caliper and brake pad grease question? (1 Viewer)

[landcruiser3DP]

i'm tripped up on caliper grease.
there are four shims per side on the FRONT pads. two shims and two inner shims (these are perforated). this shim kit comes with two small packs of bronze grease.
1. does this go on both sides of the perforated inner shims and basically coats them?
then they show like glycol something or other for the pistons and pins. is this the same stuff and you use it on the pins?
2. do you also use it to grease the pistons on new calipers? or only if you are rebuilding your old ones?
3. on the REARS there is a shim kit with only two shims and no grease. can i use any of these three for the grease for the rears? they were on three different aisles at o'riellys.
4. also it looks like it only goes on one side of one shim between it and the inner pad?
5. does the order of the shim look right here for the rears?
5. also if it's the same grease i guess it lubricates? but it also prevents chattering or something for the shims? or is it lubricating the shim too? it seems like very thick stuff.
6. does it come in different colors? the parts manager gave me a plastic bag with a shot of it and it was white. but the stuff that came with the pads is bronze. so it's a bit confusing!
just trying to sort this.
THANKS

 

[Rusty Marlin]

Don't get wrapped around the axel on this.
The bronze grease goes on the back of the pads and then stick the perferated sheild to the grease, then more grease then the outer sheild. You can use never-seez, high temp break grease, the "gold stuff" than came with your kit. Its just there to keep the pads and shims from vibrating and squeeking.
The pins can be greased with about anything. Depending on what I have in my hand or closest to hand I'll grease them with White Lithium or Lucas Red and Tacky. I recomend pulling each pin individually, clean the dried crusty grease off it, slather it up with fresh grease and shove it back home. This is done at every other tire rotation, 15K miles. If I've been playing the sand and mud and creek crossings, I'll do them any time I pull a tire. Its quick and easy.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Don't get wrapped around the axel on this.
The bronze grease goes on the back of the pads and then stick the perferated sheild to the grease, then more grease then the outer sheild. You can use never-seez, high temp break grease, the "gold stuff" than came with your kit. Its just there to keep the pads and shims from vibrating and squeeking.
The pins can be greased with about anything. Depending on what I have in my hand or closest to hand I'll grease them with White Lithium or Lucas Red and Tacky. I recomend pulling each pin individually, clean the dried crusty grease off it, slather it up with fresh grease and shove it back home. This is done at every other tire rotation, 15K miles. If I've been playing the sand and mud and creek crossings, I'll do them any time I pull a tire. It's quick and easy.

thanks a ton for this RM.
yeah so white lithium spray i have. that'll save a lot of time and i can button it up.
can i just ask do the piston seals on NEW calipers get a shot of white lithium? i couldn't tell from the FSM (actually i didn't confusing them they add the exploded axonometric next to the assembled part) but are they showing to use it on the piston seals?
i kind of want to put it in (or not!) before putting it all back together. they seem to show this for front and for rear but i can't tell if it can hurt to shoot some on the piston seals before assembling it all?

 

[Rusty Marlin]

I have never seen a new/reman caliper that didn't have the piston seals already greased.
If you're rebuilding with an old caliper, you'll need to grease the seals at assembly.
I don't know why the spay wouldn't work, but I keep a tube of this on the shelf.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

hey gents. a ton of thanks for the help here.
i admit to having a learning curve on the grease and the shims and also the clips and the wear indicators for the rear brakes!
i think the first problem is i missed the black arrow and the outline arrow in the FSM on the front brakes where they call out for the grease two sides on the inner shims - which is different than what they are calling out for the lubricant on the caliper itself.
the shims seem to get a thicker version of anti/seize i guess?
then when i go to o'riellys they seem to - well i can't honesty tell if it's all lubricant at o'riellys but they seem to have grease and lubricant.
afte mucking about i used this permatex stuff for lube on the front and on the rears. also i used it to lightly lube the piston seals.
it seemed to say it goes to like 1400 dF where the CRC stuff wasn't rated and and the other stuff had a lower temp.
and i used the toyota bronze stuff for the inner shims on the fronts.
they don't call for anything on the one shim on the rears for some reason.
not sure if that makes sense but it seems like a lot of people use any of the orielly's products for shims and for lubricant and it's called alternately lubricant or grease.
or you a lot of people just use anti-seize on the shims and white lithium for lubricant as far as i can tell?
not sure if i have that right but there it is.

