Cracked Frame Plate Template

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Have you taken apart your front axel and inspected the hubs, spindles and bearings? Wear in any of these can cause wobble. One of the bronze bushing on my spindle was shot when I did my rebuild and that made a big difference in vibrations. Quick check is to raise the front wheels and then grab them at 12 oclock and 6 oclock and shake. If you have movement you have a problem. Potentially can just be a loose spindle nut but should be investigated.

Also make sure your steering arm nuts are tight, I have to re torque mine after every wheeling trip as they start to loosen up.

The rims may not be bent but if they are factory alloy they could be pitted enough to make them hard to balance. Mine are pretty bad so they are on my list to replace.
 
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I took a close look at where the cross member attaches to the opposite frame side and found what appears to be a small crack. This is the solid rod that attaches to the panhard bracket and runs across the rig to the opposite frame rail. I think this was probably a result of the original cracking but I'm not taking a chance so I welded up a 3/16" plate bracket to reinforce that entire area as well. So I would say that if you found cracks on the steering side you should also closely examine the opposite rail where this rod attaches.

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I recently tipped my LC over on right (driver) side. After getting the panel beating sorted the old girl developed a massive death wobble. Tightening bearings, replacing bushes and balancing eventually sorted that, but plenty cracks on chassis around steering box, shock and spring towers and a couple more were discovered. Slowly getting sorted as she's my dd and its rainy/mud season. I like that someone saw the problem around the steering box and created a fix with the weld-in plates.

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Wow, that's horrible!! I did a cursory look in these locations for cracks but the frame paint makes it hard to tell if there's a minor crack or not. In my photos above I couldn't see that crack on the opposite frame rail very well at all, it looked just like a crack in the paint. It wasn't until I ground it down that it was really obvious.

So what I ended up doing is what everyone doesn't recommend which is throw money at the death wobble problem: New Delta arms & panhard bracket, new MAF steering upgrade kit with new TREs, new bushings in panhards, new adjustable LCA's because my old ones were bent making my thrust angle slightly off (.25 deg), full front axle rebuild including new spindles/bearings with (IIRC) 35 ft-lbs on the bearings and preload on the trunions at the higher end of the spec. In addition to this, I did the additional welding on the side opposite the steering attachment as shown above.

Result:
Towed my ~3500lb M101A trailer setup down to AZ like a breeze. Drove better than it ever has, by far. Amazing difference, I think largely due to the Delta panhard bracket--that thing is truly an amazing bang for the buck! I was so stoked all that work and money made such a H-U-G-E difference! At the end of a 10-hour drive I was fully relaxed like I drove my Subaru down...usually I'm totally exhausted.
Then I drove the hell out of it offroad down in AZ for a week. I ran into town one day with three little kids and death wobble randomly hit again at 65MPH in a very terrifying way. This truck has never, ever done anything like that before especially without warning and at such a high speed. I made it back onto dirt OK, drove it around offroad for many more hours at high speed with no problems. At last had to drive 1.5h drive on gnarly washboards to get to pavement to head home, death wobble again happened when I hit pavement only much more predictably--anything over 50MPH and it would 100% happen. I could feel it very obviously in the wheel building up. I had to air down and limp at 48MPH for 3 hours to Vegas where fortunately I had previously made an appointment to get Nitto's put on. What's interesting is that a few hours into this drive I could tell that whatever was causing the wobble had settled down because it was no longer borderline (at 48MPH it was very obvious I was on the limit of DW and had to slow down for all major bumps)--I think something settled down in my crappy shot tire?!? Did my OME stabilizer fade on my gnarly high speed washboard drive and it took an hour or two for it to start working again? I'm not sure.
So anyway I got to the shop and got the new tires installed and everything was instantly perfect. The Nitto's have eliminated all wobble, entirely. I previously had Cooper AT3 XLTs and I think they have been garbage since Day 1. Even with the recent overhaul I could still feel a very distinct minor wobble in the wheel when hitting a certain kind of bump, and that has always been present with these tires regardless of rotation, newly balanced, etc. But with the Nittos that distinct wobble is entirely gone.

