Dirtgypsy goes SOA

[GLTHFJ60]

So Dirtgypsy, how's your truck doing after a couple weeks on the roads? How are the drive shafts holding up? I'm starting tear down on mine in t-minus 7 days, so I'm going everything for the millionth time to have everything ready. Do you need to clearance the front crossmember if you use the DC front drive shaft?

 

[boots4]

Hoping to get some pics of the trial trip on Monday post up here today.

 

[boots4]

I've got a few minutes.

We took Clint's rig out this Monday to stretch and see how things are working.

Everything worked well. Maybe Clint can comment on his impressions.

 

[Tapage]

Damn .. some kind of mud .. ! nice .. !

 

[Dirtgypsy]

So Dirtgypsy, how's your truck doing after a couple weeks on the roads? How are the drive shafts holding up? I'm starting tear down on mine in t-minus 7 days, so I'm going everything for the millionth time to have everything ready. Do you need to clearance the front crossmember if you use the DC front drive shaft?

I was thinking it was time to do some updating but have been busy with other things.

Here is a couple of things for you on your project. Remember this is what I am experiencing so take it as it is.

1. The rear slip yolk and early front slip yolk are 2 differnet sizes. I had to take the 2 yolks a part and splice them together. The ujoints are the same but the yolk diameter is different. Hope this makes sense. If not let me know.

2. I am having problems with gear noise and bad vibes. I have resaerched all I can here on this site and have come up with that my drivline angle is way off at the pinion. Even with the CV rear I really need to rotate the pinion straight up at the rear transfer case in order to fix it. I have some 4* caster wedges I am putting in tomorrow to test this theory. I will let you know how it goes.

A brief description of what I am experiencing is a growl, grind , hi frequency vibe on decel at high speeds not on laod or acceleration. Mostly in the 70 mph to 40 mph range. If anyone else wants to chime in I am all ears.

3. 10" rear shocks at this time may be too short. I am going to try 5" bump stops to see if this works but at this time I am bottoming out the current set up with 6 1/2" of up travel. It may be time to inboard the shocks and go back to 12".

Hoping to get some pics of the trial trip on Monday post up here today.

Thanks for posting pics Mike! My wife was taking most the pics so unfortunately I really have nothing to post up of value to you flex heads other than this:

Rear pinion seal puking oil on my frame, 8 psi beadlocks, need bumpstops:

What I will say is that I am totally digging the SOA. It rides better, handles better and is a lot more stable than I anticipated. It flexes out really well and I am hopefull that this driveline issue will be worked out this weekend. Still many little projects going on so I will be sure to post up as soon as possible.

I still have yet to do trac bar, hydro steering and saginaw pump and still wont till first of June at this point.

Clint

 

[esh]

If you needed to knock things off your list for Rubithon, you could get away without a trac bar (2F, meh) and hydro. I don't remember how you wheel, but I doubt you would mess up anything otherwise. Drive gently if you're concerned.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Hydro will not be done untill I go to 37's and a bigger power plant. The box will at least get ported. The track bar will go on just for some peace of mind. The 2F will and has broken pinions in the past. My concern is I am a bit heavy footed at times plus I am wheeling a manual. The 2nd ARB may open things up for me as far as throttle managment but alas no time to just learn how to utilize it before the trip.

Clint

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I was thinking it was time to do some updating but have been busy with other things.

Here is a couple of things for you on your project. Remember this is what I am experiencing so take it as it is.

1. The rear slip yolk and early front slip yolk are 2 differnet sizes. I had to take the 2 yolks a part and splice them together. The ujoints are the same but the yolk diameter is different. Hope this makes sense. If not let me know.

I have absolutely no idea what this looks like. How can you splice them together if the yolks are different sizes?

2. I am having problems with gear noise and bad vibes. I have resaerched all I can here on this site and have come up with that my drivline angle is way off at the pinion. Even with the CV rear I really need to rotate the pinion straight up at the rear transfer case in order to fix it. I have some 4* caster wedges I am putting in tomorrow to test this theory. I will let you know how it goes.

A brief description of what I am experiencing is a growl, grind , hi frequency vibe on decel at high speeds not on laod or acceleration. Mostly in the 70 mph to 40 mph range. If anyone else wants to chime in I am all ears.

I've read that unless the pinion is directly in line with the driveshaft, you will have vibration problems. I picked up an early 60 DC for the rear to do exactly what you did and I'm going to use that to mock up the pinion angle on my FF rear with the 4+ perches I bought.

