Builds Chicago builds a 40

[Cruiserdrew]

Ive got a few questions for those who are still tuned in...

1. On the front and rear distal ends of the frame, there are some triangular gusseting plates that attaches to the bumper/ x member. Theyre bolted/ riveted in place...Can you eliminate those, or do those need to be there. I imagine that they can BE 86'd from the project, but Im unsure.

2. How far do I need to outboard the front hangers to accommodate for the 60 series housing?

I woke up thinking about the hanger question and couldnt go back to sleep this AM @ 0430! I was trying to visualize the BEST way to accomplish this with the greatest accuracy.
I got the Ruff stuff kit (as mentioned). Its the 40 series using 60 series axles, but Im currently unsure as to how all this crap is supposed to work.

If anyone has any input, please feel free to post up!

Thanks,

Leave those gussets in place unless you have to take them out.

Outboard about 1.5 inches on each side.

 

[EWheeler]

Here is what I did, doesn't mean it's right, just an example.

1. Outboarded front spring hanger. I recall 1.25-1.5" on each side. Measure the stock 60 perches and go from there. Hopefully you got the custom Ruffstuff perch for the 60 series as it will make things easier on the passenger side of the front axle. (I just ordered one myself as I suspect I have a bent housing and wish I would have used one the first time around)

2. Rear angled crossmembers. 1.5x3x.125 box tubing.

3. Outboarded shackle hanger for the front.

 

[chicago]

Leave those gussets in place unless you have to take them out.

Outboard about 1.5 inches on each side.

Theyre bolt on in the front. The rear HAS to come out. The rear x member back there is pretty mangled from the PO. He had some monstrosity drop hitch bolted to it, and it has started to crack around the bolt holes....No good.

What do those do specifically?

I can weld in new ones if necessary.

Thanks,

K

 

[chicago]

Here is what I did, doesn't mean it's right, just an example.

1. Outboarded front spring hanger. I recall 1.25-1.5" on each side. Measure the stock 60 perches and go from there. Hopefully you got the custom Ruffstuff perch for the 60 series as it will make things easier on the passenger side of the front axle. (I just ordered one myself as I suspect I have a bent housing and wish I would have used one the first time around)

2. Rear angled crossmembers. 1.5x3x.125 box tubing.

3. Outboarded shackle hanger for the front.

Copy that!
Thanks for the pics! Nice job! Like the way you gusseted the hangers.

I did get the diff side perch with the kit that ordered. I thought that it was supposed to come with different angles, but I guess not as I had only gotten one? How does that work? Do you set the diff side plate on there, then cut the top down and weld it together? That is the only thing that really makes sense? What caster are you guyz end up at?

 

[Mace]

I'd put them back in.

I did..

 

[EWheeler]

Keith,

Call Dan and ask him what the default rotation is. I ordered just the perch itself, and chose the 10 degree, though it isn't listed on the description.

FJ40 / FJ60 Diff Cut Spring Perch, New Style [0690177] - $76.00

Not sure what is going on there.


I had to rotate my pinion up 10 degrees to point it directly at the t-case because I will eventually use a DC front driveshaft that is properly balanced. For now, I have a square tube shaft and am using 10 degree steel shims under the leafs to maintain proper caster until I get the motivation to cut and turn that biotch.

 

[chicago]

Keith,

Call Dan and ask him what the default rotation is. I ordered just the perch itself, and chose the 10 degree, though it isn't listed on the description.

FJ40 / FJ60 Diff Cut Spring Perch, New Style [0690177] - $76.00

Not sure what is going on there.


I had to rotate my pinion up 10 degrees to point it directly at the t-case because I will eventually use a DC front driveshaft that is properly balanced. For now, I have a square tube shaft and am using 10 degree steel shims under the leafs to maintain proper caster until I get the motivation to cut and turn that biotch.

Id have to assume at this point that its the 8 deg rotation that he had sent since it came with the "kit"...?
Never noticed that in the description before!

