good options. Someone had a good write up on that. Several guys at the Cruiser Barn have installed electric fans due to just no room for a mech fan, but they did put in good radiators, though I don't remember the mfg/model. And Alask60 has fab'd some great shrouds for them on their V8s.

dougbert

 

[Elbert]

I would go with the dakota digital controller. I've looked at it on their web site and it looks like a good item. While its a pain...even some of the electric fans do not offer you that much clearance due to their large motors. For example a large SPAL 16 fan has to be offset from the water pump due to clearance issues (or at least on my truck). I did not end up following through with that due to problems with the spal controller and some issues with the shroud I was using at the time. Like I mentioned previously...there are a number of setups on the 5.7 across the various year models...if you mix and match its going to be painful. I do belive that most run a short water pump. The pulleys, the brackets, the belts, the water pump, the fan clutch all have to be in the same year area or from the same configuration...if not..you will play hell getting everything to line up and the right belts etc.

I would set the engine back some from the radiator, and allowing a reasonable gap between the firewall and the rear of the block. Mine setup uses stock location for the trans mounts and driveline due to the marks adapter I have (which I will not use in any future swaps I do)...at the time it was just what I ended up using.

Spal make I know two dual fan setups, but the dual fan setup on teh ford contour v6 is a pretty easy thing to do. But you'll have to see what it does with the A/C running at night in the hot summer in 4wd climbing a steep grade or stressing teh engine under load... once you temps start to climb with the setup you better stop because the cooling is already at max performance...

What I like about SPAL.. their line of electric fans, their fan wiring relay harnesses, and their simple switch to control fans. What not to like...their fan controller (read the fine print on amps that it can manage and can it mange to control two fans of reasonable amp draw).

I would make every effort to stay the course with GM fan and matching fan clutch. You can change the timing chain and or the large cover..unless that relates to a cam button. Many stories on problems cooling with V8's... also more than a few relating the solution in teh real world points to GM FAN and matching fan clutch. I tried various solutions as well, when you get off road and you need cooling plus you need the winch and then you factor in stress / load on the engine etc and maybe A/C would be nice , my experience was the electric fans did not work well enough for me.

I think I read where a guy installed some new flex-a-lite fan on some vehicle (I don't remember if it was a LC or 4runner or tacoma) . If you have anyone close to you in the local LC club who has a v8 check out what they are doing...and get some real world experience. I noticed that some of the people who posted about electirc fans have no a/c and never drive offroad...

 

[Elbert]

I don't like them but a "fixed" fan might be a solution... ie using a fixed blade fan without a fan clutch. Very noisy and can be a power drain, but probably workable in tight spaces. Like you said ...its most likely all talk until you get the engine installed and see what kind of room you end up with.

 

[JohninFla]

That is what I ended up doing