Don't swap the Med for Heavy OEM Springs

[Hayes]

Still don't understand the general dissatisfaction with 805/863.
My 80 doesn't have much stinkbug at all, and I'm still running the stock rear bumper. Check my ROTW.

J's up front would just make you more likely to run into caster problems, eh?

Hayes

 

[dmc]

Still don't understand the general dissatisfaction with 805/863.
My 80 doesn't have much stinkbug at all, and I'm still running the stock rear bumper. Check my ROTW.

J's up front would just make you more likely to run into caster problems, eh?

Hayes

Hayes,

Mine had a bad stinkbug. I have the castor correction bushings and the truck tracked great. J's and spacers have created a need for some plates. However with front J's and bushings the truck handled just fine.
dmc

 

[e9999]

seems like you have a choice to make:
- stinkbug empty but level when loaded
- level empty but droopy butt when loaded
- level empty and level loaded with springs so hard your spine fuses when driving
- any compromise in between
But there is no magic here with simple OME springs that would do it all, apparently. Airbags are one way.

Take your pic based on your preferences and needs.

 

[MoJ]

Bear in mind that the extra drop costs you compression and the net total travel remains about the same.

Dan - thanks for saving me some money by making that point.


Sometimes he giveth, sometime times he taketh away. :hillbilly

 

[GeoRoss]

seems like you have a choice to make:
- stinkbug empty but level when loaded
- level empty but droopy butt when loaded
- level empty and level loaded with springs so hard your spine fuses when driving
- any compromise in between
But there is no magic here with simple OME springs that would do it all, apparently. Airbags are one way.

Take your pic based on your preferences and needs.

I have loaded >400llbs on my 864's and see negligible deflection. Before I added spacers I had terrible stinkbug, now I have maybe 1/4"-1/2" completely unloaded. I can't see the stinkbug now and I can't see the opposite when loaded.

As to spine fusing jar, I spend the majority of my time on gravel/washboard roads. It rides like a truck, but my spine is quite happy. Maybe the other set ups are softer on the spine, maybe not. I do know that it is so much better than w/ the OEM, I don't seem to every get to that destructive harmonic rate anymore where the truck was going to vibrate itself to oblivion.

You are right, depends on what you like.

Ross

 

[Baran]

If you run 2.5" lift & mediums with stock or close to stock weight and then add a ARB and a winch will you have total stink bug effect? If you cure this with spacers on the front coils dose that in turn require further caster correction beyond the replacement bushing supplied with Slee's medium kit?

Asked another way, dose Slee have different caster bushing sent with the mediums than with the heavy colis?

If your not sure how your suspension will endup being in the end is a double cardan something one should consider in kind of a strike first mentality?

 

[Tools R Us]

If you run 2.5" lift & mediums with stock or close to stock weight and then add a ARB and a winch will you have total stink bug effect? If you cure this with spacers on the front coils dose that in turn require further caster correction beyond the replacement bushing supplied with Slee's medium kit?

Asked another way, dose Slee have different caster bushing sent with the mediums than with the heavy colis?

If your not sure how your suspension will endup being in the end is a double cardan something one should consider in kind of a strike first mentality?

Caster correction is dependent on ride hight. The OME bushings for example are made to correct ~2.5" of lift over stock. Ride height is determined by springs and weight, if you lift to 2.5", weight it down, then raise it back to 2.5" by whatever method, springs, spacers, etc. the caster correction needed stays the same. There is some leeway, some trucks/drivers need/like more caster, some get away with less.

The DC shaft comes into play when the diff pinion points at the transfer flange within a couple of degrees. On the 80 that is usually happens with about 5-7" of lift with properly corrected caster. Running a DC shaft without the proper angles can cause as bad of vibes as a stock one running outside of it's angle range, DC shafts aren't magic.

 

[Tools R Us]

If you run 2.5" lift & mediums with stock or close to stock weight and then add a ARB and a winch will you have total stink bug effect? ...

