Kudos to bj40green for posting the wealth of detailed information in this thread! Wow! Very nice!
Clusters, Gauges, Speedo & Odo meters (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter bj40green
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Hi there all.Ok just read a little but cant find why dose my cluster have the barrel conector and a three pin plug on the back. Thanks to those reply
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #183
Hi Nick,
Let me guess.... your Cruiser is '79 or later, the Amp gauge reads 50-0-50 right?
So you have a 4th generation cluster. The 3 pin connector is for the Amp gauge and the ground wire for the Blue High Beam indicator.
Looks like this?
Rudi
Last edited:
yes you are corect i am goint to put my 77 cluster in should be ok if i dont connect the amp meter the 79 speedo kept winding of the scale. thanks great posts
I hear that one can be satisfied visiting Costa Rica beholding all of the Land Cruisers tooling through the rain forest. Thanks to bj40green, more than a few of them will still be running twenty years from now. Below is a scan from my 2F Engine Repair Manual. Copyright date is 1977 by Toyota Motor Sales Co., Ltd. I have a (12 volt) 1978 FJ40 (forest green), original owner, original parts. About 6 weeks ago its charging system quit. My mechanic's tester indicated that the alternator was not producing anything. Since I have high winter charging demands (snowplow, plow-lights, heater, wipers, two batteries, locker compressor), I figured that now was the time to upgrade to a Mean Green 200amp alternator. Unfortunately, it never arrived in time for my seven hour drive to the Ouray Summit meeting, so I ordered one from Carquest along with a new voltage regular because I was told that when the alternator goes out so goes the regulator. I also got a new main battery. I think if I had purchased the new battery two months ago, the whole series of failures would not have happened. I was delaying the battery purchase until the beginning of winter.
The carquest alternator did not have an exactly matching plug so I improvised, and yet, nothing worked and furthermore, the engine fuse would blow as soon as I turned on the ignition. The car started and ran normally with the blown fuse. The amp gauge showed a slow discharge in the daytime. After each trip, I would recharge the old battery with a external battery charger.
With the Summit deadline approaching, I turned the car over to my mechanic and he traded the carquest alternator for a different one. Everything seemed to be fine, except when I was coming down a long highway mountain-grade with my headlights on (in the daytime), I suddenly noticed that the amp gauge was jumping around a lot in the charging zone. I turned the lights off and the jitters stopped. I have avoided using the lights as much as possible. Sometimes, the needle does not fluctuate with the head lights on. The auxiliary plow lights which are permanently mounted don't cause as much jittering in the amp gauge. Parking lights and turn signals can make it jump around, although not as much as with the headlights on.
Meanwhile, the Mean Green alternator has still not arrived. I'm curious to see what its installation instructions will say, if anything, about upgrading some of the old wiring to heavier gauges. I have a work in progress going here. It would be nice to get the jitters out of the system before proceeding. When the amp gauge is fluctuating while driving at a steady highway speed with the headlights on, I think the illumination from the lights themselves is steady.
My new voltage regular has an additional unused 7th connection dangling (blue with red bands).
Diagram two above does not seem to match my original wiring exactly. Most perplexing is the “fusible link” …. I have yet to find it. When the Mean Green alternator arrives, I think I am supposed to replace it and the fusible link wiring run with something rated for a whopping 250 amps x 12 volts. Is that correct? What others wires should be upgraded? The ground from the battery to the chassis looks wimpy, so I'm going to beef it up.
The carquest alternator did not have an exactly matching plug so I improvised, and yet, nothing worked and furthermore, the engine fuse would blow as soon as I turned on the ignition. The car started and ran normally with the blown fuse. The amp gauge showed a slow discharge in the daytime. After each trip, I would recharge the old battery with a external battery charger.
With the Summit deadline approaching, I turned the car over to my mechanic and he traded the carquest alternator for a different one. Everything seemed to be fine, except when I was coming down a long highway mountain-grade with my headlights on (in the daytime), I suddenly noticed that the amp gauge was jumping around a lot in the charging zone. I turned the lights off and the jitters stopped. I have avoided using the lights as much as possible. Sometimes, the needle does not fluctuate with the head lights on. The auxiliary plow lights which are permanently mounted don't cause as much jittering in the amp gauge. Parking lights and turn signals can make it jump around, although not as much as with the headlights on.
Meanwhile, the Mean Green alternator has still not arrived. I'm curious to see what its installation instructions will say, if anything, about upgrading some of the old wiring to heavier gauges. I have a work in progress going here. It would be nice to get the jitters out of the system before proceeding. When the amp gauge is fluctuating while driving at a steady highway speed with the headlights on, I think the illumination from the lights themselves is steady.
My new voltage regular has an additional unused 7th connection dangling (blue with red bands).
Diagram two above does not seem to match my original wiring exactly. Most perplexing is the “fusible link” …. I have yet to find it. When the Mean Green alternator arrives, I think I am supposed to replace it and the fusible link wiring run with something rated for a whopping 250 amps x 12 volts. Is that correct? What others wires should be upgraded? The ground from the battery to the chassis looks wimpy, so I'm going to beef it up.
