Blue fan clutch mod...Thread has gone to hell, read at your own risk (1 Viewer)

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smittycrusher said:
ACC Toyota here in Atlanta once again took great care of me. They had an old fan clutch that they were going to toss out so they let me have it to get the o ring out. I came home from work today and was able get the o ring out of that one and swapped over to mine. It fit like a glove and I am happy to have this behind me.

Thanks again to Brian, Michael, Towers and crew over at ACC!

Smitty
Click to expand...
Bummer about the original o ring, but I love it when a break comes along like that! You were probably right in your original post that it got stretched when you first split it open. Tools, I think has more experience on fan clutches than most on this forum and he said he had only seen one that wouldn't fit. So, Bingo! Good for you!
 
Tools R Us said:
It's common, my guess; the silicone fluid swells/expands the o-ring. I clean the groove well, so it's not slippery. Use care cleaning the o-ring, pulling on it will stretch it more, roll/press it between rags. Then work it into the groove. Most of them go, only remember one that I gave up on.
Click to expand...

That was mine. No issue at all with the fix, for several years now. Thanks again for your help.

I will be extra careful when I upgrade the fluid to 30k.
 
Smitty

Did you toss the one from Acc out. Id like to find one to toy with. If so no worries. Hope you've been well.
 
landtank said:
target temp

Once the two have been separated the half with the spring on the outside needs to be warmed to 95*.

What I've done is to place about an 1.25 inches of water in a sauce pan and heat it to about 110*. I then placed the control side, spring down into the pan and place the pan on a wooded cutting board. The cutting board helps slow down the cooling process so I have time to make the adjustment.

Since the pan with water in it will cool at the edges faster than the center where the spring is at, it's important to occasionally lift the clutch up and down to help circulate the water and minimize that effect. I did this every few minutes and then more frfequent when I got closer to the target temp.

Attached is a pic of how I had it set up.
View attachment 84655
Click to expand...
 
I just re-read this thread, I had adjusted my fan clutch a year ago while chasing a temperature problem that turned out to be a bad HG and a snapped head bolt:(

Now a year and a rebuilt engine later, I haven't driven it in hot weather yet but in cold weather I'm finding the temp creeps up to just under 195 lightly loaded, but doing work it runs about 185-190. I may fiddle with thermocouples soon to see what the actual radiator temperature is doing just in front of the fan. This may be entirely normal but I'd still like to see the numbers.

After re-reading the thread I realized there may be another explanation for the inconsistency Landtank saw in the temperature setting. To measure temperature using infrared the material needs a fairly high emissivity, and machined aluminum has a very low emissivity. I learned this the hard way when using a thermal camera to measure the temperature of an immersion gold plated circuit board; the copper temperature was at near 200 degrees, but in the camera I saw the temperature of the wall behind me reflected in that surface. As the emissivity decreases and IR reflectivity increases, you see a mix of the surface temperature and reflected temperature that shifts toward the reflected temp. If the reflected temp is not consistent, or the angle and distance of the thermometer are not consistent, then even the same material and same tool will provide inconsistent results.

There's a good general discussion here, google emissivity for more details:
Myth or reality: My infrared thermometer is not as good as a contact thermometer.

A thermocouple attached to the thermostat spring with a little copper tape and some thermal paste will probably give the most consistent results - BUT it is not really the same measurement as before so I don't know if 95 is the right value doing it that way. If I get a chance to redo this I'll post up a comparison of the IR thermometer and thermocouple data.
 
Pretend the surface you are measuring is a mirror, and imagine you can see the aiming laser reflecting off. The temperature you read is a mix of the temperature of the surface and the temperature of what the laser reflects onto. That mix would be almost entirely the surface you want measured if that surface were a black piece of rubber, but the mix favors the "reflected" temperature when the surface is smooth metal. Except it gets complicated again because the sensor reads a cone, not a dot, so the further away the sensor is the larger the area it reads - the laser is roughly down the center of the cone. If the surface you are reading is submerged in water that complicates things again - I really don't know what the water contributes to the measurement.

You might be able to sort of calibrate the measurement by heating the water and aluminum piece together, then let them gradually cool together so they are very close to the same temperature. Keep you thermometer in the water (assuming the thermometer is fairly accurate), and remove the aluminum piece from the water and quickly (maybe 10 seconds) shoot the IR temperature from a few different angles and distances, comparing to the thermometer temperature in the water.

Higher end IR thermometers and cameras have an emissivity setting to calibrate to the material being measured, but even then they work best on dark, rough, and nonreflective surfaces like tires and radiator hoses. You may find that the temperature gun you use is calibrated to a lower emissivity so that the error is acceptable. You might have already compared the two, but you'll want to shoot from a few different angles to be sure.

I hope that helped / didn't confuse things too much, I'm ordering the thermocouples for my project tonight but I'm not sure when I'll get to running the experiment.
 