I DO like the NON u bolt set up for that. Never liked the bending of the u bolt to get around the diff...

Thanks,

K

 

[locrwln1]

1. On the front and rear distal ends of the frame,

The job jargon coming out I see.

Jack

 

[rusty_tlc]

Theyre bolt on in the front. The rear HAS to come out. The rear x member back there is pretty mangled from the PO. He had some monstrosity drop hitch bolted to it, and it has started to crack around the bolt holes....No good.

What do those do specifically?

I can weld in new ones if necessary.

Thanks,

K

it might be a good idea to weld some temp brace pieces in before you hack the gussets out.

 

[rusty_tlc]

The job jargon coming out I see.

Jack

I noticed that too.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Those rear brackets reinforce the corners of the frame. That's why I'd leave them. It isn't clear to me that welding them is the way to go. The rivets allow them to give and flex a bit. That's the way the FJ40 frame is designed.

In any case, I think making the rear of the 40 frame more rigid is a good thing, especially if you go with a linked set-up.

Are you going to increase the wheel base, and if so, do you still plan to run leaf springs? I'm very intersted to see how you fit all that driveline length.

Also, Kieth, I am super impressed with the 14 bolt I've been messing with. Are you sure you don't want to run 1 ton axles and 4o inch tires?

 

[rusty_tlc]

....The rivets allow them to give and flex a bit. That's the way the FJ40 frame is designed.

In any case, I think making the rear of the 40 frame more rigid is a good thing.....

Explain please?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Explain please?

If you are going to set it up with links and the hard core works, a more rigid frame is desirable.

Think about IFS front ends. The first thing they do is make the frame more rigid. I'd do the same in a 40, where the full boxing stops at the forward frame hangers.

 

[rusty_tlc]

If you are going to set it up with links and the hard core works, a more rigid frame is desirable.

Think about IFS front ends. The first thing they do is make the frame more rigid. I'd do the same in a 40, where the full boxing stops at the forward frame hangers.

I don't think you can compare IFS to a solid axle link set up. The IFS set up is controlling wheel movement in all axis with the control arms so of course it would need a stiffer frame.

I'm trying to picture in my head the major stress points in a link set-up. I would think they would be where the links connect to the frame and axle, not near the ends of the frame. It seems like coils are going to apply force in pretty much the same direction all the time, with very little rotational force. 3/4 ellipticals would also apply force where they attach to the frame, near the center not at the ends. If anything it seems like a link set up would flex the frame at the end points less than a leaf set-up.

Wouldn't it make more sense to stiffen the frame across the area where the links attach than at the ends?

 

[Mace]

The corner bracing did little to help with the rear frame twisting and bending. It DOES help considerably when you stuff a receiver hitch in the rear bumper and try to yank yourself out. Or if you put a rear suck down winch there.

Link suspensions are much easier on a frame. They provide a lot less twisting stress on a frame. That is why so many people can get away with back halving a rig and running links.

3/4 eliptical is a buggy leaf with conventional leaf springs. 1/4 elip is what Woody and I have on our rigs (1/2 of a leaf spring bolted to the frame).

Chicago, you are going to hard mount the cage to the frame anyway right? That will do a good job of adding the strength you need. It makes the frame MUCH more rigid.

Take some of the 2x3 (or whatever material you are using) and weld in those angular supports. It'll help your rear X member from being twisted by the leaf springs (assuming you are going to mount the shackle hangers on the vertical face of the x member). And when you need to give someone/something a big tug, it'll keep the rear xmember from bending out.


On a wheeling rig, I would not be too concerned about the frame distorting from removal of that rear xmember. But that is your call.

 

[rusty_tlc]

...
3/4 eliptical is a buggy leaf with conventional leaf springs. 1/4 elip is what Woody and I have on our rigs (1/2 of a leaf spring bolted to the frame).
...

