Don't swap the Med for Heavy OEM Springs

[hobbes]

That's funny. My experience awhile ago was just the opposite. I remember there being a worse ride with the heavies. I still have them in my garage (and a stink bug stance). I might toss them back on to verify the effect.

 

[Grench]

I go back and forth between three vehicles. FZJ80 on heavy OME, FZJ80 on stock and a Camaro Z28. The stock FZJ80 feels boat like. The OME heavy FZJ80 feels the bumps, but isn't nearly as harsh as the Z28 can be. Of course neither truck can touch the Z28 for acceleration or road grip.

I found the Heavies to be a good compromise. A 'good' ride depends on your perspective. The OME heavy -is- a more truck like ride. Going back and forth makes the stock springs truck feel squishy.

 

[zukatude]

Tools is right on - buying OME 2.5 and 33's is buying your next yard sale. Go straight to 35's - it takes very little extra lift and is a huge step up.

OME medium/heavisat 220 lb/in spring rate, BTW. J's are 220 front, 250 rear.

IMO that depends on what you do with the truck. I like modest family wheeling with the 80, but tow my hard core rig for the more difficult trails.

Have you tried towing something up Vail pass with 35's and stock 4.10 gears?

It's slow enough (40mph) with stock tires. 35's would be miserable

 

[Supercell]

Sorry to resurrect old issues.

In the process of ordering my OME 2.5 Medium kit today I was steered in the direction of the Heavies (850s) for the front, even though I'm stock bumper up there and really don't foresee a winch in my future. Was told the 850s rode a bit more firm at first, but that they tend to loosen up a bit and that they make the on-road handling better - ie less drift, better tracking and less bobble on unevenly paved surfaces compared to the 851s.

Ultimately, opted for the Mediums. Thoughts?

 

[Romer]

Sorry to resurrect old issues.

In the process of ordering my OME 2.5 Medium kit today I was steered in the direction of the Heavies (850s) for the front, even though I'm stock bumper up there and really don't foresee a winch in my future. Was told the 850s rode a bit more firm at first, but that they tend to loosen up a bit and that they make the on-road handling better - ie less drift, better tracking and less bobble on unevenly paved surfaces compared to the 851s.

Ultimately, opted for the Mediums. Thoughts?

If you plan to build it, you may want to go with the heavies. I have since swapped the medium for J springs. I think for a while, I had the 863 hevaies in the rear because of my storage drawers. I have had the J's for about 4 years, but I have a lot of toys.

If you plan on going bumpers and sliders, soon, heavies may be better. This thread was if you already had mediums, you could add spacers rather than swap.

 

[Nomad one]

I went through this same issue- went with the OME mediums with the 1" trim packer for the front from Slee. Total front lift was 2 1/2". the rear was about 31/4". I do not like the stink bug look.
I now have the 850j in front, two things happened, the front raised and the back rasied another 1/4" after the installation. I like the ride and the stance with the 850j. The only weight on my truck is Slee Sliders.
As for the discussion of the differences in the springs- if you have two coil splrings of the same overall diameter, same thickness or gage of coil, but two different lengths, the longer spring will be softer/ less rate.
A coil spring is nothing more than a torsion bar rolled up- if you had a 24" x 3/4" diameter torsion bar and a 48" x 3/4" diameter torsion bar and you applied the same force to each of them, which would move the most? The 48" x 3/4" diameter.
Granted, we are talking 1" in length- not much diff- I think the number of coils is the same between the two springs, but if the coil pitch or the number of active coils change the overall spring rate would change. Active coils do not include the top or bottom coils.

I think the shocks make a bigger difference in the ride then these springs.

 

[julstirn]

So maybe my simple mind cant grasp this but read this whole thread and am wondering what outcome is? Is it same thing to add spacers or if you are adding weight just go ahead and suck it up and get heavies?

 

[Romer]

So maybe my simple mind cant grasp this but read this whole thread and am wondering what outcome is? Is it same thing to add spacers or if you are adding weight just go ahead and suck it up and get heavies?

