I've stalled the Warn XD9000 on my '86 truck several times on some really good stucks. We all know 80 series trucks are very heavy which is why I went w/ the M12000.
Champion 10,000lb or Warn M8000 Winch?
- Thread starter rdang
- Start date
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I too was on a budget when I was looking for a winch, I just happened to be in Ohio where Summit is and saw one in person before I bought it. Call Summit and and get the re-badged T-Maxx 10k, I bought one and it has been great, no issues what so ever. It is a T-Maxx winch with a summit sticker on it. Every thing else on its says T-Maxx.
The Summit is a great deal and works well. But like anything, the way you care for it makes all the difference in the world whether or not it's going to be there for you when you need it.
You live in the rust-belt so to speak so it is going to rust. Especially the cable and any metal area on the casing that gets scratched up. If you cover it and make sure to run it in/out for a few minutes each month, it will continue to work well for you. It is important to run it regularly to get any water or debris out of it -- most folks don't read the owner's manual cover to cover and miss that. The t-max has a series wound motor with SIMILAR specs to the Warns. If you read the fine print on the harbor freight winches it shows the rated capacity is with a double-pull. So basically it is a 4000-4500lb winch unless used with a pulley. That would explain why many of them fail when pulling a stuck cruiser.
You live in the rust-belt so to speak so it is going to rust. Especially the cable and any metal area on the casing that gets scratched up. If you cover it and make sure to run it in/out for a few minutes each month, it will continue to work well for you. It is important to run it regularly to get any water or debris out of it -- most folks don't read the owner's manual cover to cover and miss that. The t-max has a series wound motor with SIMILAR specs to the Warns. If you read the fine print on the harbor freight winches it shows the rated capacity is with a double-pull. So basically it is a 4000-4500lb winch unless used with a pulley. That would explain why many of them fail when pulling a stuck cruiser.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
I have a MM E-12000 in my Tencha .. thought it have around 2 - 3 years with no real abuse, but it work just fine the times that I needed.
My next winch should be a T-Max .. I'm not in the Outback Challenge, never wheel alone, I like to have my own stuff but if one day start with malfunction simple get help from my friends of repire mine ..
My next winch should be a T-Max .. I'm not in the Outback Challenge, never wheel alone, I like to have my own stuff but if one day start with malfunction simple get help from my friends of repire mine ..
Go with a Warn and keep a 16000 LB snatch block handy. That should do it.
Try eBay. I've seen an M12000 went for ~$450 lately and a discontinued M10000 for mere $400. Mine is a Warn HS9.5 but have yet to install it.
Try eBay. I've seen an M12000 went for ~$450 lately and a discontinued M10000 for mere $400. Mine is a Warn HS9.5 but have yet to install it.
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Friend of mine had the Champion on his 60, it stopped working after 18 months (and Costco took it back, love them!). Someone posted a great deal on the M8 in the Recovery section, around $500 shipped - new.
You all know how I feel about this stuff. Recovery gear is like your brakes. They absolutely cannot fail. Save your money and buy the correct winch for the vehicle. Buy it once.
The 8K winch is underpowered for an 80. End of story. Yes, a snatch block can work...if you have that luxury in the particular situation. Sometimes you just don't.
Also keep in mind that winch ratings are on the first wrap of the drum. If you browse to Warn's web site they give pull ratings for each wrap so you know what you're buying.
All of the other issues that have been mentioned such as cable ratings, cable condition and pull points are very valid and need to be STRONGLY considered before making a purchase.
And finally, recovery gear is called recovery gear for a reason. You'll not be needing it in your driveway.
The 8K winch is underpowered for an 80. End of story. Yes, a snatch block can work...if you have that luxury in the particular situation. Sometimes you just don't.
Also keep in mind that winch ratings are on the first wrap of the drum. If you browse to Warn's web site they give pull ratings for each wrap so you know what you're buying.
All of the other issues that have been mentioned such as cable ratings, cable condition and pull points are very valid and need to be STRONGLY considered before making a purchase.
And finally, recovery gear is called recovery gear for a reason. You'll not be needing it in your driveway.
- Thread starter
- #28
So "go big or go home" eh?
I agree and I really do want to go with Warn... I'd just rather not have to save up for the next year to buy the one I need/want. I kinda figured that the M8000 would have troubles which is why I asked if it's better to get a good underpowered winch, or a more powerful inexpensive brand.
How about the Warn XD9000 good enough, maybe the 9.5xp?? Or is the M12000 the only way to go? Crap... Now I'm getting out of control.
I agree and I really do want to go with Warn... I'd just rather not have to save up for the next year to buy the one I need/want. I kinda figured that the M8000 would have troubles which is why I asked if it's better to get a good underpowered winch, or a more powerful inexpensive brand.
