Cruisers & Co + Wholesale Automatics + HGM A750F Transmission Swap

[Cruisers and Co]

So what's it going to cost?

Dave... that's the burning question. We're still finalizing a few things but will have detailed pricing for everything soon. Biggest single cost of the whole thing is the transmission, depends on which direction you go Remand or Used. I can say it’ll be cheaper then buying a stage 2 turbo and that’s with a remand unit

 

[Cruisers and Co]

So now the question is, when will this kit be adapted to the 100 series?

I have one I can loan

That will happen later this year. The good news with that is there is zero need for any bellhousings or adapters since it already came in that application

 

[Cruisers and Co]

Fantastic! My only request for a signup list for a joy ride would be to front line those of us that this actually applies to (80 owners). I know that everyone will want a ride, but it would be nice not to be bumped from a test run as a probable customer by someone that couldn't even use it, but just wants the joy ride experience for fun.

As far as a transmission upgrade over turbo first...you can have as much power as you want, but when the trans blows, you're still dead in the water. Up until now, there were no solid transmission options like this, so it definitely alters the course of mods for me! I have receipts that my trans was rebuilt at about 100k (now at 166k), but it's far from a pleasant ride when heading on the highway through the hills. I'm a huge fan of monitoring temps, etc, so I already have the Koso gauge on my dash that I plumbed properly into the hard radiator line up top to be as accurate as possible. I even have the Toyo module to see it on the tablet too (from the ECM).

Yes, if you do not have an FZJ80 or LX450 no rides until everyone else has had a turn.

Exactly, power is no good unless you can put it to the ground. The Compushift also has an app you can connect to and see what the transmission is doing in real time. Gear, temps, line pressures

 

[COS80]

Dave... that's the burning question. We're still finalizing a few things but will have detailed pricing for everything soon. Biggest single cost of the whole thing is the transmission, depends on which direction you go Remand or Used. I can say it’ll be cheaper then buying a stage 2 turbo and that’s with a remand unit

Forgive my impatience. I already found a transmission, and I have all my spreadsheets open, frantically recalculating everything but the new budget, and let's face it: the budget commands the rest.

 

[COS80]

I don't understand all the intricacies of gear ratios throughout the driveline. Mine is still all stock (except tires), so this presents a whole new potential path to my upgrade plan.

4.88 R&P gears provide an 18% reduction over stock 4.11s. Your gear table shows the A750F's 1st gear is 25% lower than the A343F's. Throw in 35" tires, and that goes to an effective 11% reduction, or roughly the equivalent reduction as 4.56s. I realize that's just one gear, but how should one factor this impact into the whole package? In other words, how do I determine the R&P ratio to go with this transmission?

 

[Cruisers and Co]

I don't understand all the intricacies of gear ratios throughout the driveline. Mine is still all stock (except tires), so this presents a whole new potential path to my upgrade plan.

4.88 R&P gears provide an 18% reduction over stock 4.11s. Your gear table shows the A750F's 1st gear is 25% lower than the A343F's. Throw in 35" tires, and that goes to an effective 11% reduction, or roughly the equivalent reduction as 4.56s. I realize that's just one gear, but how should one factor this impact into the whole package? In other words, how do I determine the R&P ratio to go with this transmission?

So to find any drive of any gear you take the transmission gear x the transfer case gear x the differential gear and that will give you your final drive but for RPM vs mileage it's easier to find a calculator. If testing low range just put your Rear Gear Ratio = Tcase Gear (say 3.1 if you have low gears) x Diff gears so that would be 12.71 with 4.10 diff gears

For real world practicality I would use THIS calculator and punch in your #'s

4.10 gears may be slightly too tall with 35's. I will be finding out if the turbo has enough oomph to keep it from hunting as this is my setup currently.


4.56 @ 75

4.88 @ 75

 

[COS80]

So to find any drive of any gear you take the transmission gear x the transfer case gear x the differential gear and that will give you your final drive but for RPM vs mileage it's easier to find a calculator. If testing low range just put your Rear Gear Ratio = Tcase Gear (say 3.1 if you have low gears) x Diff gears so that would be 12.71 with 4.10 diff gears

For real world practicality I would use THIS calculator and punch in your #'s
View attachment 4078515

4.10 gears may be slightly too tall with 35's. I will be finding out if the turbo has enough oomph to keep it from hunting as this is my setup currently.


4.56 @ 75
View attachment 4078517

4.88 @ 75
View attachment 4078518

In short, ignore the change to 1st gear and continue to base it all on top gear (or the 1:1 gear)?

 

[Dragos80]

In short, ignore the change to 1st gear and continue to base it all on top gear (or the 1:1 gear)?

 

[Dragos80]

A lot more details here.

 

[Cruisers and Co]

In short, ignore the change to 1st gear and continue to base it all on top gear (or the 1:1 gear)?

You could look at it like that, most trucks spend most of their time on the highway or in town not offroad. Low range is just as effected by what gear it is in. You are correct that some of that reduction is negated by tire size but when looking at purely just the gears the 1st gear is 25% lower. It will still be 25% lower (when in 1st) than any current setup at the end of the day. If you have been on 35's and 4:10's you will still feel that 25% difference when taking off the line.

