Car not moving - gears not engaging (2 Viewers)

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Since my transmission is completely useless in its current state,and I guess one could argue that I should consider replacing the whole gearbox system, then I am tempted to think a little radically.

What if i bite the bullet and try to add 3 more liters of transmission oil (in order to reach the recommended 15 liters for A442F transmission)? In other words, I would be ignoring the distick readings and instead relying on recommended dry fill capacity.

To be safer, I could progressively add 1, then 2, then 3 liters as I check performance at each stage. Obviously, the dipstick reading will go way above limit (in a very scary way). Who knows, with some magic, it may make the gears shift properly. Just thinking aloud.
 
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You've twice mentioned "TO". Need to make sure following "from" also. Which I likely is, but needs checking.
Your mechanic should be able to read A/T temp. :hmm:

I find it interesting your A/T temp range, as posted above, so wide (50-80C ((122f-176F)). The difference in level from 122f to 176F, would be a lot. IIDK, but perhaps a ~1L.
Sorry, did I post any temperature readings? If so, then I dd so by mistake because I haven't read the temps.
 
Since my transmission is completely useless in its current state,and I guess one could argue that I should consider replacing the whole gearbox system, then I am tempted to think a little radically.

What if i bite the bullet and try to add 3 more liters of transmission oil (in order to reach the recommended 15 liters for A442F transmission)? In other words, I would be ignoring the distick readings and instead relying on recommended dry fill capacity.

To be safer, I could progressively add 1, then 2, then 3 liters as I check performance at each stage. Obviously, the dipstick reading will go way above limit (in a very scary way). Who knows, with some magic, it may make the gears shift properly. Just thinking aloud.
You can try. Start out cold engine & A/T, start shift through all gear and check level while still cold. It should show low on dip stick, before reaching operating temp.
Sorry, did I post any temperature readings? If so, then I dd so by mistake because I haven't read the temps.
No. I was referring to a post showing proper A/T temps, as shown in FSM procedure.
 
You can try. Start out cold engine & A/T, start shift through all gear and check level while still cold. It should show low on dip stick, before reaching operating temp.

No. I was referring to a post showing proper A/T temps, as shown in FSM procedure.
I see, thanks.

Dipstick level is already at max. I cannot rely on it anymore. Actually, i should even remove some oil if i have to respect dipstick.
 
Thank you very much.

The transmission was actually fully drained - even torque converter.

I have use the car with the current dipstick for the past 6 years - and I always maintained oil at the right dipstick level without any issues.

Transmission cooler? Not quite sure how to answer that, but will ask my mechanic.
I think this comment may cancel out your new concept of trying to fill to the specification for your transmission.

If it's been accurate and running right for many years, then it should be trusted. Or did I miss a post that makes you think the dipstick may not be right?

This is a tough one, hope your transmission isn't toasted.
 
Have we discussed the possibility that the dipstick may have been replaced with one that isn't the proper one/length for the A442F?
Maybe it's for an A343F? Do both fit?
OP claims he has been using that dipstick for past 6 years and has monitored fluid levels with no issues until now. Unless someone mixed it up when at mechanics but chances r slim.
 
Thanks for the last three comments. Let me try to address the issues pointed out, especially to clarify about the dipstick.

The transmission failure happened about one week and three days ago while I was driving. We towed the car home.

Mechanics removed gearbox from my home and took it away for repair (basically replacing clutch plates). They brought it back and fixed it. All along the dipstick and other parts were in my home garage. So dipstick could not have got mixed up.

When they fixed back everything, we filled 11.4 liters of oil (just because I had read somewhere that my type of Landcruiser uses 11.4 liters or thereabouts). The car was not on level ground, so dipstick reading could not be relied upon at that time. But mechanic said slope does not affect the reading. I lost the argument. I test-drove the car, but gears were slipping. Mechanic blamed me for putting only 11.4 liters. So we topped up to about 13 liters, but no change in transmission behavior

Now, we took the car to the mechanic's garage and removed gearbox again from there. Of course I left the car there, but I do not want to believe that the dipstick changed. Mechanic took gearbox for a second repair (this time he replaced the clutch plates for gear one, two and reverse, I understand). Once installed, they called me and I bought oil and took it there. This time, I made sure the mechanic added oil by himself to avoid blame games. He instructed his boys to add oil. They added 13 liters. When he checked dipstick reading, he decided to remove one liter, meaning that 12 liters remained in. Then he went for a test drive - with me seated besides. Gears were slipping the same way as before. At least now he could not blame me.