OME kits are designed for extra load capacity in the rear, so the rear springs are taller. If you plan to add weight more evenly front and rear buy a mixed kit, med rear/heavy front ~2.5" lift, heavy/J ~3.5" for a closer to level stance. lift numbers are close and depend on the truck weight. OME springs average ~240 lbs per inch of compression, so if you plan to add ~500lb over one axle it will lower that end of the truck about 1". It's not exact, other stuff like bushing spring rate. etc come into play, but is a good rule of thumb, starting point.

A truck at stock weight with med rear/heavy front springs and a truck with heavy/J springs with ~1000lb of extra weight evenly distributed would sit at close the same ride height. If the roll down the highway at the same ride height, they need the same caster correction.

 

[Baran]

Caster correction is dependent on ride hight. The OME bushings for example are made to correct ~2.5" of lift over stock. Ride height is determined by springs and weight, if you lift to 2.5", weight it down, then raise it back to 2.5" by whatever method, springs, spacers, etc. the caster correction needed stays the same. There is some leeway, some trucks/drivers need/like more caster, some get away with less.

Ok so I have a stock rig with damage mulitplyer and yakima cross bars and 2 bike racks... I was just planing on going with thw 2.5 " kit and meduim coils front and rear...I would perfer not to have to shuffel coils though so dose the brush guard add enough weight to go with heavy coils on the front for now untill I can get funds for the ARB?

Thanks for the info on the caster correction.

 

[Tools R Us]

Ok so I have a stock rig with damage mulitplyer and yakima cross bars and 2 bike racks... I was just planing on going with thw 2.5 " kit and meduim coils front and rear...I would perfer not to have to shuffel coils though so dose the brush guard add enough weight to go with heavy coils on the front for now untill I can get funds for the ARB?

Thanks for the info on the caster correction.

The med rear/heavy front will set more level and don't see an issue with running it on a stock truck. Give Kurt @ cruiseroutfitters.com a call, he has done a bunch of mixed spring trucks and may have stuff coming to AZ for other CSC members saving you some freight?

 

[fzj80kidpen]

Baran,
You should start your own thread if are serious about a lift.
Your sig says fully loaded. Be explicit and include your intended use as far as rock crawling, expedition, mall cruising etc.

Search on "Castor Correction" and plenty of threads will show you has been done.

 

[e9999]

Baran,
You should start your own thread if are serious about a lift.
Your sig says fully loaded. Be explicit and include your intended use as far as rock crawling, expedition, mall cruising etc.

Search on "Castor Correction" and plenty of threads will show you has been done.

that'll get you quite a few, but try searching for "caster correction" as well while you're at it...

 

[Baran]

Baran,
You should start your own thread if are serious about a lift.
Your sig says fully loaded.

Sorry for the partial hijack but the springs and setups that are being discussed are in my sights to purchase so just trying to figure how it relates my future plans. Again sorry.

By "fully loaded" I meant more that it came fully loaded from the factory (leather heated seats, power everything, even came with a flip down 10" LCD DVD player for the rear, God knows I can't live with out that ) not fully modded, thats my job. sorry for the confusion. Guess I will change it to fully factory loaded?

 

[Tools R Us]

The "universal" info on the forum is good for caster correction tech, etc, but some lift/tire info doesn't work well in our terrain. Seek local info before spending your $$$, talk to some of the locals that wheel, Maddbaggins, GeoRoss, Shotts, etc and/or spend a day on the trail with them.

If you come to a PHX CSC meet you will see that the most common setup is J's+ springs and 315's+ tires with good reason. Most of the trails in AZ are in and out of washes and the best time to tour them is shortly after a rain. In those conditions the wash edges get undercut and sand scoured out around the rocks making for lots of steps to slide off and climb. A little larger tire and more clearance under the truck, makes life much easier.

You will see lots of A/T tires, they work very well in our sandy terrain and loads of Nitto's, they have proven to work well in the desert, never seen one cut on the trail and ride well on the highway.

