Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (2 Viewers)

[boga357]

Pin 3 has constant power FYI

 

[bj40green]

Rudi

I have power until I get to pin 4. It is blank and the output to temp is dead as well. I assume that the problem is getting power from 3 on the clip to pin 4.. Either way, what is next?

I also have an aftermarket temp gauge that works attached to the dash, but I want to remove it and go back to original.

Thanks in advance

Pin 3 has constant power FYI

Hi boga, if that's your name,

Constant power on pin3 is OK.
There is a bit technology involved here. It's not "goes in, comes out". The FUEL gauge has a build in Voltage Regulator and we (you) have to figure out if that VR still works.
I need more info then "no power" on pin4.
All your gauges must be hooked up for this test.
Please give me all the readings. Fill in in the dotted lines.
pin1 = ground
pin2 = .....
pin3 = 12V
pin4 = .....
pin5 = .....
output to TEMP gauge = .....

Rudi

 

[boga357]

Hi boga, if that's your name,

Constant power on pin3 is OK.
There is a bit technology involved here. It's not "goes in, comes out". The FUEL gauge has a build in Voltage Regulator and we (you) have to figure out if that VR still works.
I need more info then "no power" on pin4.
All your gauges must be hooked up for this test.
Please give me all the readings. Fill in in the dotted lines.
pin1 = ground
pin2 = .....
pin3 = 12V
pin4 = .....
pin5 = .....
output to TEMP gauge = .....

Rudi

Names Eric

I used the light test. Will run it in the am with meter and give you more detailed results.

Thanks for your help.

 

[jusmud]

Hi Guys

Does anyone know where replacement backlighting fittings can be sourced.

I am missing two (2) RH Turn and a lighting one.

I am not after the cover but the twist in bulb holders.

Many thanks

 

[bj40green]

I buy them at the car electric shops. They are pretty universal but watch out. There are several look-a-like models (ask me how I know). The difference is sometimes minimal but don't fit.
Bring your cluster or just the PCB to the shop for test fitting.

Rudi

 

[bsmith123]

cluster

nice job

nice to see the 50 amp meter

great idea for a thread, thanks for the resource

 

[jusmud]

I buy them at the car electric shops. They are pretty universal but watch out. There are several look-a-like models (ask me how I know). The difference is sometimes minimal but don't fit.
Bring your cluster or just the PCB to the shop for test fitting.

Rudi

Thanks Rudi

Ok I will bite................. There are several look-a-like models (ask me how I know).

How do you know?

 

[bj40green]

Thanks Rudi

Ok I will bite................. There are several look-a-like models (ask me how I know).

How do you know?

One day I needed a few bulb sockets so I go to my favorite car electric shop and ask for bulb sockets for the reloj (spanish for cluster) for a Toyota Land Cruiser BJ40. Ah, the guy says; Toyota Jeep! Here in Costa Rica we only have the BJ40 and is known as Toyota Jeep, period. In the beginning I told them; no, no Jeep, Toyota but after several of those encounters I understood that here a 40 is called a Jeep.
So the guy dives under the counter and holds 5 bulb sockets in his hand. I look at them and thought... looking good. Looks like the ones I need, new, shiny that must be it. When I got home I inserted the bulbs and put them in the cluster. Perfect.
This is a pic of the OEM bulb socket.

A few months later I needed more bulb sockets for another restoration project so I go to the same shop, with the same guy behind the counter and ask for the same sockets.
Again he dives under the counter and pops up with 5 sockets.
I looked at them and thought, yes they are the same. New and shiny, so I was a happy customer. I come home, inserted the bulbs and....... they didn't fit! All 5 of them!
Here is a pic of one of the second set.

Now tell me, when you're in the shop and hold the second one in your hand, can you tell the difference with the first one?
Here are they next to each other.

The one on the left is the OEM Toyota socket, the one on the right is for a... I don't know. This one is a tad bigger on the outside. The notches, the gaps and the flange are all a bit bigger, enough to don't fit the cluster.
Note that the bulb on the right is the original, more than 30 years old, YAZAKI light bulb 24V 3W from a 24V cluster.

So follow my advice and take your cluster with you to the shop when you buy your sockets.

Rudi

 

[Jrod]

Car electric shop? I need a bulb connector but don't know where to find one other than buying from an individual here on Mud.

 

[boga357]

Hi boga, if that's your name,

Constant power on pin3 is OK.
There is a bit technology involved here. It's not "goes in, comes out". The FUEL gauge has a build in Voltage Regulator and we (you) have to figure out if that VR still works.
I need more info then "no power" on pin4.
All your gauges must be hooked up for this test.
Please give me all the readings. Fill in in the dotted lines.
pin1 = ground
pin2 = .....
pin3 = 12V
pin4 = .....
pin5 = .....
output to TEMP gauge = .....