That's what I meant, 1/4 elliptical.
From a cost stand point they seem to be a better choice than coils. How do you feel they perform compared to coil with traditional shocks and coil over shocks?

 

[chicago]

Those rear brackets reinforce the corners of the frame. That's why I'd leave them. It isn't clear to me that welding them is the way to go. The rivets allow them to give and flex a bit. That's the way the FJ40 frame is designed.

In any case, I think making the rear of the 40 frame more rigid is a good thing, especially if you go with a linked set-up.

Are you going to increase the wheel base, and if so, do you still plan to run leaf springs? I'm very intersted to see how you fit all that driveline length.

Also, Kieth, I am super impressed with the 14 bolt I've been messing with. Are you sure you don't want to run 1 ton axles and 4o inch tires?

I will be sticking with the leaf springs for the time being. I THINK that I have it worked out so the doubler set up will fit with a reasonable DS length.
Ill be using a Taurus E fan in lieu of the mech. fan, flipping the 60 springs and re drilling the main leaf, then using the 3 position holes on the perches and also kickin the springs all the way back.
Ill do a mock up of course. By the time I get around to the SOA process, the drive-train will be set in stone, so Ill be able to get a good assessment of the situation and be able to fully visualize where everything falls.
As far as the 40 inchers and the tons...I DID really consider the 1 tons, but I (at this point) have NO NEED for 40 in tires. However, I like the idea of the 14 bolt. It seems though that would be just TOO MUCH axle for 37's.

Look forward to seeing what you do with yours though!
I head read that you picked on up.
What are you gonna run in the front?

 

[chicago]

The corner bracing did little to help with the rear frame twisting and bending. It DOES help considerably when you stuff a receiver hitch in the rear bumper and try to yank yourself out. Or if you put a rear suck down winch there.

Link suspensions are much easier on a frame. They provide a lot less twisting stress on a frame. That is why so many people can get away with back halving a rig and running links.

3/4 eliptical is a buggy leaf with conventional leaf springs. 1/4 elip is what Woody and I have on our rigs (1/2 of a leaf spring bolted to the frame).

Chicago, you are going to hard mount the cage to the frame anyway right? That will do a good job of adding the strength you need. It makes the frame MUCH more rigid.

Take some of the 2x3 (or whatever material you are using) and weld in those angular supports. It'll help your rear X member from being twisted by the leaf springs (assuming you are going to mount the shackle hangers on the vertical face of the x member). And when you need to give someone/something a big tug, it'll keep the rear xmember from bending out.


On a wheeling rig, I would not be too concerned about the frame distorting from removal of that rear xmember. But that is your call.

So its a good idea to have those braces in place for the purpose of towing/ tugging? That is a good point. Ill be replacing the rear x member with some 2x3...not quite sure how to I wanna do that just yet. Ive GOTTA incorporate a swing out somehow.
I will be running a full cage as well. It probably wont happen by the time I get her up and running, but it will happen soon after that.
As far as the swing out is concerned, Ive obviously gotta be able to clear the tub... I was half way thinking about using some c channel back there, then using some 2x2 and some gussets for the swing out. Sort of like the MAF bumper set up. OR...using some3x3 square, welding it to the end of the frame. That should be pleanty to clear, and I could also do like E wheeler did and run tubing from the bumper to the frame, much like the stock x member set up...
Any ideas on that?

 

[chicago]

BTW, the frame is cleaned and ready for the motor set!
Gonna put the tub, bib, fenders etc. back on, get Locrawlin (and any of the other BBCNN guyz) over here and get this BIEOTCH set! Once that is in position, the SOA will commence. Getting CLOSER to this being SOMETHING other than a wet dream.
BTW...The plasma is the SHIZZLE! About 30 sec. for each rivet and theyre GONE! Its SOOOOOO NICE!

 

[chicago]

The job jargon coming out I see.

Jack

What can I say?