How about the Warn XD9000 good enough, maybe the 9.5xp?? Or is the M12000 the only way to go? Crap... Now I'm getting out of control.
Well...sort of. I suppose in some or maybe even in most situations the 8K will be enough. The problem is that you NEVER can predict the situation. Too many variables in play. And the ONE time you need it, it won't be there to save your skin. And when you find yourself in that situation the difference in cost suddenly becomes irrelevant. Sort of like seatbelts. I never "really" need them. But I do wear them all the time.
No such thing as too much pulling power. No such thing as "strong enough" recovery gear.
FJBen
SILVER Star
Exactly...it's a tough call. You can (and people have) been in situations where they stall out a Warn 12K winch. 
Would I love to have a 12K hell ya! but reality is, there are far more important mods for ME at the moment. I have a 8K Ramsey worm drive with 150' of cable. I've heard it's more powerful than say an M8000 or XD9000...but slower than hell.
I never wheel alone, I don't get into really crazy stuff with this rig but anything is possible (deep snow/surprise mud) you can "what if" forever if it's going to be big enough or not for so and so situation.
If you only have so much money. I'd go Warn 8K, get extra line and a snatchblock. Using that snatchblock or pulleys correctly makes 8K a WHOLE lot stronger if you have the extra line/space to use it.
If you must use the winch all the time (20+ times a year) no question BIG WARN.
Would I love to have a 12K hell ya! but reality is, there are far more important mods for ME at the moment. I have a 8K Ramsey worm drive with 150' of cable. I've heard it's more powerful than say an M8000 or XD9000...but slower than hell.
I never wheel alone, I don't get into really crazy stuff with this rig but anything is possible (deep snow/surprise mud) you can "what if" forever if it's going to be big enough or not for so and so situation.
If you only have so much money. I'd go Warn 8K, get extra line and a snatchblock. Using that snatchblock or pulleys correctly makes 8K a WHOLE lot stronger if you have the extra line/space to use it.
If you must use the winch all the time (20+ times a year) no question BIG WARN.
Just bring more pulleys!
There’s a compromise to everything. And when it comes to winches there is winch weight, size and price considerations.
A warn M8000 is 74lbs and can be had for around $600. A warn M12000 is 136lbs and is about $1200, so for about 60% increase in capacity, you’re almost doubling your weight and cost.
It all has to be factored in. Frankly, if someone thought they desperately needed a 12,000lb winch instead of an 8000lb one, I’d recommend investing in duel lockers and good tires first, because then they'd at least have a prayer of getting out if the only way out was backwards.
Because a 12,000 winch on the front is just dead weight when you need to be winched from the rear and anyone who’s been stuck, knows that about half the time, going back the way you came is far wiser than going foward and getting more stuck.
If we could build our rigs using on the most expensive toys, we would, but for most of us, the build process is all about comprise and priorities of a budget. A 12,000 winch on an 80 with stock street tires and open diffs is just silly. A rig with a mild lift, 33 off road tires, at least one locker and an 8000lb winch is far more prepared.
A warn M8000 is 74lbs and can be had for around $600. A warn M12000 is 136lbs and is about $1200, so for about 60% increase in capacity, you’re almost doubling your weight and cost.
It all has to be factored in. Frankly, if someone thought they desperately needed a 12,000lb winch instead of an 8000lb one, I’d recommend investing in duel lockers and good tires first, because then they'd at least have a prayer of getting out if the only way out was backwards.
Because a 12,000 winch on the front is just dead weight when you need to be winched from the rear and anyone who’s been stuck, knows that about half the time, going back the way you came is far wiser than going foward and getting more stuck.
If we could build our rigs using on the most expensive toys, we would, but for most of us, the build process is all about comprise and priorities of a budget. A 12,000 winch on an 80 with stock street tires and open diffs is just silly. A rig with a mild lift, 33 off road tires, at least one locker and an 8000lb winch is far more prepared.
my comments will fly in the face of many on this board.
I was in the same position as you and asked the same questions as you.
I ended up settling on a summit racing 12,500 lbs winch which is actually a T-max. I have used it now 3 times and it has not let me down even in the slightest way. It was much cheaper than the warn. I think (trying to remember correctly) i had it to my door at right around $600. THere is a thread on the 80's tech section right now of a new warn failing due to water in the winch. So, just something to think about as you could buy two t-max (summit) winches for the price of 1 warn.
I was in the same position as you and asked the same questions as you.
I ended up settling on a summit racing 12,500 lbs winch which is actually a T-max. I have used it now 3 times and it has not let me down even in the slightest way. It was much cheaper than the warn. I think (trying to remember correctly) i had it to my door at right around $600. THere is a thread on the 80's tech section right now of a new warn failing due to water in the winch. So, just something to think about as you could buy two t-max (summit) winches for the price of 1 warn.