This is likely where I am headed. I have had 4.88's sitting on the bench for over 2 years now and I cruise far in the truck. Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, and all over Colorado each year

In low the same applies still 25% - will make a huge improvement offroad.
Low range 1st gear A343F w/ 3.1:1's --- 2.804 x 3.1 x 4.10 = 35.64:1
Low range 1st gear A750F w/ 3.1:1's --- 3.520 x 3.1 x 4.10 = 44.74:1

 

[Dragos80]

This might be the best one yet. I don't know, I did not watch the video, but I have a feeling it might be the best.

 

[COS80]

Determining R&P ratio is simple when you're just changing the tires. It's changing to a trans with both a higher top gear and a lower low gear, along with tires and R&Ps, that's a bit of a head scratcher. But I think the answer is to continue to base it all on the 1:1 gear, or put another way, don't consider the transmission a variable at all, and enjoy the extra boost in 1st and the extra creep in 5th.

 

[Dragos80]

This is the formula:

 

[Dragos80]

Determining R&P ratio is simple when you're just changing the tires. It's changing to a trans with both a higher top gear and a lower low gear, along with tires and R&Ps, that's a bit of a head scratcher. But I think the answer is to continue to base it all on the 1:1 gear, or put another way, don't consider the transmission a variable at all, and enjoy the extra boost in 1st and the extra creep in 5th.

If your goal is to stay as close as possible to stock, use the formula above to determine where you are currently.
This will dictate what you need to change.

But I am a bit confused as to what you are trying to achieve in the end.
So what exactly do you want in terms of gear ratios?
Do you want your engine's RPM to be at a certain level for a certain given speed? Say 65MPH?
Improved crawl ratio?

In my mind I simply don't care about the numbers. I know it will be better and believe me I have geeked on those ratios and numbers for a very long time if you care to see my posts in the old 5-speed transmission threads from years ago.

 

[COS80]

If your goal is to stay as close as possible to stock, use the formula above to determine where you are currently.
This will dictate what you need to change.

But I am a bit confused as to what you are trying to achieve in the end.
So what exactly do you want in terms of gear ratios?
Do you want your engine's RPM to be at a certain level for a certain given speed? Say 65MPH?
Improved crawl ratio?

In my mind I simply don't care about the numbers. I know it will be better and believe me I have geeked on those ratios and numbers for a very long time if you care to see my posts in the old 5-speed transmission threads from years ago.

I have a plan in place to restore factory driveability. The numbers don't matter. I know where I am today, and I know where my existing plan puts me tomorrow. The question is: how does a different transmission affect that plan?

If the math continues to be based on the 1:1 gear in the transmission, the answer is that the trans change has no effect on the plan.

 

[Cruisers and Co]

I have a plan in place to restore factory driveability. The numbers don't matter. I know where I am today, and I know where my existing plan puts me tomorrow. The question is: how does a different transmission affect that plan?

If the math continue to be based on the 1:1 gear in the transmission, the answer is that the trans change has no effect on the plan.

whats the existing plan?

 

[COS80]

whats the existing plan?

For simplicity's sake: 35s + 4.88s.

 

[Dragos80]

I have a plan in place to restore factory driveability. The numbers don't matter. I know where I am today, and I know where my existing plan puts me tomorrow. The question is: how does a different transmission affect that plan?

If the math continue to be based on the 1:1 gear in the transmission, the answer is that the trans change has no effect on the plan.

Not sure if you really want to restore the OEM ratios.
It would be a bit counterproductive as the 80 came in with a low crawl ratio (number wise). You would want to achieve the opposite here and this is where the A750F comes into play.

For example if you swap the tranny you could use a 39" tire and your crawl ratio in first gear would be just like it came out of the factory.
However, the 5th gear would be in a super-overdrive status with 39" tires.
So there is really no happy medium here... well in fact there is. Leave it alone. That means keep your 4.11 gears.
If you are trying to fix the first gear, you will mess up the 5th one.
If you try to fix the 5th gear, you will mess up the 1st one.

You need to accept the fact that the spread is much larger now than it was originally.

With 35" tires with the A750F you are still better than OEM gears and 31" tires. But will will have lower RPMs in 5th gear on the freeway. Which might end up being a good thing.

 

[COS80]

For example if you swap the tranny you could use a 39" tire and your crawl ratio in first gear would be just like it came out of the factory.
However, the 5th gear would be in a super-overdrive status with 39" tires.
So there is really no happy medium here... well in fact there is. Leave it alone. That means keep your 4.11 gears.
If you are trying to fix the first gear, you will mess up the 5th one.
If you try to fix the 5th gear, you will mess up the 1st one.

You need to accept the fact that the spread is much larger now than it was originally.

With 35" tires with the A750F you are still better than OEM gears and 31" tires. But will will have lower RPMs in 5th gear on the freeway. Which might end up being a good thing.

This is what I meant when I said:

But I think the answer is to continue to base it all on the 1:1 gear, or put another way, don't consider the transmission a variable at all, and enjoy the extra boost in 1st and the extra creep in 5th.

 

[SNLC]

@Cruisers and Co you doing anything to beef up the trans internals?

I don’t believe a 442, 343 or yes even the 750 is up to the task of 300-500whp. The Aussies for a long time have said don’t push these trans over 250 without upgrades or you will regret it. All our bigger HP builds run manual trans or we limit power in an auto for this very reason. More to the point I believe it is big torque that kills the trans when not built for it.

We can see double, even more torque than that out of the diesels vs say the 2uz.

Cheers