Last edited:
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #187
Hi Snowpusher,
You've a big load for a 30Amps Alternator, but it worked untill 6 weeks ago.
Are your headlights still OEM wired? IOW there is no headlight relay? If so, it means that the full current goes through the light switch and thus also through the Amp gauge. If there is a millisecond of bad contact in this circuit the Amp gauge will react instantly, however, that millisecond is too short to notice a flickering headlight due to the time delay from the (glow) filament of the bulbs.
The fusible link is a short piece of wire, aprox. 6" long with spade connectors. It's close to the +battery post/clamp.
When you switch to the 200+ Amps Alt, it's wise to upgrade the wiring from the B lug on the Alt directly to the battery, install a decent Fusible Link and while you're at it intall a Volt meter.
Your OEM Amp guage will be toast when you leave it as is.
Good luck,
Rudi
OK. I found the 6 or 8 inch long wire with the “fusible link”. It had a lot of tape on it and evidence that it had shorted out a bit on the fender wall years ago. I didn't check for a fuse. "Fusible" means that there may or may not be a fuse in my dictionary. The black connector (with the possible fuse) is slightly melted. I'm going to replace these with much heavier gauge wiring (any gauge suggestions?) and a 250 amp inline fuse. I still need to unwind a lot more tape to see what's going on. The wiring run does not match the diagrams that I posted. On my 78, there is a white wire with a blue stripe that leaves the alternator and joins the main wiring harness to the firewall below the voltage regulator. The short fusible section to the positive battery post is white with no stripe. There is a lot of tape to remove before I can see how the striped wire loses its stripe, so that I can see just how far back I need to go with heavier gauge wiring for the 200 amp alternator.
You say, “it's wise to upgrade the wiring from the B lug on the Alt directly to the battery.” Right now, there is no direct path like that (and that's what confusing me). Most everything should be close to factory original except for the dual battery setup (which has a solenoid and a big-ass inline fuse).
I do not want to toast my OEM amp gauge. I am not sure how I am going prevent that from happening. I'll see what the Mean Green instruction manual has to say when the 200 amp alternator comes. Meanwhile, I'll keep checking for wires that may be chaffing/rubbing where they can ground themselves out or cross.
I think the headlight relay is taped up near the firewall on the driver side. I myself put that tape on because some of the old wiring supports are gone and there too, there is a risk of wires losing their insulation and shorting out on the wheel wells. Does that sound like the right place for the relay? I can't take much apart right now because this is my only vehicle. Thanks for all the tips!
You say, “it's wise to upgrade the wiring from the B lug on the Alt directly to the battery.” Right now, there is no direct path like that (and that's what confusing me). Most everything should be close to factory original except for the dual battery setup (which has a solenoid and a big-ass inline fuse).
I do not want to toast my OEM amp gauge. I am not sure how I am going prevent that from happening. I'll see what the Mean Green instruction manual has to say when the 200 amp alternator comes. Meanwhile, I'll keep checking for wires that may be chaffing/rubbing where they can ground themselves out or cross.
I think the headlight relay is taped up near the firewall on the driver side. I myself put that tape on because some of the old wiring supports are gone and there too, there is a risk of wires losing their insulation and shorting out on the wheel wells. Does that sound like the right place for the relay? I can't take much apart right now because this is my only vehicle. Thanks for all the tips!
Last edited:
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #189
Before you start cutting your wiring.....
Here is the diagram for your Cruiser.
The White/Blue stripe wire goes from the Alt to the -side of the Ammeter and is White from the + side of the Ammeter to the fusible Link and then to the battery.
The Fusible Link is a LINK and NOT a fuse! The wire size is 4AWG numbers smaller then the circuit that it protects.
For more info on Fusible Links -► https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/526232-fusible-link-one-my-78-bj40.html
So if you want to upgrade to 200+ Amps you have to redo the circuit from the Alt to the Battery, which means; skip the cluster Ammeter. That's what I meant in my previous posting.
Rudi
Here is the diagram for your Cruiser.
The White/Blue stripe wire goes from the Alt to the -side of the Ammeter and is White from the + side of the Ammeter to the fusible Link and then to the battery.
The Fusible Link is a LINK and NOT a fuse! The wire size is 4AWG numbers smaller then the circuit that it protects.
For more info on Fusible Links -► https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/526232-fusible-link-one-my-78-bj40.html
So if you want to upgrade to 200+ Amps you have to redo the circuit from the Alt to the Battery, which means; skip the cluster Ammeter. That's what I meant in my previous posting.
Rudi
Before you posted that, I did a drive into town and back and came up with the following:
More progress. I got the jitters out. The temporary tape added on the run near the fusible link has stopped the intermittent grounding. Furthermore, I'm starting to think that on my amp meter, it will have a white wire with a blue stripe on one terminal and a white wire on the other terminal. That would make my setup like the first diagram. The wiring run from the alternator to the amp gauge to the positive battery post would be over ten feet long, 3 meters.