- Thread starter
- #34
You bring up a very good point Brian894X4 as a winch was the last thing I wanted to get with my 4Runner... my next mod was going to be an ARB front locker, then bumpers, then winch.
With my 80, it's already got the front locker, bumper, and a set of decent tires, so a winch is my next logical addition (for me anyway).
Definitely a great point which should be considered for those that have street tires and open diffs.
With my 80, it's already got the front locker, bumper, and a set of decent tires, so a winch is my next logical addition (for me anyway).
Definitely a great point which should be considered for those that have street tires and open diffs.
- Thread starter
- #35
Because of the quality of the cheaper winches... how does everyone feel about the cheaper winches that attach to the hitch? The winch would be kept inside the vehicle or garage most of the time and only taken out on wheeling trips, lessening the chance of failure due to weather.
I know you can't do a lot of side pulling with the hitch mount winches (from what I've read anyway)... but I figure most of my pulling will be out of mud, so generally a straight line - or is that a bad assumption?
I'm still thinking about the M8000 though as it seems to be highly recommended by most even if it is under powered. Still looking at other options. I know a lot of members are recommending other brands like T-Max and Ramsey so that may be a consideration as well.
I know you can't do a lot of side pulling with the hitch mount winches (from what I've read anyway)... but I figure most of my pulling will be out of mud, so generally a straight line - or is that a bad assumption?
I'm still thinking about the M8000 though as it seems to be highly recommended by most even if it is under powered. Still looking at other options. I know a lot of members are recommending other brands like T-Max and Ramsey so that may be a consideration as well.
another point i will make, and again many will argue this point. I have first hand been in a situation where there is no way in heck that dual lockers would have gotten me out. I could not under any circumstance back out of the situation. Only way out was with a winch or tugged from behind by another vehicle. Actually, that vehicle got stuck trying to tug me out. We were miles from anyone or any help, dark outside, cold. I really wanted a winch. I was high-centered on both diffs. Wheels not even touching dirt.
Again, this weekend i was glad i had the 12,500 lbs. winch. Reason was i had to "right" a rig that had flopped. It was on a tight trail with a side hill drop off. I really couldn't get much distance to give my winch it's full pulling capacity, and no one had a snatch block handy, so i had to get really close. I believe if i had a smaller winch, it would not have pulled him over.
On a big truck like the 80, if it is stuck, you better either have several snatch blocks and tree savers, and trees to help with the pull, OR, you better have a big winch. JMHO.
Again, this weekend i was glad i had the 12,500 lbs. winch. Reason was i had to "right" a rig that had flopped. It was on a tight trail with a side hill drop off. I really couldn't get much distance to give my winch it's full pulling capacity, and no one had a snatch block handy, so i had to get really close. I believe if i had a smaller winch, it would not have pulled him over.
On a big truck like the 80, if it is stuck, you better either have several snatch blocks and tree savers, and trees to help with the pull, OR, you better have a big winch. JMHO.
I doubted the Warn M8000s capability on a big wagon, but Uglibus runs one on his 40" tired V8 powered 80. I've seen that winch in action on his rig and it performs wonderfully. They run about $515 or so with free shipping if you do your homework on the net.
The Champion does have a permanent magnet and draws close to 500 amps when pulling. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you better have a better than stock charging system to feed that beast.
The other plus for the Warn is that you can get parts now and in 10 years. Costco is great but if you have a broken part where are you going to get a part?
The Champion does have a permanent magnet and draws close to 500 amps when pulling. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you better have a better than stock charging system to feed that beast.
The other plus for the Warn is that you can get parts now and in 10 years. Costco is great but if you have a broken part where are you going to get a part?
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
It depends of the kind of OffRoad that you like or you do .. good example are the sliders .. priority # one overthere in the west .. but useless for us .. in most of cases ..
Go wheeling down here without a winch it's asking for troubles ..
I think a winch that could be mounted front or rear on a hitch type mount is a wise winch set up and addresses the issue of a front winch only being good for about half the stuck situations. The only thing is, you shouldn't rely on a standard hitch. It has to be a custom mounting that is as strong as if you were permanantly mounting a winch. It has to tie directly to the strongest points of the frame and be reinforced, since you'll be pulling from one small point.
It doesn't look pretty or cool, but it addresses a bunch of issues. You can leave the winch and weight at home when you don't need it, you can mount it front or rear. The problelm with storing a 100lb item inside your car is that it's hard to secure and 100lb+ item in a major accident or rollover is a certain killer. It's one thing to have that roll of loose toilet paper hit you in the head in an accident.... a winch is definately going to hurt...
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Pick up a Superwinch EP 9.0. You can find em' between $500 and $600 on ebay.
