Carb questions, 1972 FJ40 with F engine

[TheIglu]

Ok, I've had her a week. She runs rough, stalls when first input of throttle and is running noticibly lean. So I ordered a carb rebuild kit from CCOT.

Just pulled the carb.

1:

Opened the top plate up. What is this plugged up hole? (shiney metal hole near bottom of pic right next to accel pump hole)

It looks like a bolt or something was broken off in there, or filled with metal epoxy.

2:

My venturi's for the primary and secondary seem reversed. The primary (lower in pic) has a "2" stamped on it while the primary (upper in pic) has nothing. It looks as though the brass tube "hole" on the primary positioned (the "2" one) has the larger holes. Issue? I'd guess not, but who knows, I'm used to motorcycle carbs.

3:

What is this "supposed" to do? There was no vac line attached to it. The diaphram functions fine. There is also a vac port on my carb spacer block that is not being utilized and is open to the environment.

4:

I ordered a carb rebuild ($39~, I figured the most expensive one I've found listed would come with the most parts) from CCOT. This is what came in it:

ONE venturi gasket? I stated it was for a 3/72 FJ. Were they wrong or was I? It is quite possible that I don't have the original carb I guess.



That's it for now. I stopped taking it apart due to me realizing something was horribly wrong. The kit is pretty crappy and only includes random parts, I have a different carb than original or I'm smoking all sorts of crack and Drain-O. It very well could be any one of those three.

Would you guys be able to help the new guy? So far I've logged approx 10 miles on my FJ and the gas tank ruptured (been patched before, new plastic tank is on it's way from CCOT).

Would you recommend a rebuilt carb? I would rather not spend the $$$ on a carb that I know I can rebuild provided I have the correct info and parts.

Thanks guys!

 

[Pin_Head]

1. The aluminum thing is the spring retainer for the accelerator pump outlet check valve. It comes out. Turn it over on a towel and tap it, but be careful as there is also a tiny spring and ball in there. The brass dealybob is the "slow jet". Do not mix this up with the secondary slow jet. Write down the numbers on the jets and which holes they go in. Same thing with the main jets. On many carbs, the secondary is chromed.

2. I don't think that the stamped number means anything important. On some carbs, the secondary venturi has a single ring, but the primary is always a double ring type like you have.


3. It is the throttle positioner / choke breaker. If there is no vacuum line, you may as well leve it off.

4. Jim Chenoweth (FJ40Jim on this board) sells better, more complete kits for not much more. His kits also include the diaphragm for the vacuum secondary and a new float.

Looks like you have some junk in the bowl that could account for the symptoms you describe.
Clean it in Berrymans Chemtool carb dip or equivalent. Do not dip any rubber parts that you want to reuse. Do not remove the butterflies from their shafts. Only disconnect one end of the linkage.
After dipping it, rinse it in solvent and verify that all of the tiny holes and passages in each part are open and clean by blowing them out with compressed air or spray type carb cleaner. I like to run a piece of fishing line through them to make sure.

Reassemble and adjust according to the factory service manual.

 

[TheIglu]

1. The aluminum thing is the spring retainer for the accelerator pump outlet check valve. It comes out. Turn it over on a towel and tap it, but be careful as there is also a tiny spring and ball in there. The brass dealybob is the "slow jet". Do not mix this up with the secondary slow jet. Write down the numbers on the jets and which holes they go in. Same thing with the main jets. On many carbs, the secondary is chromed.

2. I don't think that the stamped number means anything important. On some carbs, the secondary venturi has a single ring, but the primary is always a double ring type like you have.


3. It is the throttle positioner / choke breaker. If there is no vacuum line, you may as well leve it off.

4. Jim Chenoweth (FJ40Jim on this board) sells better, more complete kits for not much more. His kits also include the diaphragm for the vacuum secondary and a new float.

Looks like you have some junk in the bowl that could account for the symptoms you describe.
Clean it in Berrymans Chemtool carb dip or equivalent. Do not dip any rubber parts that you want to reuse. Do not remove the butterflies from their shafts. Only disconnect one end of the linkage.
After dipping it, rinse it in solvent and verify that all of the tiny holes and passages in each part are open and clean by blowing them out with compressed air or spray type carb cleaner. I like to run a piece of fishing line through them to make sure.

Reassemble and adjust according to the factory service manual.