My road trip to Ouray involved much higher temperatures than my FJ usually experiences, so the old taping (partly from a restoration of the main body ten years ago) is giving out and needs more protection, even if it looks well taped. I kind of had that hunch earlier and had stopped to do some temporary taping, however, I didn't add protection to the fusible link area because it looked OK. Live 'n Learn.
More progress. I got the jitters out. The temporary tape added on the run near the fusible link has stopped the intermittent grounding. Furthermore, I'm starting to think that on my amp meter, it will have a white wire with a blue stripe on one terminal and a white wire on the other terminal. That would make my setup like the first diagram. The wiring run from the alternator to the amp gauge to the positive battery post would be over ten feet long, 3 meters.
My road trip to Ouray involved much higher temperatures than my FJ usually experiences, so the old taping (partly from a restoration of the main body ten years ago) is giving out and needs more protection, even if it looks well taped. I kind of had that hunch earlier and had stopped to do some temporary taping, however, I didn't add protection to the fusible link area because it looked OK. Live 'n Learn.
thank you very much. This is what I was looking for
Now that I've followed your link on fusible links … it will be interesting to see if Mean Green addresses these issues. I bet they do not include one of these slowwwww burning fuses/wires that can take years to burn and yet save one's wiring harness. You seem to saying, in no uncertain terms, that the stock amp meter will have to be disconnected. I believe you. I wonder what Mean Green will say, if anything. My experience so far is that they take your money and tell you you what you want to hear. Let's hope it gets better … and not meaner. Of course, my request down the line will be for some electrical wizardry to keep the stock amp meter with a 200 amp alternator. Or I'll ask about after-market amp meters and volt meters properly wired so that no protection is compromised. I suppose a dual battery setup could call for two volt meters … if one is too lazy to stop the vehicle and check the batteries with a $15 voltmeter. Hey, what if it is raining buckets outside and you want to know how the voltage (and amperage) varies with different RPMs and loading. If my amp meter had not told me so much already, I could have had a dead vehicle … in awkward or dangerous situations.
I just discovered this thread and was wondering on an '82 FJ40 50amp ammeter, what are people doing for a fix? Thanks.
From installing a MG in the FJ62 several years ago there were no instructions - only an adaptor plug to connect the MG into the stock wiring harness.
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #195
Hi toyotaman,
It depends on what your problem is.
From what we've learned from fellow cruiser heads with a '79 and later 40 (4th generation cluster with the 50-0-50 Amp gauge) the Amp gauge doesn't work as it should due to a design flaw.
If the gauge works you'll notice a minimum needle movement which doesn't represent the Amps that are flowing through the system. It seems that nobody has a solution for this problem.
Or..... if somebody solved this problem it's not known here.
Tell us what your problem is and maybe we can help you.
Rudi
Same thing. Needle appears to never move or if it does, just a mm.
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #197
You can always ad a separate Amp meter but than you have to run the wiring through the firewall. Most people don't like that.
Altough my Cruiser is a '78 with the 30-0-30 Amp gauge, I've installed a Volt meter. Hooked up right on the fusebox.
Maybe that works for you?
Rudi
Altough my Cruiser is a '78 with the 30-0-30 Amp gauge, I've installed a Volt meter. Hooked up right on the fusebox.
Maybe that works for you?
Rudi
Last edited:
John McVicker
SILVER Star
Hi Rudi,
Can you please give the details on how you hooked up your volt meter, right on the fuse block as you say. I would like to add one also.
I have the stock '75 2f w/Mean Green alt & my stock 30-0-30 amp gage. It's been 10+ years & I don't remember just what I did to allow my stock amp gage to work...but I would like to add a volt meter.
Thanks, John
Can you please give the details on how you hooked up your volt meter, right on the fuse block as you say. I would like to add one also.
I have the stock '75 2f w/Mean Green alt & my stock 30-0-30 amp gage. It's been 10+ years & I don't remember just what I did to allow my stock amp gage to work...but I would like to add a volt meter.
Thanks, John
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
- Thread starter
- #199
This is how I did it. In my case the Volt meter housing is full plastic and the light bulb holder too so I had to run 2 ground wires (1 for the meter and 1 for the light) 1 wire for the + Volt meter and 1 for the + lightbulb.
I used these splice connectors. Very easy to use, put wires in, squeeze with plier and fold lip to close.
Pick one of the 3 wires on the fusebox that are switched. From the top of my head.... the top 4 are always live and the ones on the bottom are switched by the key.
Find the Black/Red wire for the light bulb. Maybe you have to remove the cluster for this.
When it's ready it looks like this
Rudi
I used these splice connectors. Very easy to use, put wires in, squeeze with plier and fold lip to close.
Pick one of the 3 wires on the fusebox that are switched. From the top of my head.... the top 4 are always live and the ones on the bottom are switched by the key.
Find the Black/Red wire for the light bulb. Maybe you have to remove the cluster for this.
--- DISCONNECT THE BATTERY ---
When it's ready it looks like this
Rudi
Last edited:
John McVicker
SILVER Star
Good man, Rudi. Thanks.
John
John