Actually, while at the mechanic's garage, they dropped the gearbox again to try and clean valve covers (or something like that). All efforts were in futility.

Long story short. I decided to drive the car home and park it as I continue to research and ask questions. Meanwhile, another mechanic has asked me to take the car to him. I know he will immediately strip the gearbox. I want to exercise patience as I get some ideas.

For the last about four days, the car is parked in my home garage. I just try driving it a bit everyday while continuing reading. Yesterday, I found an issue which had completely reduced the power of the car. I think the mechanics had tried to remove the air-cleaner box, but stopped midway. They had already loosened clamps on both sides. So the car had no power at all because there was no air suction into the engine. I had earlier mistaken the power loss to be related to the transmission issue. I secured the clamps and the car regained its feel of full power (it sort of roars at the snorkel mouth as it ingests air).

The gearbox slipping remains unresolved.

Meanwhile someone advised a few days ago on this thread that I check for the transmission type as indicated on the engine bay. When I check, it indicates that my transmission is A442F. This is what is driving my thoughts that may be I am supposed to use 15 liters of oil (because all indications are that A442F transmission uses 15 liters on dry fill). I tend to imagine that the gearbox is slipping because we have not put enough oil. I think we can rule out any problem with the type of oil (D2 from Total). It was recommended to me by our local Toyota office because they said Toyota oil is not suitable for older cars.

That is it for now. I await more ideas from you.
 
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This video seems to indicate that while the capacity may be 15 L, that it's only possible to drain a little less than half that (about 6 Liters) without removing and draining the torque converter. (In other words, the torque converter holds a ton of ATF) so if THAT'S the case with yours (that for whatever reason the torque converter was already full or near full - which is common practice to fill before installing) than even 11.X would have potentially been overfilling it.

Just an observation...hope it or this video helps in some way.

 
This video seems to indicate that while the capacity may be 15 L, that it's only possible to drain a little less than half that (about 6 Liters) without removing and draining the torque converter. (In other words, the torque converter holds a ton of ATF) so if THAT'S the case with yours (that for whatever reason the torque converter was already full or near full - which is common practice to fill before installing) than even 11.X would have potentially been overfilling it.

Just an observation...hope it or this video helps in some way.


In all cases where we have removed the gearbox, we are draining all the oil, including that in the torque converter. While reinstalling torque converter, we first put in some new oil which we are counting as part of the quoted number of liters.
 
I want to try simple strategies first before i allow someone to pull down the gearbox the fourth time in a row.

I understand the valve body can be removed without pulling down the gearbox.

I also understand that a bad valve body may show the current symptoms: delayed shifting, erratic shifting, slipping, etc.

Is there a way that a transmission specialist can test the status of a valve body? If so, then i guess we could try removing it for testing.

The transmission oil inside is still very clear and smells right. I have driven with it for hardly 30 miles. In a space of one week, i have put in new oil three times, i.e. everytime they put back the gearbox. I have so far bought nearly 40 liters of oil.

I appreciate any insights.
 
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You maintained level of A/T for 6 years. You made no mention, as I recall. Of: D&F, flushes or adding any. So I assume just checked level, smell and color.

Personal, these days I flush all as a PM. This is especially true of 04-08, which were all factory underfilled.
You may have a bad Torque converter. :hmm:

This thread, has been a bit difficult for me. First, you've a A442F, which I never see. Second, you keep stating mechanic took "gear box". Which I assume you mean A/T (Automatic Transmission). We use gear oil in gear boxes, and ATF (Automatic Transmission fluid) in A/T. We've a gear box attached to A/T. It's call a transfer case, which is what CDL, switch on dash, locks to give equal power to front and rear differentials. A/T have clutch plates.