However, I'm not convinced this problem is solved just with the new tires. I have a post in this very thread from 2018 where road force balancing eliminated my wobbles and I thought I was good to go. That was true until I went to rotate/balance my tires last spring which randomly caused death wobble to return. I spent all day limping between tire shops until someone could get the stupid Cooper AT3 XLT tires balanced properly even on Road Force machines. Some shops were saying I had bent rims, some said they were fine.....uh, what?!? On my latest tire change they said my rims were totally perfect! I think they were covering up shot tires.
I started looking into this more, beyond Land Cruisers, and came across this great article by Thuren Suspension which is specific to Dodge Ram's but it's an interesting read if you have death wobble and this mimics my experience entirely:
Basically, their conclusion is that more caster can make DW worse, minor loose components are not a major contributor to recurring DW and that certain tire types and steering stabilizers, especially stabilizer location, are primary players. I found this article by looking into the steering stabilizer as a culprit only because it's literally the only thing I haven't replaced in the DW system and my little engineer mind can't wrap itself around the idea of a damper being "unneeded" to reduce or eliminate a harmonic oscillation since that's precisely what they were invented for and what DW is. (Actually, that article brought up something I also haven't replaced yet which is the panhard rod itself (not the bushings but the rod) as a culprit).

Anyway, this is all to say that although the rig is driving great now I feel like I'm 5k miles of tire wear or a bit of mud stuck to the rim away from another potential DW situation because it's happened before. This includes after the many thousands of dollars of upgrades I just did which is unbelievably frustrating because my primary motivation for doing that was to prevent DW. I've been through every Death Wobble thread on here and I've done literally every possible root cause fix and apparently it is still possible on my rig, which is why Thuren's article above appeals to me: I haven't changed the OME steering damper because it feels fine off the truck (or the panhard rod but that should be OK?!?).

@Delta VS I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. I think what I'd like to do next is install a powerful stabilizer, an IPF one that won't fade just in case that was actually my problem--maybe the new Dobinson's adjustable that you sell because I think that's an IPF? BUT I'd like to mount the steering damper to the axle and tie rod like a Jeep setup instead of in the factory location which has essentially worthless geometry with the large lift I'm running. Maybe that's unnecessary in 99.9999% of rigs but I'd like to fully prevent this from ever happening again no matter how bad my tires are.

Sorry for the novel but hopefully this helps someone in the future with death wobble.
 
Wow, that's horrible!! I did a cursory look in these locations for cracks but the frame paint makes it hard to tell if there's a minor crack or not. In my photos above I couldn't see that crack on the opposite frame rail very well at all, it looked just like a crack in the paint. It wasn't until I ground it down that it was really obvious.

So what I ended up doing is what everyone doesn't recommend which is throw money at the death wobble problem: New Delta arms & panhard bracket, new MAF steering upgrade kit with new TREs, new bushings in panhards, new adjustable LCA's because my old ones were bent making my thrust angle slightly off (.25 deg), full front axle rebuild including new spindles/bearings with (IIRC) 35 ft-lbs on the bearings and preload on the trunions at the higher end of the spec. In addition to this, I did the additional welding on the side opposite the steering attachment as shown above.