 

[Kernal]

Do some searching for reviews on the "Ceramic" brake lube, some mechanics say to avoid using it as it tends to harden with age.

"White lithium" grease is (generally) not the same as the Lithium base glycol grease for rubber as specified in the FSM.

The Toyota caliper lube products were developed specifically for the calipers and are high quality (rubber grease, high temp white grease, black graphite grease) so why not use them??

If you install 100 series pads on the front calipers you likely won't be able to fit the shims but then many people don't use the shims on their front calipers. No front shims on two of my 80's each running 100 series pads up front, no issues.

Below is a link to a previous discussion on the topic. Might help to watch the Toyota training videos on You Tube and complete the series. FWIW.

Where to apply grease (and what type) when performing a brake service?

Wanted to run this by the hive mind and put it all in one place as there appears to be at least 47 different methods (according to the internets) on how to grease your brake components (brake pad contact points, slider pins, pad support plates, anti squeal shims, emergency (parking) brake pivot...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Do some searching for reviews on the "Ceramic" brake lube, some mechanics say to avoid using it as it tends to harden with age.

"White lithium" grease is (generally) not the same as the Lithium base glycol grease for rubber as specified in the FSM.

The Toyota caliper lube products were developed specifically for the calipers and are high quality (rubber grease, high temp PTFE grease, moly grease) so why not use them??

If you install 100 series pads on the front calipers you likely won't be able to fit the shims but then many people don't use the shims on their front calipers. No front shims on two of my 80's each running 100 series pads up front, no issues.

Below is a link to a previous discussion on the topic. Might help to watch the Toyota training videos on You Tube and complete the series. FWIW.

Where to apply grease (and what type) when performing a brake service?

Wanted to run this by the hive mind and put it all in one place as there appears to be at least 47 different methods (according to the internets) on how to grease your brake components (brake pad contact points, slider pins, pad support plates, anti squeal shims, emergency (parking) brake pivot...

forum.ih8mud.com

hey. give me one or two shots at asking follow up questions please? i'm neck deep in FSM and shims and lubrication and grease and videos and charm dot io install guides.
FSM shows NO grease on inside of the single shim on REAR pads. so the shims don't come with grease.
FRONT pads come with that thick bronze toyota "Molykote" stuff. so i put that both sides of the inner perforated shims.
then it says it wants you to glycol based lubricate (?) the calipers in front and - well i guess i calling it a "caliper assembly" in back.
and it wants it pretty much anywhere metal slides on metal.
so (1) can i use that purple permatex stuff for that? also (3) it shoes glycol based product at the pistons or seals or i don't know what but its not clear if its just for rebuilds. anywho - can i use that purple permatex stuff to line the rubber seals on new front and rear rubber piston seals?

EDIT: er i guess you are saying that purple permeates stuff is CERAMIC so maybe i shouldn't use it? what do i use then? can i use the CRC stuff? you want me to scrounge some of that bronze stuff in the little toyota packet off the shins and use it to coat piston seals? snd also for lubricating metal on metal areas?
seems like i should coat piston seals and metal on metal aside from the shims...?(!)

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Do some searching for reviews on the "Ceramic" brake lube, some mechanics say to avoid using it as it tends to harden with age.

"White lithium" grease is (generally) not the same as the Lithium base glycol grease for rubber as specified in the FSM.

The Toyota caliper lube products were developed specifically for the calipers and are high quality (rubber grease, high temp PTFE grease, moly grease) so why not use them??

If you install 100 series pads on the front calipers you likely won't be able to fit the shims but then many people don't use the shims on their front calipers. No front shims on two of my 80's each running 100 series pads up front, no issues.

Below is a link to a previous discussion on the topic. Might help to watch the Toyota training videos on You Tube and complete the series. FWIW.

Where to apply grease (and what type) when performing a brake service?