So 5 years after I started this thread I am running OME J Springs

I started with the mediums. When I got the set of storage drawers and a front winch, it sagged a bit. I put spacers on the front and I did go heavies in the rear because of the weight of the rear bumper and loaded storage box

Then I added more weight in a supercharger, rear aux fuel tank and also 35" tires

I went with J springs to get added lift for the tires, L shocks, extended brake lines etc. But that was for the larger tires

I guess the point is if your making sutle changes you can add spacers without having to swap to larger springs right away. BUT as a lesson learned to augment this thread, the design allows for easy swapping of the springs.

There is a point where adding spacers reduces the compression capability and you need to go with better springs

This thread was written AFTER I already had the mediums and I added a little weight which reduced my lift a bit. The spacers provided the lift back.

Had I not already had mediums, Bigger Springs to start off with might have been better, BUT when you start with too much lift you end up having all kinds of problems that you had to spend tons of money to fix

For example, had I started with J's, My driveshaft angle would have forced me to go dbl cardon drive shaft, new control arms to fix castor, etc.

Since I slowly built up my rig, I never had to fix those issues and I have a nicely built truck I am very happy with.

It's all a balance and where you want to end up with your vehicle

It's kind of interesting reading stuff you wrote 5 years ago and wondering what you would do then if you knew what you do now.

If I had the money 5 years ago, I would have done the bumpers, sliders and gone for the 4" lift from Slee with all the other required mods

At that point in my life, it was harder to get things by the and so I had to do my build-up slower than I wanted.

I hope that long drawn out discussion healped with your confusion

 

[julstirn]

Well I bought the lift used and it was medium 2.5, I got the go ahead to sink more money into the truck after she realized it was awesome, so I already ordered skid from iron pig and am getn an ARB bumper, some lights and sliders next week or two. I am running 315 Duratracs. Bumper will eventually be 4x4labs in rear with fullsize spare and most definetely building rear drawer system in back. I dont mind not being too tall, I am just thinking too much weight for medium. Shocks are shot too on my used kit so I was thinking suck it up and get heavy kit with L's? I want to put on 1inch body lift for little more height and clearance underneath. This will give me like 3.5 inches and tire lift then keep me in the clear for caster right?

 

[Grench]

While we're updating the thread...

I still have the FZJ80 on OME heavy 2.5".

The didn't like the squishy feel of the stock suspension on her truck either when compared to the heavy 2.5" on mine - but did not want the lift. I put an OME heavy stock height kit from Slee on it a few years ago and she's been thrilled with it ever since. This truck has no added weight - it does soccer mom duty mostly - and it isn't too harsh. It feels more like the truck that it is, but it handles a lot better than the squishy stock setup.

Somewhere in the process of all of this I found...

The stock springs on a 1992 FJ80 sit about 1" higher than the stock springs on a 1996 FZJ80. The 1992 springs are also considerably stiffer. The OME stock height heavy kit raises the 1996 up to about where the 1992 sat (got the inch back) and made the 1996 ride more like the 1992 did (better).

From driving a 1996 Lexus - it seems that the Lexus springs are even softer and another half inch shorter than the 1996 FZJ80 (stock) springs. Easily fixed with an OME kit or other.

I also drove an early FOR kit with 4" springs. A bit taller than the OME 2.5" heavy kit - but very soft with a fair amount of roll. Felt somewhere between the stock 1996 and the OME 2.5 heavy for ride.

Opinions will always vary - I'm happy with the 2.5" heavy and stock height heavy suspensions that I have on mine and my 's trucks.

Mine has about 1000 lbs of stuff hanging off of it. Her's has no additional upgrades. They drive fairly similar.

IMHO YMMV

 

[julstirn]

I think I will go with heavy and my 1" body lift. More than enough weight capacity and height there. L' shocks with it.

 

[Grench]

I think I will go with heavy and my 1" body lift. More than enough weight capacity and height there. L' shocks with it.

Where are you getting the 1" body lift?

 

[Ebag333]

Where are you getting the 1" body lift?