Result:
Towed my ~3500lb M101A trailer setup down to AZ like a breeze. Drove better than it ever has, by far. Amazing difference, I think largely due to the Delta panhard bracket--that thing is truly an amazing bang for the buck! I was so stoked all that work and money made such a H-U-G-E difference! At the end of a 10-hour drive I was fully relaxed like I drove my Subaru down...usually I'm totally exhausted.
Then I drove the hell out of it offroad down in AZ for a week. I ran into town one day with three little kids and death wobble randomly hit again at 65MPH in a very terrifying way. This truck has never, ever done anything like that before especially without warning and at such a high speed. I made it back onto dirt OK, drove it around offroad for many more hours at high speed with no problems. At last had to drive 1.5h drive on gnarly washboards to get to pavement to head home, death wobble again happened when I hit pavement only much more predictably--anything over 50MPH and it would 100% happen. I could feel it very obviously in the wheel building up. I had to air down and limp at 48MPH for 3 hours to Vegas where fortunately I had previously made an appointment to get Nitto's put on. What's interesting is that a few hours into this drive I could tell that whatever was causing the wobble had settled down because it was no longer borderline (at 48MPH it was very obvious I was on the limit of DW and had to slow down for all major bumps)--I think something settled down in my crappy shot tire?!? Did my OME stabilizer fade on my gnarly high speed washboard drive and it took an hour or two for it to start working again? I'm not sure.
So anyway I got to the shop and got the new tires installed and everything was instantly perfect. The Nitto's have eliminated all wobble, entirely. I previously had Cooper AT3 XLTs and I think they have been garbage since Day 1. Even with the recent overhaul I could still feel a very distinct minor wobble in the wheel when hitting a certain kind of bump, and that has always been present with these tires regardless of rotation, newly balanced, etc. But with the Nittos that distinct wobble is entirely gone.

However, I'm not convinced this problem is solved just with the new tires. I have a post in this very thread from 2018 where road force balancing eliminated my wobbles and I thought I was good to go. That was true until I went to rotate/balance my tires last spring which randomly caused death wobble to return. I spent all day limping between tire shops until someone could get the stupid Cooper AT3 XLT tires balanced properly even on Road Force machines. Some shops were saying I had bent rims, some said they were fine.....uh, what?!? On my latest tire change they said my rims were totally perfect! I think they were covering up shot tires.
I started looking into this more, beyond Land Cruisers, and came across this great article by Thuren Suspension which is specific to Dodge Ram's but it's an interesting read if you have death wobble and this mimics my experience entirely:
Basically, their conclusion is that more caster can make DW worse, minor loose components are not a major contributor to recurring DW and that certain tire types and steering stabilizers, especially stabilizer location, are primary players. I found this article by looking into the steering stabilizer as a culprit only because it's literally the only thing I haven't replaced in the DW system and my little engineer mind can't wrap itself around the idea of a damper being "unneeded" to reduce or eliminate a harmonic oscillation since that's precisely what they were invented for and what DW is. (Actually, that article brought up something I also haven't replaced yet which is the panhard rod itself (not the bushings but the rod) as a culprit).

Anyway, this is all to say that although the rig is driving great now I feel like I'm 5k miles of tire wear or a bit of mud stuck to the rim away from another potential DW situation because it's happened before. This includes after the many thousands of dollars of upgrades I just did which is unbelievably frustrating because my primary motivation for doing that was to prevent DW. I've been through every Death Wobble thread on here and I've done literally every possible root cause fix and apparently it is still possible on my rig, which is why Thuren's article above appeals to me: I haven't changed the OME steering damper because it feels fine off the truck (or the panhard rod but that should be OK?!?).

@Delta VS I'm curious as to your thoughts on this. I think what I'd like to do next is install a powerful stabilizer, an IPF one that won't fade just in case that was actually my problem--maybe the new Dobinson's adjustable that you sell because I think that's an IPF? BUT I'd like to mount the steering damper to the axle and tie rod like a Jeep setup instead of in the factory location which has essentially worthless geometry with the large lift I'm running. Maybe that's unnecessary in 99.9999% of rigs but I'd like to fully prevent this from ever happening again no matter how bad my tires are.

Sorry for the novel but hopefully this helps someone in the future with death wobble.
Hope you get paid by the word!!