I work on 100 series USA models. Which is what most all of the 100 series tech section postings are about. All (A350F & A750F) transmission problems I've personally seen. I resolved with a proper full 12 qt. flush and setting A/T level properly. Other than, a small percentage of 2000 transmission that failed. We don't see much in USA 100 series, not related to ATF. Of which mixing ATF's or low fluid are the two common causes of issues. Overfill would take much more use time, do cause drivability issue if at all. But can result in poor lubrications, do to foaming.

I saw in above video, A/T A442F in the 80/105 series. I wondering if you may find more help in the 80 series tech section.

Anyway, One reason I like a full flush, rather than drain and fill. Is I've no idea of what fluid or mix of fluid in the A/T. Drain and fill has it benefits. But most times is done to late (fluid is already very nasty). Also what fluid used, may not mix well with what's in the A/T . Resulting in foaming, or worst.

Knowing the history of your transmission. Driving conditions, towing, deep water, drain and fills, full flush. May shed some light, on why issues in the first place.

As I understand it. Your Mechanic took A/T to a specialist. The specialist, can tell what he did to the A/T and why. If he replaced clutch plates twice, and is test transmission or at least knows what he's doing. Than something else is going on. He likely has pictures or the clutches plates he can show you.

Let assume the issue is not something else, unrelated to A/T. Let assume the A/T shop knows their stuff and found bad clutch plates. Which, If was me and came back. I'd have the second if not also the first set of plates or pictures of.

This clutch material ground up an flowing through the system. May have damage the Torque converter as bad fluid may have. Your ATF flow may be bad, and getting very hot. Starving clutch plates of ATF lube, damaging them again.

Below is a simple search in on bad Torque converter:
Following symptoms of a bad converter will help you get timely assistance from a professional auto technician.
  • GEARS SLIPPAGE. ...
  • ACCELERATION LOSS. ...
  • ROUGH IDLING. ...
  • OVERHEATING TRANSMISSION. ...
  • NO GEAR SHIFT. ...
  • SHUDDERING AND JERKING. ...
  • NOISE FROM TRANSMISSION. ...
  • CONTAMINATED TRANSMISSION FLUID



Thank you very much.

The transmission was actually fully drained - even torque converter.

I have use the car with the current dipstick for the past 6 years - and I always maintained oil at the right dipstick level without any issues.

Transmission cooler? Not quite sure how to answer that, but will ask my mechanic.
"even the TQ" The TQ of the 100 series hold about 6L IIRC. I'd assume the 105 hold about the same. We do not want to start up with a drained TQ. I would think, provided better than halve full, it would be okay to start up, with 11 qts added as you first did. My bet is, TQ was never fully drain anyway.

Okay, I am trying to follow the procedure according to guidelines.

This morning I started the car on level ground and carried out the following procedure:

With engine running, I shifted gear from P through to L and back to P. I removed, cleaned and inserted dipstick. Then I removed dipstick and read the level.

At this point, the dipstick level was about one inch above cold range. I know this could have been unnecessary, but I did it all the same.

Then I drove for about 10 miles. Engine was already at optimal temperature. I returned home and then I parked on level ground and repeated the procedure in blue above. Dipstick level was at maximum of the hot range.
Sound like level correct. But this is not a sure thing, since A/T temp unknown.
So, now I want the mechanic to confirm that indeed transmission fluid is flowing into the transmission cooler. May be it is blocked or something like that ...
We need to know also, it's ATF flow from coolers/radiators.
Indeed, yesterday they found the oil too hot when draining the "excess" 1 liter after driving about 8 miles. It is possible the oil is not cooling. I think we need to follow this argument and check for possible blockage in oil cooler.
How did you know to hot. To say to hot, is meaningless without telling us the temp in F or C. But lets assume to hot. Than why. It would not be from overfilling. It's either clutch plates slippage or TQ or both assuming flowing through coolers/radiators.
I think the air intake issue is not related to the transmission issue. It appears one of the mechanics (while working on the transmission) tried to remove the air cleaner box by loosening the clamps on both sides. Both ends were open, hence affecting air suction. I fixed that and power improved tremendously, but erratic gear changes is still much and affecting performance.

I have not tested oil temperature since I have not yet got Techstream.

