DIY Tundra Brakes (BBK) (1 Viewer)

[doru]

I read this whole thread tonight and I have a dumb question. Why wouldn’t you use a m14 to m12 thread reducer in the 2016+ caliper and skip enlarging the holes in the spindle?

It is not a dumb idea at all.

It is often used with aluminum calipers that have stripped threads using inserts not for switching thread size but just to fix the thread. Aluminum calipers are notorious for seized bolts that when removed completely destroy the caliper thread.
Search for Helicoil Big-Sert. There is also a lighter version.
Helicoil is a trusted brand used to fix all kind of threads from engine heads to common utilitarian threads. Properly installed with the right tools it will last better than the original. They are available in carbon and stainless steel.

The issue with the adapter is how is the adapter secured inside the caliper. One solution is to use very high strength thread locker for vibrating assemblies and torque it to specs - you actually overtorque it because of the thread locker. Another idea is to weld it on the back. I think both solutions will cut muster.

But the more assemblies you add the more points of failure you add. Drilling is such an easy and cheap job that is the preferred solution here.

 

[doru]

Here's a pic

 

[FxFormat]

Buy the right bit, do it right or do it twice.

Takes 1 minute each side at most, to bore the hole out. Don't cut corners when it comes to brakes, esp if you're trying to stop 6000lbs going downhill

 

[bloc]

Here's a pic

View attachment 3337017

Is that of an M12 to M14? Only 1mm of wall thickness, and out of that will have to be cut threads that aren’t the same pitch.

Very different thing than a helicoil or time-sert / etc

 

[doru]

No, that pic is a Big-Sert Helicoil. Most people are used with the lighter Helicoils that look like a spring, like this:

The Big-Sert has different outside threads specific designed for that application. Here is some tech data for M12 ++ TIME-SERT Enginerring Data BIG-SERT ++ - https://www.timesert.com/html/engineeringdataBS.html. It requires drilling the M14 holes in the caliper to 37/64 (14.68mm) and then tapping them to .634".

As I said it is not that the solution is not good, it's that it is more complex (you need to drill to size, then thread with the special tap for the insert, then install the insert with a special tool that is locking the insert in), more expensive (if you buy the tools or pay someone to do it) and takes more time.

The Helicoil is a properly engineered solution but why bother when you can just drill the knuckle. There are applications where Helicoil is the only solution, but this is not one of them.

An adapter is not really a proper engineered solution as you have the problem of locking it in place.

 

[FxFormat]

If you don't want to drill the hole out, just get 2007-2015 Tundra calipers, they have the same size holes. Not sure if there's anything different on the 2016+ other than the larger ear holes.

 

[lx200inAR]

If you don't want to drill the hole out, just get 2007-2015 Tundra calipers, they have the same size holes. Not sure if there's anything different on the 2016+ other than the larger ear holes.

If you go that route you have to adapt the brake lines.

 

[kms254]

It is not a dumb idea at all.

It is often used with aluminum calipers that have stripped threads using inserts not for switching thread size but just to fix the thread. Aluminum calipers are notorious for seized bolts that when removed completely destroy the caliper thread.
Search for Helicoil Big-Sert. There is also a lighter version.
Helicoil is a trusted brand used to fix all kind of threads from engine heads to common utilitarian threads. Properly installed with the right tools it will last better than the original. They are available in carbon and stainless steel.

The issue with the adapter is how is the adapter secured inside the caliper. One solution is to use very high strength thread locker for vibrating assemblies and torque it to specs - you actually overtorque it because of the thread locker. Another idea is to weld it on the back. I think both solutions will cut muster.

But the more assemblies you add the more points of failure you add. Drilling is such an easy and cheap job that is the preferred solution here.

The m14 to m12 Big-Sert was exactly what I was looking at, your uses cases also align with my view. My understanding of the big-Sert is it actually expands when you run the bolt into it further setting it into the host metal.

Most of the forces are in sheer too.

My thought here was the caliper is cheaper and easier to replace if the drilling goes wrong than the entire steering knuckle/spindle.

I can also put the caliper in a drill press or end mill and drill and tap it for the big-sert with a lot more precision than a hand drill…

 

[doru]

If you go that route you have to adapt the brake lines.

That is no big deal. I think I documented it somewhere with pictures.
Just buy the parts and file a small tab on Tundra line bracket to accommodate the 200 ABS bracket that bolts to it. Very easy, the same way you adapt them for installing the TDR BBK brakes on 200 series. Parts are cheap to: Tundra flex line, Tundra hard line, Tundra line bracket, Tundra bolt for ABS bracket to line bracket).

 

[bloc]

Or, grind a $6 step bit and keep the 200-series brake lines.

I like having options.

 

[LX Cruiser]

What brand reamer did you use? The one I had was not effective at all.

This

plus this

made quick work of each hole. Like 30 seconds quick.