Anyway, just read through that link. The heavier a rig is and the bigger (i.e., heavier) the tires are, the more the components he's talking about are going to be an issue (panhard, bushings, etc). I'm not sure I see how excess caster would play a role in this. My personal, direct experience with massively excessive caster (our 6" arms paired with Icon 3" springs) is it doesn't cause death wobble (I can do this because of 2wd conversion, makes steering much less sensitive to over-correction of caster). Seems much more likely too little caster would be the issue, and is what author kind of alludes to ("post lift issues" or whatever, with no mention of caster correction). There is probably some sweet spot of positive caster that would cause death wobble, when paired with all the other little things, which leads to the "each vehicle is different" mentality.

The 80 Series linkages are certainly stout, and the front panhard has a relatively small bend in it (some of those full size trucks have panhards with huge u-shaped bends that would act more like a spring), so it's hard to imagine that plays a huge roll. Old bushings seem like they'd have the most drastic effect.

The Dobinsons dampers are certainly bad-to-the-bone, running them on all our shop trucks. They are indeed non-emulsion type. Keep in mind both ends are attached via rubber bushings. The one on the reservoir side is more like a small isolator that actual bushings, but the side on the shaft end full on rubber taper bushings like on the end of an OME shock or similar.

As far as connecting axle housing to steering linkage with damper, after a quick look under the front of personal rig, would have to be a pretty funky setup with odd angles, AND... with rigs that have a lot of articulation (as in NOT full size trucks), would require some extra special parts. Seems like having the damper connected directly to the steering box (stock setup) is an intelligent way to set it up.

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I've dealt with death wobble on a couple of landcruisers. One with 4"lift. One with 2"lift

Each time its been eliminated 100% with attention to maintenance and condition of all the wear items in the front suspension, and keeping caster within factory specifications.

Wear items being all bearings, TRE, all bushes, bolt torque, frame cracking at steering box.

I've removed steering dampers on my last two landcruisers completely and have had zero issues. Current cruiser had a failed damper when I purchased it, damper was removed shortly after and have done 30k without it, no issues, no negative effect on steering or handling.

I've had death wobbles on cruisers while fitted with new dampers too. On previous cruisers, changing dampers was done in attempt to 'fix' death wobbles. IMO damper can mask issues, but will not fix them.

I've run 315/75r16 mud tyres for extended periods of time unbalanced on rims that I know have had minor damage. I gave up having them balanced as weights were regularly lost when the rig was taken off road.
I would have logged about 30k miles on 315 MTZs with no balancing, and occasional tire rotation.
 
Quick update for others dealing with this. I ended up ordering these frame reinforcement plates from The 4WD Shed in Australia. They were $120 to my door, but well worth it IMO. Got them welded in yesterday.

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I am chasing the DW like crazy, I did an alignment and it helped, I have new RA bushings and everything else is in good shape, but when I got it aligned and drove it for a few minutes it was fine, but then as I drove a longer I started getting the DW again, tomorrow I am going to check the frame extensively I do not like the DW it is making my rig scary
 
I am chasing the DW like crazy, I did an alignment and it helped, I have new RA bushings and everything else is in good shape, but when I got it aligned and drove it for a few minutes it was fine, but then as I drove a longer I started getting the DW again, tomorrow I am going to check the frame extensively I do not like the DW it is making my rig scary
How long has it been since you've replaced the trunnion bearings? Carrying around that diesel will place extra load on those bearings.
 
The biggest difference I've made was quality tires (Nitto) road-forced balanced and a super strong steering stabilizer (Dobinson's Adjustable). This makes sense because the things most likely to contribute to a self-amplifying harmonic (which is what death wobble is) are the huge rotating masses at each end of the axle (tires) and the damper designed to reduce the harmonics inevitably associated with those large rotating masses (steering stabilizer).