Also, mechanic says oil is flowing to the cooler (though he just made a visual inspection). He says that in any case, the cooler carries very little oil. I had thought the cooler could account for about 3 liters of our mysterious oil balance that we would have to add to make a total of 15 liters for transmission type A442F.
Must know temp.
Must know following from coolers
15qt or keep adding until over follows, The short drives. I can't see damaging or even causing to slip. The fluid may foam more than normal, reducing lubrications. But in short drive, I can't see taking out another set of clutches.
In all cases where we have removed the gearbox, we are draining all the oil, including that in the torque converter. While reinstalling torque converter, we first put in some new oil which we are counting as part of the quoted number of liters.
How much came out and condition, and how much went back in TQ. Is important.
TQ must have a good amount, best if filled to capacity before install.

Overfilling A/T systems is better than under filling. Under, can run pump dry, and do a lot of damage fast. Overfill would take time/miles to damage IMHO
 
You maintained level of A/T for 6 years. You made no mention, as I recall. Of: D&F, flushes or adding any. So I assume just checked level, smell and color.

Personal, these days I flush all as a PM. This is especially true of 04-08, which were all factory underfilled.
You may have a bad Torque converter. :hmm:

This thread, has been a bit difficult for me. First, you've a A442F, which I never see. Second, you keep stating mechanic took "gear box". Which I assume you mean A/T (Automatic Transmission). We use gear oil in gear boxes, and ATF (Automatic Transmission fluid) in A/T. We've a gear box attached to A/T. It's call a transfer case, which is what CDL, switch on dash, locks to give equal power to front and rear differentials. A/T have clutch plates.

I work on 100 series USA models. Which is what most all of the 100 series tech section postings are about. All (A350F & A750F) transmission problems I've personally seen. I resolved with a proper full 12 qt. flush and setting A/T level properly. Other than, a small percentage of 2000 transmission that failed. We don't see much in USA 100 series, not related to ATF. Of which mixing ATF's or low fluid are the two common causes of issues. Overfill would take much more use time, do cause drivability issue if at all. But can result in poor lubrications, do to foaming.

I saw in above video, A/T A442F in the 80/105 series. I wondering if you may find more help in the 80 series tech section.

Anyway, One reason I like a full flush, rather than drain and fill. Is I've no idea of what fluid or mix of fluid in the A/T. Drain and fill has it benefits. But most times is done to late (fluid is already very nasty). Also what fluid used, may not mix well with what's in the A/T . Resulting in foaming, or worst.

Knowing the history of your transmission. Driving conditions, towing, deep water, drain and fills, full flush. May shed some light, on why issues in the first place.

As I understand it. Your Mechanic took A/T to a specialist. The specialist, can tell what he did to the A/T and why. If he replaced clutch plates twice, and is test transmission or at least knows what he's doing. Than something else is going on. He likely has pictures or the clutches plates he can show you.

Let assume the issue is not something else, unrelated to A/T. Let assume the A/T shop knows their stuff and found bad clutch plates. Which, If was me and came back. I'd have the second if not also the first set of plates or pictures of.

This clutch material ground up an flowing through the system. May have damage the Torque converter as bad fluid may have. Your ATF flow may be bad, and getting very hot. Starving clutch plates of ATF lube, damaging them again.

Below is a simple search in on bad Torque converter:
Following symptoms of a bad converter will help you get timely assistance from a professional auto technician.
  • GEARS SLIPPAGE. ...
  • ACCELERATION LOSS. ...
  • ROUGH IDLING. ...
  • OVERHEATING TRANSMISSION. ...
  • NO GEAR SHIFT. ...
  • SHUDDERING AND JERKING. ...
  • NOISE FROM TRANSMISSION. ...
  • CONTAMINATED TRANSMISSION FLUID




"even the TQ" The TQ of the 100 series hold about 6L IIRC. I'd assume the 105 hold about the same. We do not want to start up with a drained TQ. I would think, provided better than halve full, it would be okay to start up, with 11 qts added as you first did. My bet is, TQ was never fully drain anyway.


Sound like level correct. But this is not a sure thing, since A/T temp unknown.

We need to know also, it's ATF flow from coolers/radiators.

How did you know to hot. To say to hot, is meaningless without telling us the temp in F or C. But lets assume to hot. Than why. It would not be from overfilling. It's either clutch plates slippage or TQ or both assuming flowing through coolers/radiators.