My dad has a supersonic parts cleaner that this thing will fit right into. Perhaps I'll bring it over and let it vibrate overnight in some rubber safe cleaner we have.

 

[Pin_Head]

You mean ultrasonic?

I just cleaned mine last month in a bath type ultrasonic machine in a bowl of methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) because you can't buy carb dip in the people's republic of California anymore. It worked great, but didn't come out as shiny as in carb dip. You still have to blow out the holes and passages and verify that they are open. It is best to blow them out in the opposite direction that the fuel flows if possible as dirt tends to come from the bowl and get stuck.

 

[TheIglu]

You mean ultrasonic?

I just cleaned mine last month in a bath type ultrasonic machine in a bowl of methylene chloride (aka dichloromethane) because you can't buy carb dip in the people's republic of California anymore. It worked great, but didn't come out as shiny as in carb dip. You still have to blow out the holes and passages and verify that they are open. It is best to blow them out in the opposite direction that the fuel flows if possible as dirt tends to come from the bowl and get stuck.

Since my CCOT carb kit only came with randomly chosen gaskets and seals (really now, why only give one seal if there are two of the same type in the carb?????? very dissappointed) I won't be taking it apart completely. If I decide to get a real kit that comes with everything I'll do it right. Perhaps that's the best way to go.

 

[Pin_Head]

Your chances of being able to re-use a nozzle gasket are pretty good, so I wouldn't skip disassembly and cleaning of the nozzles, especially with that grit in the bowl. Doing it over is demoralizing, so do it right the first time.

 

[TheIglu]

Ok, pulled her all apart. Looks good so far. The little aluminum plug that goes on top of the accl pump discharge spring/ball is mangled and I will need a new one. Any recommendations or should I just hit up my somewhat local Toyota parts counter?

Also, the "power valve" that sits on a shelf near the bottom of the bowl, where does it exit? I have been blasting carb cleaner in there for a while and I can't get the hose in a pressure spot. My air compressor nozzle valve broke so I may bring the carb body to work tomorrow to use theirs to try to get some air through there.

This carb really isn't that hard, I'm surprised more people don't rebuild it themselves.

Thanks for the help guys!!!

 

[crusier72]

You are doing good from the looks of it. They are pritty simple once you get them apart. I'm an hour west from you, we should hook up and wheel.

 

[TheIglu]

You are doing good from the looks of it. They are pritty simple once you get them apart. I'm an hour west from you, we should hook up and wheel.

http://www.ne4roc.org/forum/

Sign on and lets go!

 

[Pin_Head]

You may be able to get a plunger at your local Toyota dealer. If not, give Jim C or Mark Algazy a shout.

The power valve is basically an auxilliary main jet, so it "exits" through the same places the main jets do.

Aisans aren't the most complicated carb you can find, but they will spank you if you mix up what goes in which holes and which way the linkage goes. There are some useful pictures on sor.com if you need a comparison.

 

[TheIglu]

You may be able to get a plunger at your local Toyota dealer. If not, give Jim C or Mark Algazy a shout.

The power valve is basically an auxilliary main jet, so it "exits" through the same places the main jets do.

Aisans aren't the most complicated carb you can find, but they will spank you if you mix up what goes in which holes and which way the linkage goes. There are some useful pictures on sor.com if you need a comparison.

I should be ok getting the holes back together correctly. I marked which things were what, where they went and didn't leave the little stuff apart very long.

I called my Toyota dealer parts guys this afternoon. They are the ones the guy from Cruiser Solutions uses. They told me anywhere from 1 day to a month to get that little part. We'll find out tomorrrow.

My gas tank comes in next Thursday. Hopefully I'll have the carb back together by then!

 

[TheIglu]

Quick question:

One of the flathead screws that holds the carb together has a hole in it all the way through, like a breather. Where does this screw go? Had I noticed the screw with the hole when dissassembling the carb I'm sure I would have noted it's position.

Thanks guys!

 

[Pin_Head]

That screw goes up through the bottom of the throttle body casting in the middle of the carb between the promary and secondary. The hole is a vacuum port.

 

[65swb45]

As usual, Pin_Head's explanation is pretty good. Two things to note tho. The first you probably already discovered. Under your stopper [the aluminum plug] above the accel pump discharge nozzle, you have a brass counterweight, not a spring, as Charlie indicated. The spring is used on the 2F carbs, the brass counterweight on the F.