The damper has made an unbelievably VERY SIGNIFICANT difference, quite frankly it's the only thing that made ANY consistent difference in the process of rebuilding my entire front-end including new radius arms, bushings all around, steering rods/TREs, all wear components in the front axle including birfs, etc. It's great that some folks can drive on 37s without a stabilizer--good for them, but that's certainly not the case for me.
My rig has always had an interesting steering wheel shimmy on certain types of bumps/driving scenarios, and this shimmy has always been associated with the wobble (i.e., sometimes that steering wheel shimmy would wobble for a few seconds after hitting a bump in a certain scenario but not develop into full-blown DW so clearly something was up). Now that shimmy is gone ENTIRELY with the Dobinson's damper, something that no new tires have ever been able to eliminate. Whatever is up with my rig, the damper has made it go away. Is it "masking" something? Well, I've replaced everything so I'm not sure what that could be, but regardless I don't care because my rig is rad now--isn't that the point? If I was starting to track down DW all over again from the beginning, I would throw $400 at the steering stabilizer first and foremost and then go about fixing the frame, rebuilding the front axle, bushings, TREs, etc. All that matters if you have DW is to not have DW! Besides, this stabilizer makes long high-speed hauls on gnarly washboard SO MUCH BETTER when you crank it down all the way.....driving off-road has the same steering wheel feel as driving on-road!

That said, I still feel that I'm a simple tire rotation away from DW potentially returning. I've had new tires before and gotten them re-balanced/rotated and had it rear its ugly head again for no other reason, but that was pre-damper upgrade. The lack of shimmy as mentioned above give me lots of hope. I'll know more after I rotate these new Nittos with the Dobinson's damper and will update this thread accordingly. Fingers crossed that it never, ever comes back because it's really the most terrifying thing I've ever experience in a car aside from an accident.

Again, at its core death wobble is a self-amplifying harmonic and the point of a steering stabilizer is to stop self-amplification regardless of cause (trunnions, wheel bearings, bushings, unbalanced tires, loose TREs, etc.).
 
How long has it been since you've replaced the trunnion bearings? Carrying around that diesel will place extra load on those bearings.
@BILT4ME I already had sticky trunnions (false brinelling) after just a few thousand miles on a freshly rebuilt front axle using the highest-testing Amsoil grease. Extra load indeed!!!!
 
How long has it been since you've replaced the trunnion bearings? Carrying around that diesel will place extra load on those bearings.

It’s been my experience with 80s that tires are the most significant factor in death wobble. I’ve had 80s come into the shop with incredibly worn trunion bearings and no death wobble symptoms. I’ve also finished axle rebuilds, checked tie rod ends, panhard bushings, etc, found them all to be good and had death wobble. In every case the tires were old or very worn out, with little tread, chunking, etc.

I’ve also seen 80s get brand new spindles in an effort to combat the problem, yet it persisted (this one I don’t understand, but won’t get into here). Another had such a worn steering stabilizer that there was no fluid left in it, but had no wobble.

Granted, worn components , such as the trunion bearings, loose wheel bearings, et al can exacerbate the issue, but I’m of the developing opinion that tires are very often, if not always, the root cause.
 
It’s been my experience with 80s that tires are the most significant factor in death wobble. I’ve had 80s come into the shop with incredibly worn trunion bearings and no death wobble symptoms. I’ve also finished axle rebuilds, checked tie rod ends, panhard bushings, etc, found them all to be good and had death wobble. In every case the tires were old or very worn out, with little tread, chunking, etc.

I’ve also seen 80s get brand new spindles in an effort to combat the problem, yet it persisted (this one I don’t understand, but won’t get into here). Another had such a worn steering stabilizer that there was no fluid left in it, but had no wobble.

Granted, worn components , such as the trunion bearings, loose wheel bearings, et al can exacerbate the issue, but I’m of the developing opinion that tires are very often, if not always, the root cause.

As well as tire pressure. I have seen DW cured by running different pressure.

Cheers
 
How long has it been since you've replaced the trunnion bearings? Carrying around that diesel will place extra load on those bearings.
Probably when I did the swap, I cannot find any slop in the trunnion bearings, I have found out when I first drive it there is no wobble but after about 10-15 minutes or less it will at just 42-45 and then it goes away, and it does not happen every time, I don't like throwing parts at it and i cannot figure out the problem I checked wheel bearings ( I bought new front I just did the rears last month, and plan on doing the fronts maybe a full knuckle rebuild )
 

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How much toe-in after the alignment? Rotate your tires and see if that changes anything--if so, probably a tire balance issue.....get them road-force balanced, or if they're old just get new ones with a more round profile.

