Builds Big Red Toy (12 Viewers)

[boots4]

For me, the only time air to water makes sense is if it's a packaging issue and an air to air cannot be fit, one is at full load with low air flow (like heavy equipment), or drag racing where one can fill a container with ice for a pass. Other than that air to air is a better set up. For normal wheeling it's less likely that we're needing full boost for any significant amount of time.

My intercooler measurements (core size):

25" wide
14" tall
1.75" thick

 

[The Phoenician]

wheeling I don't use boost at all. I need to get better temps for highway driving. On the way to big bend I was at 1100 for some time and could easily hit above 1200 if I pushed it. Would love to be doing 70mph at around 800*

 

[The Phoenician]

http://www.snowperformance.net/stage-2-diesel-boost-cooler.html

impulse buy anyone? who's with me??

 

[Mr Cimarron]

Pricey.

 

[The Phoenician]

yeah, I found cheaper kits. About 305 to 350. Just doing the research right now so I don't have to throttle back as much on inclines. ACC will install it for free

 

[Mr Cimarron]

How hard would it be to disconnect your exhaust at the downpipe? If doable it may be worth it to do some test runs to see if you exhaust is the restriction causing higher EGTs.

 

[The Phoenician]

I thought about it. There's very little room for me to maneuver plus it will blow all that smoke into the cab. That's what it was doing before i put an exhaust on.

 

[Pacer]

Yes (drawback), the air to water intercooler will probably warm up the air coming out of the air to air. The coolest an air to water intercooler can get the charged air is the temp of the coolant. Outside air temps even in summer time are never as high as coolant temps.

I heard the different argument, both make sense. Air to air can only cool as long as you're moving. Water to air, which is supposedly way more efficient cools all the time. You argument makes sense too. So the only viable options are a larger air to air intercooler or meth injection. What size intercooler are you running boots?

Wait, wait, wait... Boots,
Water to air runs it's own heat exchanger and circulating pump and often a reservoir tank, completely separate from the engine cooling system.
They can be much more efficient than an air to air, achieving lower or equal intake temps, while reducing turbo lag due to smaller volume.

Phoenician,
Similarly, while the water to air adds a great deal of complexity, if I were to do it, I would remove the Air to Air set up.
Water to air will allow you to shorten up the intake tubing and get that pressure charge into the engine faster, because you no longer need to take the intake up to the front of the truck.

I'll put my flame suit on now... fire away.

 

[The Phoenician]

I hadn't thought about having a separate water tank for the water to air, I just thought I could use the cooling system to run it. I'm limited with space and toying with the idea of just adding methanol injection. I just need to drop it a 100* or so on inclines. Otherwise the rig runs great.
I will keep looking into it and see what will give me the desired results at an affordable price. I appreciate y'all input, keep em coming.

 

[boots4]

@ Pacer, the majority of the system's I've seen are part of the engine's cooling system. Sure you could separate the system and gain some efficiency over the engine's cooling system but then you're adding the complexity of an entire other cooling system. I'm not sure how the water to air would be more efficient (cool more) than an air to air since they both have ambient air temps as their limiting factor (ice systems don't count). If there is noticeable turbo lag from an air to air it would have to be a pretty big intercooler for the system; a water to air would also add restriction to the intake since there would have to be some way for heat exchange. Then there is the possible risk of that heat exchanger springing a leak and sending coolant into the cylinders, you don't have that risk with an air to air. I do agree that I would only run one or the other but there can be good reasons to run either one.

 

[Pacer]

I hadn't thought about having a separate water tank for the water to air, I just thought I could use the cooling system to run it. I'm limited with space and toying with the idea of just adding methanol injection. I just need to drop it a 100* or so on inclines. Otherwise the rig runs great.
I will keep looking into it and see what will give me the desired results at an affordable price. I appreciate y'all input, keep em coming.

You need more turbo! or to turn down the fuel, but who wants to do that.
Maybe a tweek to the timing?
Boots has blazed a path for you and your wallet

 

[boots4]

You need more turbo! ...

I was honestly thinking the same thing.

 

[The Phoenician]

I'm not gonna lie, I don't know how to tweak the ppump. the turbo is great, spools up really fast. I just need to adjust the waste gate to open up much later. I've been extremely pleased with the rig's performance. I managed 83mph with it completely loaded. My weak spot is inclines where I have to throttle back.
So let's hear this. What are the arguments or drawbacks to a methanol/water injection system?

 

[boots4]

I think tuning the pump would be the first place I would start. You are more than capable to learn, it just requires some research and reading. Advancing timing and adjusting fuel delivery (like fuel plate and afc stuff) may get you where you want.

One major bad to water/meth is if you get the spray amount wrong it could be catastrophic for the engine.

 

[Pacer]

Do some wastegate testing first thing.
Temporarily disconnect the boost reference line from the waste-gate and go for a drive.
This will be the wastegate working on exhaust pressure alone without the assist from boost pressure. See how that feels.
Then reconnect that and crank down on the spring and see if that helps.
I have been running mine slammed shut for a while now and cant see this old diesel over spinning the turbo, but we shall see...
I do still have a blowoff/popoff valve which pops around 15psi and I back off.

I know nothing about water and meth injection.
I do know you have more potential already under your hood.
Play with the wastegate, mark your pump for where it is timed currently and learn how to advance the timing slightly as Boots suggests.

 

[The Phoenician]

Thanks guys. Will figure out the p-pump and see if I can manage it. So far all I'm finding is stuff on the VE pump, not much on the p pump. I am somewhat limited with my ability to get in there and work on tiny or tight areas ( right hand not so handy anymore). I still am toying with the idea of the methanol injection just for those steep inclines or hard accelerations. you can set it up to where it only injects mist past a certain boost or egt number. I'm not worried about messing up the mixture since the is a chemist and looked very insulted when i asked her how hard it would be for her to get it right.

I called snowperformance today and they said it typically cools it down to up to 250* with about an up to 25% increase in hp depending on what nozzles are used. But I am leaning more towards Devil's Own right now. I'm happy with the HPs but the idea of cooling it so much is quite attractive to me.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

The p pump is a bit tricky to fiddle with but not bad. There is no fuel screw. You would need to adjust or replace your fuel plate. However you can adjust the star wheel and do some testing. It's pretty simple to access.

 

[weasel]

Check out YouTube for the p-pump adjustments. You will have to watch them do it on 6bts though. I was having the same problem with just a couple hundred degrees on my 6bt in a superduty and timing made all the difference in the world. I went from 12.5 degrees factory to 19.5 and the egts dropped around 225 degrees. You have to pull the timing gear off to make the adjustment but if you watch the videos it's not that complicated and is very rewarding. Some people go as high as 25 degrees on the timing but everyone I've talked to said that anything under 22 is safe without the engine rattling to much. The methonal kit will do it but then you have another system to complicate things.

 

[The Phoenician]

I'm probably gonna have to get better ac lines made, but the students at the local community college welded up the old Toyota lines and mated them with the dodge lines to fit the compressor.

I just want it to hold Freon for round up. Last year I learned the hard way that i was out and tasted dust the entire time ( I know , first world problems)

 

[The Phoenician]

Picked up my rig today. The ac blows cold again, but like i said I'll probably have to get better lines made if it starts leaking again. I wrapped the lines with cool tape because the manifold heat had melted the foam insulation previously.

I also found out my engine was originally designed to have an after cooler instead of an intercooler.