Cheapest way is to source the UHMW from Grainger or somewhere similar. Prolly $30 or less if you can get a couple people to go in with you so you don't have to buy 3' of UHMW just for yourself.

 

[Hayes]

I think I will go with heavy and my 1" body lift. More than enough weight capacity and height there. L' shocks with it.

That's exactly what I'm running:
OME 850/863 and a 1" body lift. I've also got 0.5 inch spacers on the coils.
I'm clearing 315/75R16 MTR Kevlars on the factory wheels with only superficial rubbing. That's with factory bump stops and fender flares.

I'm running standard OME shocks.

L shocks won't do anything for you with the 850/863 springs. In fact, you'll likely end up losing total travel if you have to space down the bumpstops to accommodate the shocks (debatable).

 

[julstirn]

Hmmm, I will think some more about the shocks then, I just figured with a body lift there be room for the L's a little bit more and they could be put to better use. I was thinking when it came to the body lift I was going to go with 4crawler's body lift, seems to be very thorough and have never heard bad about him.

 

[Ebag333]

The 4 crawler body lift is a great way to go. Reasonably priced, though more than DIY.

I would personally go with the L's, you should be fine unless you're running stock sized tires.

FYI, the body lift won't affect the shock you can put in (or at least it affects it so little it's not worth counting).

 

[Tools R Us]

...
L shocks won't do anything for you with the 850/863 springs. In fact, you'll likely end up losing total travel if you have to space down the bumpstops to accommodate the shocks (debatable).

Not debatable, L shocks with properly setup stops will add ~2" of travel. If the extra travel is beneficial for the way the rig is used or not is debatable. I find the extra travel to be beneficial, have run L's with heavies and J's.

 

[snowcamo80]

Not debatable, L shocks with properly setup stops will add ~2" of travel. If the extra travel is beneficial for the way the rig is used or not is debatable. I find the extra travel to be beneficial, have run L's with heavies and J's.

Kevin, can you please post the suspension specs (springs, shocks, bumpstops, caster correction, etc) of your truck. I would like to go the J springs route and would like to emulate your setup. Thanks.

 

[Hayes]

Not debatable, L shocks with properly setup stops will add ~2" of travel. If the extra travel is beneficial for the way the rig is used or not is debatable. I find the extra travel to be beneficial, have run L's with heavies and J's.

I realize that there is extra travel in the L shock, but the L-shocks were not designed to be used with the 850/863 coils--these coils are too short. J springs, sure. On the rear with L shocks and 863 coils, the coils might get a little loose at full droop.

Up on the front axle, I think the extra on-the-ground travel to be gained from running L's is debatable--that front axle only flexes so far.

 

[Ebag333]

I realize that there is extra travel in the L shock, but the L-shocks were not designed to be used with the 850/863 coils--these coils are too short. J springs, sure. On the rear with L shocks and 863 coils, the coils might get a little loose at full droop.

The standard shocks and L shocks were designed to be very much on the safe side. For most people, there is plenty of room.

With 35" tires and stock length bumpstops you should have around 16" of room for compression (front and rear). The standard OME's are only 13.57"/14.57" front/rear, which means you have 1.5" or 2.5" of unused travel, easily enough to fit L's without needing to drop the bump stops.

The OME's were designed with stock tires in mind, which would give you around 14" of compression. So if you're running stock tires then you would have to drop the bump stops with the L's. But for those of us running 33's or 35's (or bigger), you don't really need to drop the bump stops to fit them. So not only do you get 2" more extension, but the total range is more appropriate to what we can actually use, without all that wasted up travel.

Up on the front axle, I think the extra on-the-ground travel to be gained from running L's is debatable--that front axle only flexes so far.

This is true, but with the short OME's the limit is absolutely the shock length, not the suspension/linkage binding.

There are people running 14" travel shocks in the front and they get most (if not all) of the travel out of them. They might do a few things to improve the flex (hitch pin, disconnected sway bar), but there's a lot more flex in the front end than the standard OME's allow.

Really the standard OME's make the front end worse. Not only does the front end not want to flex, but it is heavily limited in the amount of flex it has. This forces the back end to have to do a lot more work.