Buggy out an FJ80? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter woytovich
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- Thread starter
- #22
Prepare to be disappointed, 'cause it won't what you're thinking.
Since the thread relates to a project I've been contemplating, figured a good place to pose.
LX is mechanically 110%, having been rebuilt from end to end, but obviously has issues.
Have been contemplating a means to turn to a more dedicated crawler, but remain legal.
Found a donor body...
Have been discussing means to achieve and interested in input.
22" difference between WB, roof is rotted as are the rear quarters, so originally thought converting the 70 to a 75, but now considering other "options" similar to these:
- Thread starter
- #24
Use the 70 series body but cut it straight back from the top of the rear wheel wells and add a small flatbed at the back "extending" the lines of the small part of the 70 body... the wheelbase difference then makes no difference. Cut the top off and build a full cage with a bikini top...
This is why I thought of using an existing rolling FJ/FZJ chassis. Sell off the heavier and more complex engine and automatic transmission to finance a mini truck engine, trans and dual case set-up.
TeddyBoy
Knighted by the King of MUD himself
Just my .02, Gotta go with 95Toycruiser on this one then. Unless you just enjoy the build you're putting a ton of work in it just to save the suspension, frame and axles. A linked mini truck w/ 80 axles (or similar) is an extremely capable option at a very reasonable price tag in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, 80s are a great package but not the best bang for the buck in your case.
F-toys are cool if that's your thing but will suck in crappy weather. Pirate has a pretty extensive section on them.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/69-toyota-formula-toy-forum/
Don't get me wrong, 80s are a great package but not the best bang for the buck in your case.
F-toys are cool if that's your thing but will suck in crappy weather. Pirate has a pretty extensive section on them.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/69-toyota-formula-toy-forum/
Unless you've one that's mechanically new, yet body is totalled, and need a wheeler before spring.....at least, that's my rationale.
Get rid of all the wrongs with the heavy station wagon body, chop the overhang off, and it might be a formidable rig yet semi streetable.
TeddyBoy
Knighted by the King of MUD himself
Yes a greed. After watching and wheeling with the Franken80 for the last 2 years I'm becoming a believer in properly balancing an offroad rig from front the back.
One of the things I've noticed is the rear tires tend to float (for lack of a better description) on obstacles instead of hooking like they should. This creates a couple of problems, 1) the tires just spin in place which simply digs a hole due which then 2) forces the front to provide all of the forward "drive" which results in obvious failures.
So what we've started doing is trying to add some weight over the rear axle to counteract the heavy front. Spare parts, spare tire, tools etc. are obvious in the back but we may have to get a little more creative.
One of the things I've noticed is the rear tires tend to float (for lack of a better description) on obstacles instead of hooking like they should. This creates a couple of problems, 1) the tires just spin in place which simply digs a hole due which then 2) forces the front to provide all of the forward "drive" which results in obvious failures.
So what we've started doing is trying to add some weight over the rear axle to counteract the heavy front. Spare parts, spare tire, tools etc. are obvious in the back but we may have to get a little more creative.
Echoing what others have said about chopped 80s, which leaves me asking this, since there's really no way to lessen the weight on the front axle:
1.) How far would one need to move front axle forward alter the weight bias disparity?
Realize a question answerable only with race scales, but seems a means to lever more traction.
When pondering another "wheeler" thought a RHD PS gearbox, with a rear facing pitman arm would allow to move about anywhere forward it could be reinforced, but an extensive/ expensive endeavor that PSC prolly has a better solution for.
2.) Would it be absurd to move the drivetrain back?
A 70 body, like in my case, is already going to suck to the front axle further than the 80, so thought about firewall back, the pushing 1FZ against (not literally)
3.) If reworking links, would it be possible to increase the rears ability to hook up, say if the axles couldn't be moved?
You'd think, with all the talk about calculations, but think most adjust wheel base...
1.) How far would one need to move front axle forward alter the weight bias disparity?
Realize a question answerable only with race scales, but seems a means to lever more traction.
When pondering another "wheeler" thought a RHD PS gearbox, with a rear facing pitman arm would allow to move about anywhere forward it could be reinforced, but an extensive/ expensive endeavor that PSC prolly has a better solution for.
2.) Would it be absurd to move the drivetrain back?
A 70 body, like in my case, is already going to suck to the front axle further than the 80, so thought about firewall back, the pushing 1FZ against (not literally)
3.) If reworking links, would it be possible to increase the rears ability to hook up, say if the axles couldn't be moved?
You'd think, with all the talk about calculations, but think most adjust wheel base...