3. 10" rear shocks at this time may be too short. I am going to try 5" bump stops to see if this works but at this time I am bottoming out the current set up with 6 1/2" of up travel. It may be time to inboard the shocks and go back to 12".

Gotcha, 12" rear shocks. I need to pick up a set of ford towers this week and pick up some billy 7100's ( I think that's the model Mike said ).

What I will say is that I am totally digging the SOA. It rides better, handles better and is a lot more stable than I anticipated. It flexes out really well and I am hopefull that this driveline issue will be worked out this weekend. Still many little projects going on so I will be sure to post up as soon as possible.

I still have yet to do trac bar, hydro steering and saginaw pump and still wont till first of June at this point.

Clint

That's excellent news!! I've been looking forward to this mod on my rig for quite some time to reap the benefits, so I am excited. Phase 1 for me will be getting it drivable, phase two will be setting up the shocks, building the trac bar and getting an Aussie in the rear.

 

[boots4]

Gotcha, 12" rear shocks. I need to pick up a set of ford towers this week and pick up some billy 7100's ( I think that's the model Mike said ).

Yes, the 7100 series is what I bought and are on their way, maybe showing up next week. I did get custom valving due to a heavier front end, not running a swaybar, bigger tires, plus what I've stumbled across from the 80 guys. I'll be running 400/80. Should be a little stiff onroad but provide better weight control offroad. The custom valving did not cost anything extra. You might hold off until I get them hooked up and tried out.

If you plan on running 12" in the rear I'd think about extending the upper mount to keep the shocks more vertical. If you can help it try not to go past 20 degrees tilt in but do give them some tilt to follow the articulation of the axle.

 

[rookie54]

Is the rear drive shaft a DC? I know your front is but can't tell on rear DS. The answer to that changes part of my reply but one stays the same. If it's a DC ya, it needs to be pointed right at the transfer case. If its not a DC then both the output shafts need to be parallel from the transfer case/pinion. Another aspect of that is if the angle is to steep and not a DC and the u-joints are out of parallel then they will vibe at certain rpm's.

One other aspect of it is that during acceleration the pinion angle will point up and stay up some, and during deceleration will point down. The more power applied and flexiness of the system the farther it will swing up and down. A tracbar or "antiwrap" bar will help with that. Check out the vid's but be warned they feature a J*%P...
YouTube - Axle wrap

YouTube - axle wrap

 

[boots4]

We originally set it up for a standard 2 joint shaft but Clint switched over to a DC setup due to vibs. So our original setup needs modifying which is why he is going to try out the 4 degree shims to get the pinion pointed up. I agree that the pinion could be moving too much but expected the leaf packs to control that better until they were broken in. Maybe they are already broken in and already allowing too much movement in which case the antiwrap bar will limit as rookie54 states.

I've seen those vids before and was amazed that something didn't break during their testing.

 

[rookie54]

You guys should let me know the next time you guys head to the woods...

 

[esh]

You guys should let me know the next time you guys head to the woods...

Join up on cascade cruisers forum and watch the events forum. That is where most plans are made.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

We originally set it up for a standard 2 joint shaft but Clint switched over to a DC setup due to vibs. So our original setup needs modifying which is why he is going to try out the 4 degree shims to get the pinion pointed up. I agree that the pinion could be moving too much but expected the leaf packs to control that better until they were broken in. Maybe they are already broken in and already allowing too much movement in which case the antiwrap bar will limit as rookie54 states.

I've seen those vids before and was amazed that something didn't break during their testing.

Gotcha. Hopefully the 1/2" thick overloads in my spring pack will help with that situation until I get my anti-wrap bar built. I bought the kit from Ruffstuff so I've got everything I need except for the tube.

Clint, I would love to see a pic or two of the slip yolks spliced together.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Is the rear drive shaft a DC? I know your front is but can't tell on rear DS. The answer to that changes part of my reply but one stays the same. If it's a DC ya, it needs to be pointed right at the transfer case. If its not a DC then both the output shafts need to be parallel from the transfer case/pinion. Another aspect of that is if the angle is to steep and not a DC and the u-joints are out of parallel then they will vibe at certain rpm's.