Second, you have a small rubber ring in your kit [which BTW SHOULD have had two 'nozzle' gaskets, not one] that is supposed to seal the aluminum stopper when you reattach the air horn to the fuel bowl with the new bowl gasket. That little round ring should be sufficient to seal the chamber EVEN IF the stopper is slightly deformed.

I would not postpone rebuilding the carb to wait for a new one from Toyota. I would reassemble the carb with the rubber ring and see if the chamber is sealing. You will know if it isn't because when you push down on the accelerator pump, gas will leak out of the bowl gasket above the stopper if the ring isn't sealing.

Does that make sense?

Mark A.

 

[TheIglu]

Does that make sense?

Mark A.

Sure does.

Ok, this clears a few things up.

1. I guess I have a 2f carb. It has a little spring in there. Everything else looks like an F carb in the diagrams. How do I tell for sure?

2. I am hopelessly lost and need to rebuild the whole thing with the correct carb kit apparently.

3. The vehicle is running lean right now, this could be why. I noticed the screw in my parts bucket a day ago. I put the carb back together a long while ago. Obviously I missed that particular screw.

Sigh, back to the carb....

I also have available to me ANOTHER "F" carb. Perhaps I should just rebuild that one using one of Jim's "complete" carb kit? Probably makes sense.

 

[surfpig]

As usual, Pin_Head's explanation is pretty good. Two things to note tho. The first you probably already discovered. Under your stopper [the aluminum plug] above the accel pump discharge nozzle, you have a brass counterweight, not a spring, as Charlie indicated. The spring is used on the 2F carbs, the brass counterweight on the F....
Does that make sense?

Mark A.

<Slight hijack, my apologies...>

Mark:

When rebuilding my (2F) carb awhile back, my little spring went "poing" into the lawn. . I put in a counterweight setup like in the F carbs. Seems to work OK, do you see any problem with that?

<end hijack>

 

[65swb45]

<Slight hijack, my apologies...>

Mark:

When rebuilding my (2F) carb awhile back, my little spring went "poing" into the lawn. . I put in a counterweight setup like in the F carbs. Seems to work OK, do you see any problem with that?

<end hijack>

Nope, not in this case. Form follows function. The functions here are simple: to provide a limited range of motion for the check ball, some means to 'help' the checkball return to the bottom of the chamber, and some means to seal the chamber. If the parts do the job, then........they do the job.

Note: it is becoming more prevalent to see F type counterweights and stoppers in 2F carbs because the spring that was used in the 2F carbs is no longer available from the dealer. IIRC, Jim C. noted this on a thread I saw about a year ago.

 

[bgray]

Hey Guys,

I saw this old 72 carb rebuild thread between TheIglu and Pinhead and wanted to follow up on a similar question.

I'm rebuilding the stock carb on my 73 FJ40. The "aluminum plug" noted by TheIglu I believe is called a "stopper" according to the FSM & sites like sor. In my carb, it appears the stopper was not installed. At least it isn't obvious if it is. On my carb, the hole it goes into appears empty except for a small sleeve or other installed about a half inch into the hole. So on mine I basically have the gasket at the top and nothing else. Immediate below the gasket is a small brass nozzle. Let me know if a picture will help and I can post.

TheIglu posted a picture of the stopper, but the image has been removed as it was 4+ years ago. Does someone have a top down picture of the stopper -- ideally installed in the carb? I know that sor has a diagram, but it isn't obvious what it looks like top down and installed. I'm planning to order a new stopper & discharge weight to look at it first hand, but thought someone might have an image of one first.

Second question: How would it impact the running of the FJ with the stopper and discharge weight out as this is how the PO had it set up. I can't speak to how it ran before as the cruiser was not running when I got it.

thanks,
Brian

 

[cruiserbrett]

Go raid a toyota carb at the junkyard. lots of parts are interchangable.as noted above, the spring and ball are more common to modern carbs which you will find more easily in the junkyard.

 

[bgray]

Thanks for the response Cruiserbrett. Getting another carb is a great idea for parts and for comparison.

In the mean time, any chance you or others have a picture of what the stopper looks like when installed into the carb? Again, I'm not 100% sure mine isn't already installed and I just can't get it out; or, it was simply never reinstalled by PO when rebuilt last.

thanks,
Brian