I'd spend $400 on the stabilizer before I did new tires, based on my experience.
 
How long has it been since you've replaced the trunnion bearings? Carrying around that diesel will place extra load on those bearings.
So I pulled the tie rod and checked my trunnion bearings and they are smooth, no sloppy or notchy feeling it only comes on at 42-46 MPH and goes away but some times under braking on the drivers side, I also scrubbed my frame and looked for cracks on the frame and there are none . I am wondering if the radius arm bushings are to soft I have checked them with a pry bar and the last time I checked them they were 20+ years old and seemed stiff so I changed them and I still have the wobble
 
Thanks for the Template, I also have a 90' HDJ81 and was stoked to find it. I fabbed the plates today and will be welding them to the frame tomorrow.

I figured I'd add my death wobble notes to the thread for posterity.

I never had any issues, then without having made any changes to the rig, suddenly I had mild to moderate DW. Mostly around 40 MPH, I had my tires rotated and balanced and it changed the problem, the frequency and speed ranges would change, but the DW was still there.

I did a full rebuilt of both axles, not because of DW, this was already planned maintenance. It improved things to the point that the wobble was pretty mild and rare, so I didn't pursue it for a bit. I came back to the issue when I had some time, and replaced my Panhard bushes. This made a huge improvement, the DW was now just a steering wheel shake that would happen pretty infrequently. Then I found a bad TRE and replaced them all, replaced a bent tie rod and had it aligned again. No change.

Today I was under the rig and decided to really check out the frame. Found a crack under the steering box, and where the tubes are welded on the inside.

Hard to say which of these issues are causes are which are symptoms. The DW itself could crack the frame and beat the TRE's and bushes to death.

I suspect my Cooper ST MAXX's are the culprit. A balance/rotate always seems to change the characteristics of the issue.

Specs: OME heavy springs all around, BP-51's, Nitro charger steering damper. 255/80/17 Cooper ST maxx. Caster corrected with plates, 4 Degress of Caster.
 
Totally agree on symptoms vs causes! I mainly think my DW was Cooper tires as well, my Nittos have been superb. Also love the Dobinsons adjustable steering damper as insurance and prevention.

Another great thread came up the other day around welding cracked frames properly, definitely worth the read prior to doing the welding.

DeltaVS now finally offers a US source for pre cut plates!
 
Hey @jellis and @Delta VS what do you have your dobinson's stabilizer set at? I am having a similar issue. No cracks, all bushings and rod ends are tight, wheel bearings and trunions tight (jacked up one tire at a time and checked for play at 3 and 9 and 12 and 6, then had someone turn wheel left and right and noticed no play in any ends or bushings. Torqued panhard bolts just in case and they were tight at 127 ft lbs). I have 35x12.50r17 BFG K02's mounted on Hutchinson Rockmonster bead locks. Going to have discount tire balance and rotate them before going off the deep end. Since everything else is tight from what I can tell, I think this is most likely the issue (balancing). If I notice an improvement after the rotation and balance, but still notice the problem a little, I'll try the dobinsons stabilizer. Is that still your consensus on the order of operation? Wondering if i'd also benefit from the delta rear bracket?

Edit for more detail on vehicle: Front axle repacked and trunions were inspected by Toyota 10k miles ago. Truck is at 5" lift in front (slee medium 4" with spring spacer) and slee 4" heavies in rear with no spacer. Adjustable panhards and upper control arms. Slee 6" gen 2 radius arms and 1 degree caster/camber bearings in front axle. Last alignment was done by slee 10k miles ago. Caster was at +4.3 degrees, camber -0.5 and -0.6, and toe .11 and .12.
 
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