Differences between a 1963 and a 1965 FJ40

[MexicanNewby]

Can anyone please help my understand the differences between these models?
I believe them to be minor...The reason is that I have an FJ40 that matches with all the '65 numbers, yet most of the actual details are prior to '64: Single master cylinders, no rear curved windows, 3 speed on tree...and on...

 

[Old Red]

None of what you just listed---"single master cylinders, no rear curved windows, 3 speed on tree"---are features inconsistent with a 1965 FJ40.

A major part of forum participation, in my view, is discerning incorrect information from correct information, i.e., fact from fiction.

When a forum member with many posts insists on calling their 1963 FJ40 a 1964 FJ40, for example, I can see how real confusion may ensue for a "newbie." Or when a forum member "restores" their early FJ40 and takes interpretive liberties with its originality, I can see the confusion.

Be diligent, though. Read carefully, think critically and examine lots and lots of photos wherever you can find them. You will eventually develop a more accurate picture of what is what. It takes time.

 

[Living in the Past]

Can anyone please help my understand the differences between these models?
I believe them to be minor...The reason is that I have an FJ40 that matches with all the '65 numbers, yet most of the actual details are prior to '64: Single master cylinders, no rear curved windows, 3 speed on tree...and on...

All those things you mentioned were used in the first part of 65. Column shift thru the 71 model. Single reservoir thru the 70 model. Curved rear window started part way thru 65 with a redesigned hard top.

 

[MexicanNewby]

None of what you just listed---"single master cylinders, no rear curved windows, 3 speed on tree"---are features inconsistent with a 1965 FJ40.

A major part of forum participation, in my view, is discerning incorrect information from correct information, i.e., fact from fiction.

When a forum member with many posts insists on calling their 1963 FJ40 a 1964 FJ40, for example, I can see how real confusion may ensue for a "newbie." Or when a forum member "restores" their early FJ40 and takes interpretive liberties with its originality, I can see the confusion.

Be diligent, though. Read carefully, think critically and examine lots and lots of photos wherever you can find them. You will eventually develop a more accurate picture of what is what. It takes time.

You're absolutely right, but I haven't been deliberate in my misinformation, hence my questions. Thanks for taking your time to reply.

 

[MexicanNewby]

All those things you mentioned were used in the first part of 65. Column shift thru the 71 model. Single reservoir thru the 70 model. Curved rear window started part way thru 65 with a redesigned hard top.

That's great to know, I had this as a reference: TLC FAQ - 15.1 40 Series Production Timeline

I just haven't been able to find enough information as to when some changes were made, as user Old Red said, it takes time to learn.

 

[Living in the Past]

That's great to know, I had this as a reference: TLC FAQ - 15.1 40 Series Production Timeline

I just haven't been able to find enough information as to when some changes were made, as user Old Red said, it takes time to learn.

Not sure who made that time line but a ton of stuff that is inacccurate.

 

[shelfboy1]

bought my first fj40 in 1971 it was a 65 with 3 on the tree no corner windows just like the 64 i owned for many years after

 

[MexicanNewby]

bought my first fj40 in 1971 it was a 65 with 3 on the tree no corner windows just like the 64 i owned for many years after

Thanks!

 

[Dizzy]

What date of production of the '65 bought in '71?

I use SOR as a go-to for questions of such nature. For example, the Cruiser FAQ is missing the fuel door addition, the change from a split bench to buckets, gas tank shield, and, when the spare moved from passenger's side to driver's side (just that it evolved to tubular). Some of it is intuitive, like the absent tool box under the driver's bucket seat? But that is making a leap if the vehicle has had mods, and, if the Cruiserhead is a beginner.

 

[Living in the Past]

What date of production of the '65 bought in '71?

I use SOR as a go-to for questions of such nature. For example, the Cruiser FAQ is missing the fuel door addition, the change from a split bench to buckets, gas tank shield, and, when the spare moved from passenger's side to driver's side (just that it evolved to tubular). Some of it is intuitive, like the absent tool box under the driver's bucket seat? But that is making a leap if the vehicle has had mods, and, if the Cruiserhead is a beginner.

To me the big one is the VIN plaque added to the A pillar. That was in 3/69 and ten years later the date Toyota decided to support the parts system too. Bought my first cruiser in 1974, a 68 FJ40. Wasn't too many years later the guy at the counter would have to dig out the hard copy book when I said I have a 68. Still have the 68 today. Options of finding parts have greatly expanded thanks to the internet.

 

[Splangy]

What date of production of the '65 bought in '71?

I use SOR as a go-to for questions of such nature. For example, the Cruiser FAQ is missing the fuel door addition, the change from a split bench to buckets, gas tank shield, and, when the spare moved from passenger's side to driver's side (just that it evolved to tubular). Some of it is intuitive, like the absent tool box under the driver's bucket seat? But that is making a leap if the vehicle has had mods, and, if the Cruiserhead is a beginner.

SOR’s data will be sure sure to lead you in the wrong direction for the very early models. This is weird because they actually own some very rare early models but just don’t seem interested in updating their data.

 

[oregon fj]

Also remember that there can be a difference between "build year" and "model year", and that Toyota may not have been totally consistent in what changes occurred and when. There is some fuzziness in this.

There are some things that are fairly concrete. For example, most '63s would have a rear axle with a centered differential, '64 and newer will have an offset differential. FJ40s built after the middle of '63 will have oil pressure and ammeter gauges rather than warning lights. For the '65 model year, there was an added opening on the right side of the tub near the kick vent for fresh air heater supply. These are the types of things that can help you pin it down a bit closer.