Rudi

Rudi

Eric Here,

Constant power on pin3 is OK.
There is a bit technology involved here. It's not "goes in, comes out". The FUEL gauge has a build in Voltage Regulator and we (you) have to figure out if that VR still works.
I need more info then "no power" on pin4.
All your gauges must be hooked up for this test.
Please give me all the readings. Fill in in the dotted lines.
pin1 = ground
pin2 = 12v
pin3 = 12V
pin4 = no reading
pin5 = no reading
output to TEMP gauge = no reading

My main goal is to get the fuel gauge to work. My odometer does not work and fuel gauge dont work so i am constantly guessing on the fuel usage and need for refill.

Thanks

 

[boga357]

This is a pic of my cluster

 

[bj40green]

Rudi

Eric Here,

pin1 = ground
pin2 = 12v
pin3 = 12V
pin4 = no reading
pin5 = no reading
output to TEMP gauge = no reading

My main goal is to get the fuel gauge to work. My odometer does not work and fuel gauge dont work so i am constantly guessing on the fuel usage and need for refill.

Thanks

Hi Eric,

Those readings doesn't look good, I'm sorry to say.
It looks like you have 2 problems.
The first one is the OIL circuit and the second one is the Voltage Regulator from the FUEL gauge that isn't working.

Pin2 = to OIL sender and should read 5V. You say 12V which means that the gauge is OK but the circuit is open.
Possibilities are: broken wire to sender, sender not connected, faulty sender.

Pin4 = to FUEL sender and should read +/- 6V intermittent. You say no reading which means that the internal Voltge Regulator inside the FUEL gauge is defective.

Pin5 = to TEMP sender. Here we have 2 options why it doesn't works but because this gauge is fed from the FUEL Voltage Regulator we save this one for later.

I don't know your electrical skills and ability to work with really tiny parts and a solder iron but if you want we can dive deeper into that Fuel gauge and see what is defective.

For the FUEL gauge; The easy way to fix this is get another one.
Another option is to buy an external FUEL meter and sender for under the dash.
Third option is to replace the mechanical VR for an electronic (LM7807) VR. The costs are less than 1$ but you need some skills to modify the Fuel gauge for this.
For the OIL gauge you have to trace where the problem is. The wiring or the sender.

Hope this helps a bit,

Rudi

 

[boga357]

Thanks will discuss and decide

 

[boga357]

Hi Eric,

Those readings doesn't look good, I'm sorry to say.
It looks like you have 2 problems.
The first one is the OIL circuit and the second one is the Voltage Regulator from the FUEL gauge that isn't working.

Pin2 = to OIL sender and should read 5V. You say 12V which means that the gauge is OK but the circuit is open.
Possibilities are: broken wire to sender, sender not connected, faulty sender.

Pin4 = to FUEL sender and should read +/- 6V intermittent. You say no reading which means that the internal Voltge Regulator inside the FUEL gauge is defective.

Pin5 = to TEMP sender. Here we have 2 options why it doesn't works but because this gauge is fed from the FUEL Voltage Regulator we save this one for later.

I don't know your electrical skills and ability to work with really tiny parts and a solder iron but if you want we can dive deeper into that Fuel gauge and see what is defective.

For the FUEL gauge; The easy way to fix this is get another one.
Another option is to buy an external FUEL meter and sender for under the dash.
Third option is to replace the mechanical VR for an electronic (LM7807) VR. The costs are less than 1$ but you need some skills to modify the Fuel gauge for this.
For the OIL gauge you have to trace where the problem is. The wiring or the sender.

Hope this helps a bit,

Rudi

Thanks for everything. Ordered a new fuel gauge. And will track the oil pressure wire on Monday. Will let you know how it goes

 

[bj40green]

Testing the gauges

Here is a video where I test all the gauges at the same time.
The Cluster in this movie is a 3rd generation cluster with the 30-0-30 Amp gauge.
The set up for a 4th generation cluster is the same except that the 50-0-50 AMP gauge will give you a false reading if you hook it up in series, so DON'T do that.