Sheez - these threads popping up are making me feel really old. I hadn't been on the board for a while, or any for that matter, I basically swore off the internet for a good while. Does your brain good - trust me. Now the ones dating back to 2006 and before are popping up. Ten years is a long time for a guy that was old in 2006. If you don't believe me, just wait and see.

And please don't ruffle Rick's feathers or all h*ll will break lose. LOL Have a good day all. Peace. ( Other than to kill everyone of those ISIL rats. )
 
Just completed the adjustment part of this mod. I've got a bottle of 10k and a bottle of 5k that I'll add in tomorrow. Everything seemed to go really well. This thread has been amazing for this mod. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. Pictures is my Red thread below.
 
Phares said:
Just completed the adjustment part of this mod. I've got a bottle of 10k and a bottle of 5k that I'll add in tomorrow. Everything seemed to go really well. This thread has been amazing for this mod. Thank you to everyone who has contributed. Pictures is my Red thread below.
Click to expand...
You are aware that mixing 10k & 5k will not give you 15k? Here is a formula chart to help you. Hopefully you know what your target weight it is you're trying for.
 
I re-adjusted my fan clutch today using a thermocouple, and while I was at it I checked it against my infrared thermometer.

The IR thermometer was more accurate than I thought, but it was very sensitive to where I pointed it. As long as I had the lens of the IR thermometer (not the laser) pointed at the dark metal bar inside the clutch, and only a few inches away, the temperature was within a few degrees of the thermocouple value. If I pointed at the aluminum parts the temperature measurement seemed to change a lot based on the angle of the thermometer.


I don't know if this is more useful or more confusing, but before I made the adjustment I put a thermocouple in the upper tank and another between the radiator and the fan clutch, and I also put a logger on the OBD2 port; this is the result.

Temperature_plot_before_adjustment.jpg


So the air temp between radiator and fan clutch spikes up when I downshift, pretty much as expected. The temperature jump around the 1500second mark was a steep 65mph hill climb with a couple of downshifts as I passed slower cars. Engine temp was steady, upper tank and clutch air temps increased under the workload. I had hoped to some how spot the fan clutch state in the temperature data, but I don't see a way to sort it from the rest of the noise.

I made my adjustment with oil still in the front half; this may have been a mistake. I noticed that as I cycled the temperature of the water bath up and down, there was so much drag on the valve that the difference between opening and closing temperature was at least 15 degrees. As a result I think it now cuts in early and never disengages.

In any case, the temperatures didn't change much. The ECT sensor still reports 190-192. The thermocouple I put in the upper radiator tank still reports right around 180. I have a hard time believing the water would drop 10 degrees between the ECT and the upper tank, I'm starting to wonder if there is something off about the ECT sensor.
 
Ok, so I basically read this entire thread. It took me a few days but I did it. I'll admit I did skim some of it.

This thread has been alive for nearly 10 years now, and its chock full of excellent discussions/debates ranging from oil weights to fan blade deflection and chewed up radiators. Over the last 10 years the oil weights have gradually increased. Ranging from 6-10kcst at the beginning, to now 15k-20kcst with people messing around with 30kcst and even 50kcst.

Also the method of the adjustment seems to have changed, or maybe I am getting this wrong. At the beginning it was to heat the bimetal spring to 95*f with hot water and adjust the plate so that the valve holes are half open/closed. This method has been pretty consistent over the years, but some people have used a method using hot air and claiming that this is more accurate and faster. One thing that was not clear to me is how to measure the temp of the bimetal spring. Are you heating the water to 95* and some how keeping the water at that temp to allow the bimetal spring to fully soak until you are pretty sure it has reached steady state? Are you measuring the temp by removing the clutch out of the water and then touch the probe on the bimetal spring periodically until it hits 95*? The hot air method, are you using a heat gun or would a hair dryer suffice? Again how are you measuring the temp of the spring? I haven't messed with the heating part yet but how much time do you have to set the position of the valve plate once you hit 95* and remove the heat. Or do you need to do your best to keep it heated properly as you make the adjustment?

I guess ultimately what I am asking is could there be a summary of the last 10 years of testing, experience, and knowledge made and posted at the beginning of this thread? LT would it be possible for you to update the original post with the latest and greatest methods of adjustments and general recommendations of weights used for different situations, i.e. stock, modified with heavy stuff, towing, super charged. That way us late bloomers don't have to read through 39 pages and 770+ posts to figure out what should to be done.

This has been a fascinating read and I will be doing this mod in the next couple of days with the brand new blue hub that I got from Cruiserdan. Now I should really get back to work.
 
So right now the baseline is 15000cst . I have 6000cst in it. Last owner put. I will try try a test to 15000.
 
Thanks Landtank, I will stick with 95* and I have 20k on the way right now since I am planning on towing a 3500lbs trailer around. I am thinking I may grab 15k to try first, then move up if needed.
 
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