 

[MexicanNewby]

Also remember that there can be a difference between "build year" and "model year", and that Toyota may not have been totally consistent in what changes occurred and when. There is some fuzziness in this.

There are some things that are fairly concrete. For example, most '63s would have a rear axle with a centered differential, '64 and newer will have an offset differential. FJ40s built after the middle of '63 will have oil pressure and ammeter gauges rather than warning lights. For the '65 model year, there was an added opening on the right side of the tub near the kick vent for fresh air heater supply. These are the types of things that can help you pin it down a bit closer.

Thanks! It does have the vent/intake on the passenger side.
All the gauges are bust and am trying to get them repaired.
Will check the differential, is it the front or the rear one that is either centered or offset?
Thanks again,
J

 

[Living in the Past]

Also remember that there can be a difference between "build year" and "model year", and that Toyota may not have been totally consistent in what changes occurred and when. There is some fuzziness in this.

There are some things that are fairly concrete. For example, most '63s would have a rear axle with a centered differential, '64 and newer will have an offset differential. FJ40s built after the middle of '63 will have oil pressure and ammeter gauges rather than warning lights. For the '65 model year, there was an added opening on the right side of the tub near the kick vent for fresh air heater supply. These are the types of things that can help you pin it down a bit closer.

The air vent on the passenger's side was part of the heater which was a option in early 65 with the corrugated top. When the top changed to the later style believe in the US market the heater was standard. Would have to do some homework on the centered diff. Have a technical bulletin stating the frame number on the change on the 40 and 45. Because the US did not get any 43s that info is not there. It may have been in 62. 62-63 change overs are confusing. So few were imported and getting feedback from owners who have them is tough. Have to remember this wasn't that long after WWII and sales were slow. Toyota couldn't give away the Toyopet. If the LC wasn't so superior to the Jeep the same would have probably been true for it as well.

 

[MexicanNewby]

The air vent on the passenger's side was part of the heater which was a option in early 65 with the corrugated top. When the top changed to the later style believe in the US market the heater was standard. Would have to do some homework on the centered diff. Have a technical bulletin stating the frame number on the change on the 40 and 45. Because the US did not get any 43s that info is not there. It may have been in 62. 62-63 change overs are confusing. So few were imported and getting feedback from owners who have them is tough. Have to remember this wasn't that long after WWII and sales were slow. Toyota couldn't give away the Toyopet. If the LC wasn't so superior to the Jeep the same would have probably been true for it as well.

Thank you so so much for taking your time to answer my questions. I'll try and update pictures as progress on the restoration is made.

 

[Living in the Past]

On the centered diff in the rear axle this was a carry-over from the FJ25 which had a four speed with Granny first gear and only 2WD and 4WD but no high low range transfer case. The rear driveline attached directly to the tailshaft of the transmission which the reason for the centered diff. What is a mystery, did they have that many blank rear axle housings and just used them up. the early three speed transmission and transfer case were different. Those last less than three years. Believe those were a copy of a GM three speed. They look to them. Once they came out with the new design three speed it was used in some markets into the eighties.

 

[MexicanNewby]

So first of all I'd like to thank everyone in this thread who took time to reply, I have also learnt tons from simply reading at several threads, so cheers to all of them too! I often find myself simply reading to some threads that don't even apply to my build but are a delight to read.


I'd like to share a few pictures and insight as to where I am at this stage, one year after buying my first FJ40 for restoration.
First, after nine months of little to no progress I decided to take a step(s) back and do the whole thing as a frame off restoration: The chasis, suspension, differentials, brakes, engine and tranny rebuilt and installed in one place while the body is being rebuild at a specialized shop (damage was heavy as it stood for 20+ years sitting outdoors).


There have been tons of repairs so far and we've been surprised with some of the fixes it had, like a sink brass base acting as a replacement for a seal in one of the steering rods.
We've been fixing things as best as we can, like the base to where the steering damper is attached which was broken. Rough fix, but it works.


So here are a few pics of the chassis before the restoration, not kidding, about 20 lbs of rust and dirt came out of the innards of the chassis.
Still have a long way to go but I just wanted to take some time and say cheers! to you all.

This is the progress so far with the new drum brakes, cylinders, rebuilt differentials (seals, bearings...), leaf springs, new shocks, steering rods, rebuilt steering box, rims....

 

[SteveH]

Looks like you're doing the right things - best wishes with the resto!

 

[MexicanNewby]

A quick update on my rebuild:

- Engine has been rebuilt as original as possible. The harmonic balancer was busted so the "crank" bolt was removed and it now works with a pressure bolt and it is properly attached to the crankshaft.

- All twelve rocker arms have been repaired.

- Carb rebuilt

- Ordered as much of the gears and accessories as possible from Amayama so the gear box is almost new.

- Crankshaft had to be adjusted, tricky job but it was done at the unlikeliest of shops.

- Radiator completely repaired.

- Fuel pump rebuilt.

- Water pump rebuilt.

- Water seals replaced.

- Brake lines replaced.

- New brake cylinders, springs, brake drums, shoes, parking brake too.

- Steering rebuilt.

- Distributor was fine, surprisingly.

Now I am only missing bits and pieces like the oil and water pressure switches and most of the rubber bits to mount the top and side panels as well as the rear bi-fold door.

I'd say I am 60% of the way there. I may finish it by September, cross my fingers.

Best to all,

Jeronimo

 

[middlecalf]

Nice! What’s that fuel pump? Does it have a built in fuel filter?