Brakes YIKES please help HELP!

Joined
Dec 20, 2004
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My LC has 105K miles, did pads and rotors at 60K with factory OEM parts, well now all my calipers are frozen and I need new pads, rotors and calipers. My mechanics is suggesting parts made my Centric? Anyone know of them... come with 10K mile full warranty....

I am getting all the parts I need plus install for 1600 vs dealer quote of 2900 range and this is for parts and labor. Shop said the Centric parts (pads, rotors and calipers front and rear) was about 1200 range for parts. Sounds like a great price unless these are crap parts...

help, I need to know asap if i should do this as they have the truck there now and ready to do the work!!!! Thanks so much!

please email me at sramponi@optimaleng.com with any friendly advice!
 
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Call cruiserdan for pricing on OEM parts, centrix just sounds like a generic aftermarket parts supplier, so who know what the quality, 10k mi warranty for parts isn't much, any brake parts should last that long, if not they are probably defective...

Look in the vendors forum for a sticky thread on how to get a hold of cruiserdan
 

hoser

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How the heck do you get ALL the calipers to freeze up at once?

Just a quick search on www.toyotapartscheap.com for 2000 LC:
Front caliper $300/ea
Rear caliper $215/ea
Front Rotor $82/ea
Rear Rotor $106/ea
Rear pads $60/pr
Front Pads $60/pr

Total $1526 Am I missing anything else?
 

spressomon

glutton
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FYI: You can get factory front rebuilt calipers from Toyota but not the rears. I installed a pair of rebuilt NAPA rear calipers almost a year ago for around $40 each on my '99...and they have performed perfectly.

And like Hoser asked: How would this happen at all 4-corners simulataneously?
 
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Centric is a supplier of brake parts to domestics. The ART rotors are centrics that have been slotted and cryo'd. They tell me they are all North American made (that means mexico or canada). I then spoke to the tech at Powerslot who tells me none of the centric rotors are north american made. Personally, I think the OEM rotors are good, not great. Good slotted ones are better, IMHO. If you replace the front pads, you need to resurface or replace the front rotors, or they'll warp soon thereafter (really an uneven bedding of the new brake material on the rotor since the surfaces don't mate up perfectly...will happen to any rotor sooner or later depending on the uneveness in wear).

I would get OEM calipers/pads at least. OEM rotors and pads can be had for maybe $500-600 for both axles. I'm guessing calipers are maybe $700 for all four? I would guess labor could be done at a Toyota dealership for $400 for all 4 wheels, plus $100 for flushing the brakes. Make sure they flush the entire system. If the fluid is contaminated (dark), there is water in there, and you don't want the shop to replace all the components only to have them rust soon after.
 
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Did both the dealer AND the indep mechanic say all pistons were frozen?

To quantify what others on this board have said, this is mathematically very unlikely. Let's say each front caliper has 4 pistons, and each rear caliper has 2 pistons. We declare a front caliper bad with (assume) 20% probability if one or more of the pistons freezes. With the rear, it's bad if one or both pistons freeze. Also assume all calipers act indepently. The probability of a single [front] caliper going bad is governed by a binomial distribution of four bernoulli trials, where the prob = sum of i=1:4 of (4 choose i)*(0.02)^i*(0.88)^4-i = 0.0545. For the rear, replace 4 by 2 and sum from i=1:2 to get prob = 0.0352. So the total probability of all calipers going bad simultaneously is (0.545*0.0352)^2=3.94*10^-6 or 0.000394%!! Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as it's been a while.
 
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a binomial distribution of four bernoulli trials, where the prob = sum of i=1:4 of (4 choose i)*(0.02)^i*(0.88)^4-i = 0.0545. For the rear, replace 4 by 2 and sum from i=1:2 to get prob = 0.0352. So the total probability of all calipers going bad simultaneously is (0.545*0.0352)^2=3.94*10^-6 or 0.000394%!! Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as it's been a while.

We always thought you were insane. Now we KNOW IT! :D
 
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You said binomial and bernoulli. You win.

Edit: I also second what Shott says. hehe

Did both the dealer AND the indep mechanic say all pistons were frozen?

To quantify what others on this board have said, this is mathematically very unlikely. Let's say each front caliper has 4 pistons, and each rear caliper has 2 pistons. We declare a front caliper bad with (assume) 20% probability if one or more of the pistons freezes. With the rear, it's bad if one or both pistons freeze. Also assume all calipers act indepently. The probability of a single [front] caliper going bad is governed by a binomial distribution of four bernoulli trials, where the prob = sum of i=1:4 of (4 choose i)*(0.02)^i*(0.88)^4-i = 0.0545. For the rear, replace 4 by 2 and sum from i=1:2 to get prob = 0.0352. So the total probability of all calipers going bad simultaneously is (0.545*0.0352)^2=3.94*10^-6 or 0.000394%!! Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as it's been a while.
 

justimaginejack

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I would agree that it is highly unlikey to have such an issue. It is not unlikey to need all for brakes replaced. I would contact cruiser dan. It has been a rare occasion(once) where he did not have the best parts prices. That said, If I had the opportunity that you do here to upgrade the brakes I would. Since it appears you are new and we don't know what year your vehicle is, it is hard to recommend a replacement. I feel the Lexus style slotted vented disc brakes last longer. You can get them from slee. If you have the 18inch tires i would upgrade to the new tundra brakes. They will be slightly more, but will give you better braking power and last longer. they should have no problem fitting. As for the diagnosis, i would want them to show me the cause of the problem and put it all in writing. If they are not willing to do that, walk. Don't pay more than 120 and hour for the best labor. You could do this yourself if you are willing to learn and make an investment in the tools. I have a great mechanic here in st.louis who charges 75.00 an hour. If you are doing the brakes completely, have them flush the brake lines and repack the bearings while they are down there. another thing you might want to look into is upgrading the Shocks too. These are all going to require the wheels to be removed and are much cheaper if done together. Consider the maintinance will need to be done and soon if you skip and will be paying for the same wheels to come off.

that said welcome and I understand the sticker shock. I have invested quite a bit in my 100 and wouldn't trade it for the world. It is more expensive to fix than maintain, but since parts are so expensive to maintain most of us have learned to do it ourselves and write in here before submitting to the dealers
best of luck, let us know how it works out
 
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I agree, I'm more concerned about the diagnosis at this point than anything. I find it unbelievable that all these parts failed at the same time. What are the symptoms?
 

e9999

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how about somebody put in the wrong fluid? would not the probability go to 100% then? :D
 
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how about somebody put in the wrong fluid? would not the probability go to 100% then? :D

My analysis doesn't take that into account, nor if the vehicle were submerged. :)

For 1LoudLX, if the probability is different for each wheel, you just use a different probability, p, and have a different binomial distribution for each wheel, then take the product of all four binomial results at the end since the outcomes are i.i.d. random variables by assumption. QED.
 
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So the total probability of all calipers going bad simultaneously is (0.545*0.0352)^2=3.94*10^-6 or 0.000394%!! Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, as it's been a while.

Perhaps but .000394 x 100,000 (~ # 100s sold in NA) = 39.4. So at least 38 more vehicles will have this happen at some point. :D

Even extemely improbable events will occur with frequency if given sufficent opportunities.

I agree the diagnosis sounds suspect unless some research finds that this is a Katrina mobile. Unfortunately the LC is more likely than most to have an attempt made at salvage due to it's high original and resale value.

My question is, if the calipers are all frozen how did the pads and rotors get worn out ? :confused:
 
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