Wanted to run this by the hive mind and put it all in one place as there appears to be at least 47 different methods (according to the internets) on how to grease your brake components (brake pad contact points, slider pins, pad support plates, anti squeal shims, emergency (parking) brake pivot...

forum.ih8mud.com

i missed the arrows for e brake assembly until i read your thread.
so 7 places for high temp brake grease on e brake?
and NO places for whatever this glycol business is?(!)

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Do some searching for reviews on the "Ceramic" brake lube, some mechanics say to avoid using it as it tends to harden with age.

"White lithium" grease is (generally) not the same as the Lithium base glycol grease for rubber as specified in the FSM.

The Toyota caliper lube products were developed specifically for the calipers and are high quality (rubber grease, high temp PTFE grease, moly grease) so why not use them??

If you install 100 series pads on the front calipers you likely won't be able to fit the shims but then many people don't use the shims on their front calipers. No front shims on two of my 80's each running 100 series pads up front, no issues.

Below is a link to a previous discussion on the topic. Might help to watch the Toyota training videos on You Tube and complete the series. FWIW.

Where to apply grease (and what type) when performing a brake service?

Wanted to run this by the hive mind and put it all in one place as there appears to be at least 47 different methods (according to the internets) on how to grease your brake components (brake pad contact points, slider pins, pad support plates, anti squeal shims, emergency (parking) brake pivot...

forum.ih8mud.com

hey! sorry this is confusing but you seem to say WHITE arrow is molykote from the two little packets.
i did this on front shims.
then you seem to say there is a Toyota "rubber grease" (is this stuff white by any chance...?!) for the BLACK arrows.
then you say metal to metal contact.
this is uber confusing because it seems to want this same product on rubber and also in metal to metal like the retaining pins.
so i guess my issue is 1. what do i use and 2 do i use the same stuff on metal and on rubber or do i switch it up and 3 is it a bad idea to use permeated and 4. u guess i DON'T use bolt more anywhere other than the front shims?

 

[mudgudgeon]

My take.

Glycol grease is compatible with brake fluid, and the rubber seals and dust boots.

Other greases are not.

The anti squeal aims are lubricated with ac thicker, stickier grease so it doesnt run out when brakes get hot.

What you have done looks OK to me.

Button it up, and move on

 

[Kernal]

For future reference:

Rubber Grease (Glycol type for rubber) - 08887-01206

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brake Caliper Grease (high temp for metal) - 08887-80609

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Disk Brake Shim Grease (Graphite grease/paste) - 08887-80409

FWIW

 

[landcruiser3DP]

For future reference:

Rubber Grease (Glycol type for rubber) - 08887-01206


View attachment 3694848

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brake Caliper Grease (high temp for metal) - 08887-80609


View attachment 3694849

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Disk Brake Shim Grease (Graphite grease/paste) - 08887-80409


View attachment 3694850


FWIW

you're killing it on here. awesome. and thanks a ton for this. just so i "get it" - why are you posting /three/ products and where in the FSM does it specify those three exactly please?
i'm just seeing "glycol based lithium grease for the white arrows and i just know the bronze packets go on shims because it came with my shims.
but why do you show two other items here? or how do you get from the diagram to these specific products? it's specified in the resources section somewhere for rubber seals and metal to metal and for brake shims somewhere?(!)

 

[landcruiser3DP]

My take.

Glycol grease is compatible with brake fluid, and the rubber seals and dust boots.

Other greases are not.

The anti squeal aims are lubricated with ac thicker, stickier grease so it doesnt run out when brakes get hot.

What you have done looks OK to me.

Button it up, and move on

hey thanks a lot for this.
i realize when there are fro terms like "lithium based glycol grease" that i don't understand if there is one other thing i don't get my brain goes out. also there is rhe issue with "ceramic" grease (which i guess means there is some kind of compound in it) getting hard.
but also it just seems plain weird to use the same thing on rubber seals that you use on metal to metal.
also i need do order hub studs so i may have bought myself time.
1. is this Permatex stuff even lithium based glycol which is what the FSM seems to call for? how do i know?
2. is this other Permatex stuff in a tube that someone at NAPA suggested different from the Permatex stuff i got at O'riellys?
3. i'm thinking to at least wipe the seals and put on this HONDA stuff which i am guessing is close to the stuff @Kernal just posted that's a TOYOTA product and that he seems to say the FSM specifies somewhere for rubber sells? or as lithium based glycol grease?
4. ALSO where does the FSM specify this stuff Kernal is posting? i'm just seeing the lithium based glycol spec in the drawing and i just know the front brake pads take those little copper packets because i happened to finally get the part number for those shims from someone that helped me out in here.