One other aspect of it is that during acceleration the pinion angle will point up and stay up some, and during deceleration will point down. The more power applied and flexiness of the system the farther it will swing up and down. A tracbar or "antiwrap" bar will help with that. Check out the vid's but be warned they feature a J*%P...
YouTube - Axle wrap

YouTube - axle wrap

Yes the rear is a DC. Like Mike stated we set up the rear originally to run a straight 2 ujoint shaft but it was actually binding and had vibes due to too much angle. I switched to a DC thinking this would fix the issue. Unfortunatley it did little to change anything and am now backtracking to fix the pinion angle to mate up to the DC. The shims are for a quick fix to see if I am on the right track. If it is the case then I will cut a reweld the perches on with more pinion angle.

We originally set it up for a standard 2 joint shaft but Clint switched over to a DC setup due to vibs. So our original setup needs modifying which is why he is going to try out the 4 degree shims to get the pinion pointed up. I agree that the pinion could be moving too much but expected the leaf packs to control that better until they were broken in. Maybe they are already broken in and already allowing too much movement in which case the antiwrap bar will limit as rookie54 states.

I've seen those vids before and was amazed that something didn't break during their testing.

I don't think the springs are the issue. The issue is that the pinon angle is too shallow allowing the ujoint to bind. Just to test the theory a bit today on a short 14 mile drive I loaded the back of my rig with #250 lbs of sand bags, my spare tire, tools, winch, etc and took it for a drive. I was able to get the truck to squat a good 1" and effectivley giving me more pinion angle. So far so good. I still had some vibes but less of the growl I was hearing. I think the shims will do the trick for a short term fix. They are steel and I may just weld them in anyways.

Gotcha. Hopefully the 1/2" thick overloads in my spring pack will help with that situation until I get my anti-wrap bar built. I bought the kit from Ruffstuff so I've got everything I need except for the tube.

Clint, I would love to see a pic or two of the slip yolks spliced together.

Here is what I am talking about. Take the slip yolk from your DC shaft and remove just the end. Buy a new unjoint while you are at it.

Replace this end with the one off of your non DC shaft and bingo you got a hybrid early/ late shaft that bolts up to your pinions and now to your new output flanges supplied by Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters.

Reworking pinion angles, shock stuff and hopefully a start on the new rear bumper tomorrow.

Clint

 

[Dirtgypsy]

You guys should let me know the next time you guys head to the woods...

I am sure we will be out at least once more before Rubithon.

Join up on cascade cruisers forum and watch the events forum. That is where most plans are made.

Like Esh said most our plans are now being made and posted on the Cascade Forum. Join up and PM me if you want to join us on another outing.

Clint

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Here is what I am talking about. Take the slip yolk from your DC shaft and remove just the end. Buy a new unjoint while you are at it.

Replace this end with the one off of your non DC shaft and bingo you got a hybrid early/ late shaft that bolts up to your pinions and now to your new output flanges supplied by Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters.

Reworking pinion angles, shock stuff and hopefully a start on the new rear bumper tomorrow.

Clint

I thought you meant take the DC end of the early shaft and put it onto the pinion end of the stock shaft to get more length. If you just swap out the mounting flange on the u-joint end of the DC shaft and bolt it on, it will be long enough?

 

[Dirtgypsy]

I thought you meant take the DC end of the early shaft and put it onto the pinion end of the stock shaft to get more length. If you just swap out the mounting flange on the u-joint end of the DC shaft and bolt it on, it will be long enough?

The slip yolk will be just fine. You will have to retube so when you do just take that into account when you build your driveline. So your driveline will be set up like this:

DC at transfer bolted to new output flange, new tube, DC slip yolk, late model mounting flange on DC yolk.

Does this make sense?

I did not take pics just not enough time to stop as I promised my boy a bike ride tonight.

The shims did the trick!!! Pinion straight at the transfer and viola no vibes, no growl on decel and I was able to peg the spedometer today (probably 80 mph) and it was stable.

No more of the odd wondering the SR gave me and major bump steer.

Feeling a bit like this:

Ready for a break then rocking it till Rubithon!

Clint

 

[brokenparts]

hey Clint... how do you feel about the factory rivets?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Got it. For some reason, when I read your first explanation to the rear driveshaft, I thought you came up with a DC combo that didn't need to be lengthened / shortened.

Can you send me the measurements so I can get the shaft to a shop this week? You've got my exact setup.

Thanks for all the help Clint! Congrats on getting your rig working the way it should.