Delancy already has the bones for a wheeler - 5.29s , tcase gears, and an 80 body that is ripe for 800lbs of weight shedding.
imho. if shortbus was "good" at 5200lbs........an 80 thats barebones tipping the scales at 4400lbs will be more than capable and fun - especially if this Northwest Fab doubler is added to the mix.
taking a bunch of weight off the front and putting in the rear where the majority of the 800lbs can come out of would mean:
- battery to rear
- winch to rear
- a/c system delete
- windshield swap to lexan
- front door half door tube doors
- canvas sun protection.
- hood delete and 1/16" alum bolt on skin.
300lbs out of front and to the rear.
the main problem with a much lighter rear end is the suspension wont flex without the weight. raising the spring buckets and coilover to work with final rear end weight would increase articulation and pave the way for higher clearance control arms. but alot more work for marginal gains and to realize:
-at the end of the day you will never compare the capabilities of a 4500lb slimfasted pig with something like an ftoy or buggy at 2000 less lbs. the 80 frame and drivetrain are out of the box a bit bloated and that cant really be overcome no matter what you throw at it. the best case scenario is a well balanced 4500lb on 37s......which should be fun and not break as much as the 6500lb bolt-on mall crawler.
imho. if shortbus was "good" at 5200lbs........an 80 thats barebones tipping the scales at 4400lbs will be more than capable and fun - especially if this Northwest Fab doubler is added to the mix.
taking a bunch of weight off the front and putting in the rear where the majority of the 800lbs can come out of would mean:
- battery to rear
- winch to rear
- a/c system delete
- windshield swap to lexan
- front door half door tube doors
- canvas sun protection.
- hood delete and 1/16" alum bolt on skin.
300lbs out of front and to the rear.
the main problem with a much lighter rear end is the suspension wont flex without the weight. raising the spring buckets and coilover to work with final rear end weight would increase articulation and pave the way for higher clearance control arms. but alot more work for marginal gains and to realize:
-at the end of the day you will never compare the capabilities of a 4500lb slimfasted pig with something like an ftoy or buggy at 2000 less lbs. the 80 frame and drivetrain are out of the box a bit bloated and that cant really be overcome no matter what you throw at it. the best case scenario is a well balanced 4500lb on 37s......which should be fun and not break as much as the 6500lb bolt-on mall crawler.
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The person who needs to chime in on the weight balance and pros/cons is @Land Speeder. Eric has a lot of first hand experience on this!
Tigerstripe40
SILVER Star
I've been toying with the idea of building an 80 series crawl rig (swap in a LS/4l60/BlackBox/splitcase)
or doing a 'Taco on 'Tons...
or doing a 'Taco on 'Tons...
Is there any resource for definitive information on rolling chassis weight?
Is it really relevant (not comparing to an F toy, but in the grande scene of things) that the rolling chassis, sprung or unsprung, remains heavy if the weight above/COG is substantially decreased?
I'm not sure what's available for true rolling chassis weights.
Weight kills when you are trying to climb. HP can make up for it slightly, but the lighter your truck is, the easier time it will have getting up and over things. For most non-full on vertical assaults, gearing is king. You are correct that weight is always better down low..
Weight kills when you are trying to climb. HP can make up for it slightly, but the lighter your truck is, the easier time it will have getting up and over things. For most non-full on vertical assaults, gearing is king. You are correct that weight is always better down low..
I can tell you that the body isn't all that heavy. It was a lot less than I thought it would be. A few friends and I picked it up and walked it into the shop.
The problem with this is that the 80 front (and rear to a degree) suspension is not very good for crawling...
Don't get me wrong, I have 2 80's and love them, one of them is chopped, flat bellied, backhalfed, etc... I make it everywhere my buddies in mini's with doublers make it, but the things just so damn heavy!!!
If I were to do it over, I'd find some one tons, throw them under a mini (linked front and rear), bob the bed, and run a doubler...
You'd have a stronger, lighter, better geared, and less expensive rig with more aftermarket support...
You can only take the 80 so far...
Don't get me wrong, I have 2 80's and love them, one of them is chopped, flat bellied, backhalfed, etc... I make it everywhere my buddies in mini's with doublers make it, but the things just so damn heavy!!!
If I were to do it over, I'd find some one tons, throw them under a mini (linked front and rear), bob the bed, and run a doubler...
You'd have a stronger, lighter, better geared, and less expensive rig with more aftermarket support...
You can only take the 80 so far...
Something like this could be an option
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cuttin-up-the-lx.551092/page-11
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cuttin-up-the-lx.551092/page-11
How much does weight bias, front to rear, play into that?
Assume linked front and rear on COs:
If links are positioned at front and rear TC output, how can the weight bias be equalized?
Since the drivetrain is so long, can't shorten the WB at the rear much, without winding up with very short links.
Can extend the front around 8" (assuming 39s and forward facing pitman arm) but the links would wind up disproportionately longer than the rears.
Easy way would be to shorten the drivetrain, but negates purpose in this inquisition, being to use the good chassis and drivetrain I already have and put a lighter body on.