 

[shajbot]

Just have this done by a shop. Doesn’t stop like a sedan but significantly increase in stopping power compared to stock and pedal feels great. Parts cost around $500 including calipers, pads, shims, rotors, bolts, banjo bolts, gaskets shipped from Bell Lexus.

 

[shajbot]

Brake dive is more pronounced but it’s something I can live with.

 

[cubaniche]

So, I've read through this entire thread and others. What I understand, now, is that the best budget friendly upgrade is to buy 2016+ LX front rotors and calipers and drill out the knuckles to enlarge the holes to be 14mm spec, bend the shield out of the way if I'm not replacing it, and the factory brake line and banjo will bolt right in? Or is it strictly the 2016+ LC front rotors/calipers?

I've been looking at big brake kits but they are in the high 3k+ range. I have a GX470 and was able to do 6 piston wilwoods by RR Racing for 1500 or so (once I was done selecting options). But 3800+ is just not something I'm willing to do just for front brakes.

 

[FxFormat]

Yes, if you buy 2016+ calipers from LX/LC then you'll just need to enlarge the ears on the knuckle to mount the calipers and the soft line with banjo bolt right in. If you use TUNDRA calipers then it's more work to get the hard lines and bracket along with enlarging the ears.

 

[cubaniche]

Yes, if you buy 2016+ calipers from LX/LC then you'll just need to enlarge the ears on the knuckle to mount the calipers and the soft line with banjo bolt right in. If you use TUNDRA calipers then it's more work to get the hard lines and bracket along with enlarging the ears.

Awesome, thanks for the confirmation. I'm glad I found this thread. Well, I'm glad I kept reading and got to the end where it morphed into 16+ being ok and how to...lol

All other threads are about pre '16 tundra upgrade.

 

[lx200inAR]

Yes, if you buy 2016+ calipers from LX/LC then you'll just need to enlarge the ears on the knuckle to mount the calipers and the soft line with banjo bolt right in. If you use TUNDRA calipers then it's more work to get the hard lines and bracket along with enlarging the ears.

So, I've read through this entire thread and others. What I understand, now, is that the best budget friendly upgrade is to buy 2016+ LX front rotors and calipers and drill out the knuckles to enlarge the holes to be 14mm spec, bend the shield of in boot replacing it, and the factory brake line and banjo will bolt right in? Or is it strictly the 2016+ LC front rotors/calipers? I've been looking at big brake kits but they are in the high 3k+ range. I have a GX470 and was able to do 6 piston wilwoods by RR Racing for 1500 or so (once I was done selecting options). But 3800+ is just not something I'm willing to do just for front brakes. No need to enlarge ears if you get Tundra parts. You just have to adapt the brake lines. So if enlarging the ears seems daunting, you can order custom brake lines to adapt the connection between the vehicle and the new tundra caliper. 16+ 200 series parts (LX/LC Interchangeable) = no brake line adapters needed but ears have to be drilled out. 08-15 Tundra parts = Bolt on but need custom brake line setup. 15-21 Tundra parts = Adapt brake lines and drill out ears. Everything else is the same no matter which way you do it.

 

[cubaniche]

No need to enlarge ears if you get Tundra parts. You just have to adapt the brake lines. So if enlarging the ears seems daunting, you can order custom brake lines to adapt the connection between the vehicle and the new tundra caliper. 16+ 200 series parts (LX/LC Interchangeable) = no brake line adapters needed but ears have to be drilled out. 08-21 Tundra parts = Bolt on but need custom brake line setup. Everything else is the same no matter which way you do it.

Not daunting at all. I'm familiar with having to mod/fab stuff up. I've got a decent collection of tools of all kinds (I'm a big fan of the right tool for the job philosophy). I'd rather do this than source new lines etc. I've done my share of drilling....both soft and hard metals. Just needed to confirm all I had read to make sure it was as "easy" as widening the mounting holes. Thanks!

 

[FxFormat]

No need to enlarge ears if you get Tundra parts. You just have to adapt the brake lines. So if enlarging the ears seems daunting, you can order custom brake lines to adapt the connection between the vehicle and the new tundra caliper. 16+ 200 series parts (LX/LC Interchangeable) = no brake line adapters needed but ears have to be drilled out. 08-21 Tundra parts = Bolt on but need custom brake line setup. Everything else is the same no matter which way you do it.

I need to double check but tundra also uses M14 bolts at some point, I know mine were tundra calipers and I had to enlarge the ears

 

[lx200inAR]

I need to double check but tundra also uses M14 bolts at some point, I know mine were tundra calipers and I had to enlarge the ears

Ah, if that's the case, then there would be no reason to buy those Tundra calipers, if there are Tundra calipers that are available with the M12 bolts. I hadn't remembered reading of anyone using a Tundra caliper with a larger bolt.

Edit: Does look like the part may have been updated after 2015. I updated my post above to not add any confusion.