 

[mudgudgeon]

So, the permatex synthetic lube (product #20353) with the green label is suitable for calliper seals, boots, pins etc.
Not for anti squeal shims.

Permatex® Synthetic Brake Caliper Lubricant, 2 OZ - Permatex

www.permatex.com

The ceramic grease label specifically highlights DO NOT APPLY DIRECTLY TO RUBBER COMPONENTS.
But is ok for the shims and back of pads

Permatex also has synthetic brake parts lubricant product # 85188 that is suitable for rubber parts, pins, and back of pads/shims.

Permatex® Synthetic Brake Caliper Lubricant, .5 OZ - Permatex

www.permatex.com

 

[landcruiser3DP]

So, the permatex synthetic lube (product #20353) with the green label is suitable for calliper seals, boots, pins etc.
Not for anti squeal shims.

Permatex® Synthetic Brake Caliper Lubricant, 2 OZ - Permatex

www.permatex.com

The ceramic grease label specifically highlights DO NOT APPLY DIRECTLY TO RUBBER COMPONENTS.
But is ok for the shims and back of pads

Permatex also has synthetic brake parts lubricant product # 85188 that is suitable for rubber parts, pins, and back of pads/shims.

Permatex® Synthetic Brake Caliper Lubricant, .5 OZ - Permatex

www.permatex.com

ok. i appreciate the expertise here.
i did get frustrated and just used the ceramic on everything except the front shims.
so i need to wipe my rubber seals of the ceramic permatex.
also i am hearing there are problems with ceramic grease hardening so i am going to remove it and start again.
what is a "boot" please?
also there are the four clips that hold the rear brake pads and they get "brake grease"? it gets confusing because it's hard to know what the FSM is lubricating and what it wants to seat or have a heat sink or some kind of static brake or something on (like shims and those metal seating clips?) and what it wants you to preserve (like rubber at the pistons).
> can i just use Sil Glyde everywhere except front shims and rubber seals?
also do the four clips that hold the pads get Sil Glyde? or do they need something like the bronze grease that the shims take?
also i can use Sil Glyde on the e brake everywhere?
then i was thinking to use this Shin Etsu stuff on the rubber seals.
i feel like we need to redraw that FSM diagrams.

 

[mudgudgeon]

what is a "boot" please?

Soft squishy rubber dust cover on the calliper pistons.
Labelled as "boot" on the FSM diagram in your first post, and this last post ^^^.
It's the round rubber rings you see in your new calipers.
The piston seal is concealed behind them.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

gents! i went due the wormhole today wondering if anyone has the patience or interest in digging in.
i REMOVED the purple ceramic permeated stuff and used SHIN ETSU "Grease" on the rubber seals and this SHIN ETSU HIVAC-G on the metal to metal points.
i accidentally ordered the HIVAC-G when i was trying to buy the grease for lubing window rubbers.
anyway they are both interesting and again i used the grease in the seals and HIVAC-G on metal.
then i found this link: My study of Compounds, Greases, and Pastes for Lubricating Brakes on Japanese Automobiles - https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/my-study-of-compounds-greases-and-pastes-for-lubricating-brakes-on-japanese-automobiles.329794/
any thoughts or cautions?
i can't find the white stuff the toyota parts guy hooked me up with unfortunately.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

here is the article. it mentions the toyota "Lithium soap based glycol grease" at the end.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

first page

 

[Kernal]

I haven't used the shin-etsu high vacuum grease myself but FWIW it's a silicone grease used to swell O-rings (or keep them from shrinking) in vacuum systems.

The Toyota brake caliper grease can be ordered from any Toyota dealer.