Must know temp.
Must know following from coolers
15qt or keep adding until over follows, The short drives. I can't see damaging or even causing to slip. The fluid may foam more than normal, reducing lubrications. But in short drive, I can't see taking out another set of clutches.

How much came out and condition, and how much went back in TQ. Is important.
TQ must have a good amount, best if filled to capacity before install.

Overfilling A/T systems is better than under filling. Under, can run pump dry, and do a lot of damage fast. Overfill would take time/miles to damage IMHO
Wow, i have learnt a lot. Thanks for your time to piece these together. I will try to respond where required as soon as i get the opportunity.
 
Valve bodies should be accessible simply by removing lower pan. I don't know if their proper operation can be assessed simply by having access. But their correct installation and condition can be assessed.
 
You maintained level of A/T for 6 years. You made no mention, as I recall. Of: D&F, flushes or adding any. So I assume just checked level, smell and color.

Personal, these days I flush all as a PM. This is especially true of 04-08, which were all factory underfilled.
You may have a bad Torque converter. :hmm:

About 3 years ago, I topped up a few liters of ATF (may be about 3) after losing some fluid due to some ongoing work on the radiator.

About 4 months ago (that was about 4,000 miles ago), I drained 4 L out of the pan and refilled with exactlly same amount of new oil.

In all cases, I used the Total D2 oil. I had a plan to keep draining the pan and refilling during the nest services, but this problem just happened before I could do that.

This thread, has been a bit difficult for me. First, you've a A442F, which I never see. Second, you keep stating mechanic took "gear box". Which I assume you mean A/T (Automatic Transmission). We use gear oil in gear boxes, and ATF (Automatic Transmission fluid) in A/T. We've a gear box attached to A/T. It's call a transfer case, which is what CDL, switch on dash, locks to give equal power to front and rear differentials. A/T have clutch plates.

Someone advised me on this thread to check the transmission type on my car by reading from the metal plate in the engine bay. On checking, it reads A442F. I never had any clue before. I also read from other sources that the LC Diesel up to 2002 uses A442F transmission anyway, and that it uses 15 L of ATF (type D2) on dry refill.

Thanks for clarifying about A/T, ATF, CDL ... we keep learning everyday.


I work on 100 series USA models. Which is what most all of the 100 series tech section postings are about. All (A350F & A750F) transmission problems I've personally seen. I resolved with a proper full 12 qt. flush and setting A/T level properly. Other than, a small percentage of 2000 transmission that failed. We don't see much in USA 100 series, not related to ATF. Of which mixing ATF's or low fluid are the two common causes of issues. Overfill would take much more use time, do cause drivability issue if at all. But can result in poor lubrications, do to foaming.
For the past 6 years, my ATF level has always been okay going by the dipstick reading. I always check all flhuid levels religiously.

When checked on the dipstick or drain plug, the ATF has always been clean and viscous. However, during the radiator work done about 3 years ago, another mechanic said the ATF coming out of the radiator (oil cooler, I guess) was very dirty. He had advised for a flush, but other mechanics advised not to tamper by flushing. I was at crossroads. All along, ATF was very clean and pink from the dipstick, and even when checked from the drain plug. I decided to leave as-is until 4 months ago when I simply drained the pan and refilled.

I saw in above video, A/T A442F in the 80/105 series. I wondering if you may find more help in the 80 series tech section.
Will give a shot.

Anyway, One reason I like a full flush, rather than drain and fill. Is I've no idea of what fluid or mix of fluid in the A/T. Drain and fill has it benefits. But most times is done to late (fluid is already very nasty). Also what fluid used, may not mix well with what's in the A/T . Resulting in foaming, or worst.
Makes a lot of sense.

Knowing the history of your transmission. Driving conditions, towing, deep water, drain and fills, full flush. May shed some light, on why issues in the first place.

I probably drive under one of the least stressful conditions. No stress of loading, towing, hills, off-road. I am rarely in traffic jams. I mostly do paved highway without any stressful hills. I average about 57 miles per hour when on highway. Just occasionally reaching 70/80 miles per hour. I rarely (or nearly never) turn OD OFF because there is no need.