In the video you'll see me testing all 4 gauges (OIL, FUEL, TEMP and AMP) at the same time. I combined the 3 tests from the FSM and hooked up the AMP gauge in series with the power supply into 1 test.
You can also see the improved back lighting.
All the senders are replaced by a 12V 3W light bulb. Note that the OIL light is steady on and that the FUEL and TEMP lights are blinking due to the Voltage Regulator inside the FUEL gauge.
The Amp gauge is hardly moving but that's because it's only measurring the current draw from the cluster including the senders. It's approx. 1Amp

Rudi

 

[dfmorse]

Refost#92 & my 1979-80 FJ40.
My '79 FJ40 with about 83000 miles on the meter has a totally stock ammeter. I have owned the money pit from new and the ammeter never deflected much at all. This is true this date as in 1980 as a new vehicle.

To test the ammeter I disable engine starting and grind the old battery down by repeated attempts to start engine; -10°F makes for hard starting for example. As soon as the engine does kick in, the ammeter will jump into the charge area (+) for a few seconds as the battery charges. I have measured this current at a pulse of around 60-70 amps. This type of meter will not respond to this, but u will see movement.

I my opinion, Toyota designed this type of meter movement with durability in mind and not precision. It could have been designed much better, but cost and utility was more the controlling factor. In my FZJ80, I have designed an ammeter with digital readout using the shunt in post#96. Operator Position1

The FJ40 ammeter system was never meant to be this kind of gauge. However, this does beg the question of resistance type wire being used in 1978 and later FJ40 series FJ vehicles. Does anyone know if a resistance wire was used in connection to ignition or ammeter?

The fuse link may be one example, but the fuse link may have selected for max current under short circuit conditions and then it would blow. The rugged ammeter would handle the short-circuit pulse and the two 5amp fuse would only blow on a short circuit condition. 5 amp fuses are more rugged than 0.5 amp fuses and cheaper to produce.
End...

 

[bj40green]

Testing the 30-0-30 AMP gauge

WARNING: This test is NOT for the '79 and later 50-0-50 AMP gauge !!
See next posting for this gauge.​

The last tests that are missing are AMP gauges.
The 2nd and 3rd generation clusters all had the 30-0-30 AMP gauge. As we've learned in posting #74, the full current goes through the AMP gauge so this gauge reflects 1 on 1 how much current runs through the gauge.
We're talking about this:

You can safely test this gauge by hooking up a known light bulb, do the math and check for the correct reading.
Let's say you have a 60W lightbulb. The Voltage is 12V. The formula is: Volts x Amps = Watts.
To calculate the Amps the fomula is: Amps = Watts ÷ Volts.
So when we know the Watts and the Volts the formula is now:
60 (W) ÷ 12 (V) = 5 Amps.
Well, 5Amps on a 30Amps scale means that the needle moves 1/6 to the negative (if + and - are hooked up correctly).
These Ammeters are far from accurate so I see them more as an indicator. It's just a test to see if the gauge works.

Rudi

 

[bj40green]

testing the 50-0-50 AMP gauge

The 4th generation clusters ('79 and later) all have the 50-0-50 AMP gauge.
We're talking about this set up:

As we've learned in previous postings (#75 - #103 long story) this AMP gauge reflects the current draw on a 50 : 1 ratio.
Which means: 50 Amps through the fusible link is 1Amp through the AMP gauge which is calibrated 50A for a full scale.
This means that you can not use the same method as described in the previous post to test this gauge.
If you do, your gauge will end up like this one:

How to test this gauge? Knowing now that the current limit for this gauge is 1 Amp we have to find a light bulb that draws less than 1Amp.
Using the same formula as before, Volt x Amps = Watts, we can fill in 12Volt x 1Amp = 12Watts. We have to use a light bulb less than 12W.
A 5Watt light bulb will do for this test. Do some fast math and you'll figure out that a 5Watt bulb draws a bit less than ½Amp so the reading on the gauge should be less than ½ the scale which is ± 20Amps.

Knowing now that the gauge works and putting it back into the cluster, don't be suprised that the gauge doesn't show much of a movement.
As said before in this thread, there seems to be a design flaw in this circuit which we were not able to figure out.

Rudi

 

[jusmud]

I buy them at the car electric shops. They are pretty universal but watch out. There are several look-a-like models (ask me how I know). The difference is sometimes minimal but don't fit.
Bring your cluster or just the PCB to the shop for test fitting.

Rudi

Just thought that i would let you guys know that Toyota Australis still keeps 34 Year old spare parts available over the counter
I wanted to purchase 2 replacement light bulb holders for my cluster and was able to get a pack of 5 for $10
Awesome and they are genuine Toyota stock see photos

 

[bj40green]

Good to know. 5 for $10! That's $2a piece. I think I paid $1.75 for aftermarket ones.
I wish that Toyota here in CR was that helpfull with "old timer" parts.

Rudi