Seen it way too many times, a newbie gets a truck reads the forum, puts on the 2.5" and 285's. Wheels it and shortly gets tired of dragging the underside over everything and has nice sets of slightly used springs and tires to sell to finance the "upgrade"! My minimum setup for back roads AZ touring is heavy rears with L shocks, J fronts and 315's.

 

[Nay]

Tools is right on - buying OME 2.5 and 33's is buying your next yard sale. Go straight to 35's - it takes very little extra lift and is a huge step up.

OME medium/heavisat 220 lb/in spring rate, BTW. J's are 220 front, 250 rear.

 

[GeoRoss]

Seen it way too many times, a newbie gets a truck reads the forum, puts on the 2.5" and 285's. Wheels it and shortly gets tired of dragging the underside over everything and has nice sets of slightly used springs and tires to sell to finance the "upgrade"! My minimum setup for back roads AZ touring is heavy rears with L shocks, J fronts and 315's.

Hey, are you talking about me again?


Baran, think long and hard about what your goals are. I will say that what Kevin says is true, but sometimes it is better to let your truck evolve as you dial in what you want to do as your driving preferences change.

I will say that I am now cruising craigslist for a set of 35"s and how to lift it to make it all work.

Even knowing that, I will say that bang for buck kind of thinking, there is nothing wrong with getting 33" tires and a 2.5" lift, but Kevin is telling you the truth. You will be better served saving your pennies and buying bits and pieces as you can. Realize, going higher than 2.5" introduces other issues including easy caster angles, potential drive line angle issues, dealing with bumpstomps, etc. These things intimidated me in the past, now not so much.

You really need to think about what your goals are, but it is ok for goals to change as you learn more too. The only problem being money spent. Who knows, maybe a 2.5" lift is perfect for you.


Ross

 

[Baran]

Thanks guys! Can't wait to meet up with some of you guys.

I don't mind saving cash for the right setup. I've got $2K comming think I will try to get around $5K and do it once and do it right.

again sorry everyone for the subject change really did not mean to derail the thread.

 

[Romer]

Wow, this is an old thread. I have since upgraded to J's based on all the toys I am carrying. At the time I just had a few toys and the spacers helped me skip one step in springs.

Baran, have you read the thread in the modifications section on OME lifts? Go to the thread near the top titled "FAQ for 80/LX450 series and scroll down to the modifications section

 

[Martin White]

My experience going from 851's to 850's on the front only: no difference noticeable in ride. I also added spacers to correct my forward lean. Granted I have a diesel and heavy JDM steel tube bumper.

 

[Grench]

May as well add it. Old thread and all, but it -is- possible to be happy with 2.5" and 285s. I'm 8 hours from anywhere interesting. Even on a wheeling trip, I spend more time driving down the highway than I ever do on the trail. So, this is a compromise that has worked well for me. For perspective, my last trip was to Land Between the Lakes, KY - 650 miles each way. 10 hours there, 2 days on the trail / camping, 10 hours back. 4 day trip.

My truck is on an 850/863 OME no packers suspension. Goodyear MTR 285/75 R16. Dual D31a Optimas, ARB & Warn M12K on the front, heavy sliders, Slee rear bumper w/ carrier, 24 gallon aux tank. Those are the heavy bits.

The truck does stink bug a bit when empty. When fully loaded with my tools and cooler and camping gear it flattens out about right. It clears my garage door by 0.5" when empty, by 1.5" when fully loaded and fueled.

It is agressive enough to 'go places' but still maintains decent road manners. I see more mud holes and slime track trails than rocks, and underbody clearance hasn't been much of an issue for me yet.

Some day when the 285s wear out I might move up a step in tire size, but I fully intend to keep the suspension at the height it is. I won't do it unless I regear first. If I do it, I'll count on cutting stuff out of the way until it doesn't rub. The MTRs have a few years left on them, so this is an idle thought for now.

It -is- possible to be perfectly content with heavy/heavy and 285s. It makes a substantial difference from stock spring height and they are stiff enough that they made the cornering -feel- better despite the height. It has been working very well for me. As always, YMMV.