However, I have no idea of how previous owner used the car.

As I understand it. Your Mechanic took A/T to a specialist. The specialist, can tell what he did to the A/T and why. If he replaced clutch plates twice, and is test transmission or at least knows what he's doing. Than something else is going on. He likely has pictures or the clutches plates he can show you.
Sorry, this is a bit more technical, but let me try as far as I know. I may not be as so accurate in reporting. Apologies.

First time, the specialist replaced all clutch plates EXCEPT those for first and reverse gears. He also replaced the filter. All old parts were delivered back to me.

There was a second time when the transmission was pulled down by my mechanic, but put back without taking to the specialist to open it up. I think he just got some ideas to test-drive the car again before taking to specialist.

Third (and last) time, transmission was pulled down and taken to the specialist, and he replaced clutch plates for first and reverse gears. This time the spares were not delivered back to me.

In the same garage of my mechanic, there is another guy who said he was having a similar problem and it was resolved by cleaning the valve body. This is why I just want to give a try and remove the valve body today.

This clutch material ground up an flowing through the system. May have damage the Torque converter as bad fluid may have. Your ATF flow may be bad, and getting very hot. Starving clutch plates of ATF lube, damaging them again.
Possibly

Below is a simple search in on bad Torque converter:
Following symptoms of a bad converter will help you get timely assistance from a professional auto technician.
  • GEARS SLIPPAGE. ...
  • ACCELERATION LOSS. ...
  • ROUGH IDLING. ...
  • OVERHEATING TRANSMISSION. ...
  • NO GEAR SHIFT. ...
  • SHUDDERING AND JERKING. ...
  • NOISE FROM TRANSMISSION. ...
  • CONTAMINATED TRANSMISSION FLUID

The symptoms i am experiencing are:
- gears slippage,
- sort of erratic or late shifting,
- acceleration loss,

On the other hand:
- Idling is very smooth,
- As of now ATF is still very clean (probably because it has hardly driven for 30 miles),
- I cannot hear any transmission noise
- no shuddering or jerking

"even the TQ" The TQ of the 100 series hold about 6L IIRC. I'd assume the 105 hold about the same. We do not want to start up with a drained TQ. I would think, provided better than halve full, it would be okay to start up, with 11 qts added as you first did. My bet is, TQ was never fully drain anyway.

In all cases, TQ was fully drained. Before re-installation, it was pre-filled with some amount of new ATF.

How did you know to hot. To say to hot, is meaningless without telling us the temp in F or C. But lets assume to hot. Than why. It would not be from overfilling. It's either clutch plates slippage or TQ or both assuming flowing through coolers/radiators.
Noted

15qt or keep adding until over follows, The short drives. I can't see damaging or even causing to slip. The fluid may foam more than normal, reducing lubrications. But in short drive, I can't see taking out another set of clutches.
Noted
 
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My mechanic has just sent someone to remove the valve body, but before he could start the work, the mechanic called to say that we should first hold on. That he suspects the problem may be with the "gearbox computer" (sorry these terms gearbox or transmission are confusing for us here). He said someone had a similar problem sometime back and it was a computer issue.

I do not want to rush with taking any actions before getting some other opinions.

Note that we did Techstream scan sometime last week and there were no errors. Quite confusing now.
 
Was trying to confirm that transmission is actually A442F as indicated on engine bay, so someone went under car and took the attached picture of label on the transmission. It does not show much as you can see in the picture. I cannot see A442F indicated anywhere. Not sure if this is the original transmission from manufacturer or it was changed by previous owner.

Picture is not clear, but serial number is 2H1453.

20240207_094716.jpg
 
I am back here because I have not yet resolved my problem. I had migrated a bit to 80-series forum since they share the same transmission A442F as mine.

Today, I did another diagnostics according to the document "Automatic Transmission - Troubleshooting" using the data link connector in the engine bay. It returned error code 38. Unfortunately, 38 is not in the list in the document "Automatic Transmission - Troubleshooting".

Just to to be sure of the DTC, I drove a bit, parked and did the test over again a number of times. Each time, it is returning 38.

Note that the last time I did the test about a week ago, it returned DTC normal.

Could anyone know what DTC 38 means?
 

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