BFG vs Nitto. Lookin for Some A/T's

[phsycle]

I bought my Model 80 LC back in March. I am a true believer in buying the absolute best tires money can buy as what is the point in having a superior traction vehicle if what is touching the ground can’t deliver the traction you need. I needed new tires so I consulted many of the post on mud and I also talked to the folks at Iron Pig and Slee. I viewed the posts on tires and listened to recommendations from the experts through the lens of my stated needs:

-5 tires that have to work great on and off pavement as I am not going to buy a separate set of rims and tires
-80% onroad (just being realistic)
-Excellent Snow and Ice performance
-Good offroad performance
-Not too noisy
-Decent tire wear

Most of the posts I read on mud pointed me directly to BFG A/T KOs. The guys at Iron Pig recommended either BFG A/T KOs (great all around on and offroad tire) or BFG KM2s (if you are more focused on offroad and not worried about snow and noise). The guys at SLEE recommended Nitto (their comment was that the BFG A/T KOs are old technology – not sure if accurate – just reporting what they said).

Well after much research and consideration I went with the BFG A/T KO.

I have now put on 10K miles on them and they have been awesome!
I have been offroading at Rauch Creek on the Green and Blue trails many times (full of pointy sharp rocks and stumps), run steep muddy mountain trails in the George Washington National Forest, did some rock crawling, ran muddy trails in hellatious rain down pours during a tropical storm – never lost traction – super impressed with the performance! Only got stuck once however that was because my 16 year old son deliberately drove the 80 into a mud sand pit up to the frame – so we had to winch it out – not the tire’s fault (see attached photo). I have yet to try them out on snow and ice so cannot personally attest to bad weather performance.

I have also run on pavement through mountain passes in PA during torrential down pours (1+ inches plus of water on the surface) at highway speeds and never hydroplaned or lost traction while tractor trailers and other vehicles littered the side of the road waiting out the rain.

Now granted my experience with BFG A/T KOs is limited to 6 months and 10K miles, but so far they have been awesome!

I've got about 65k miles on my BFG KO's and my experience has been similar. I have yet to be disappointed with these tires. No issues with rain, awesome traction in snow (on-road), and pretty quiet. They're a lot better than the Niito TG's and REVO's I had.

I will definitely buy another set next year (still has another winter left in them).

 

[OregonLC]

It would be worth it to put together a trial comparing the performance of different tires back-to-back. Same truck, same wheels, same terrain, just different tires. If we all put in $20 like we did for the dyno run we could get some guys to pool their resources and actually put together a test. The snow/ice traction part would be easy. The harder part would be getting objective results on mud and rock.

 

[2000UZJ]

It would be worth it to put together a trial comparing the performance of different tires back-to-back. Same truck, same wheels, same terrain, just different tires. If we all put in $20 like we did for the dyno run we could get some guys to pool their resources and actually put together a test. The snow/ice traction part would be easy. The harder part would be getting objective results on mud and rock.

You all can donate for some 35's

I would test them I've only destroyed 4 BFG AT, shredded a KM-2, and have a gash in one right now.

 

[OregonLC]

Nick if you can put together an objective trial I'd gladly contribute $20 to the cause.

I wonder how to easily get the most objective results? Pull a weighted sled and see which tire can pull the most weight on the skid? I think the harder part would be to control user technique. It would be very easy to bias a tire based upon how torque is applied. And that assumes that each tire wants to be driven the same. Additionally, you'd have to do multiple runs at various air pressures to find the sweet spot for each tire. Would be time consuming but very valuable data IMO. All we have now is anecdotal ('those sucked'/'these are the best I've ever had') data.

 

[phsycle]

Too many variables. Weather conditions, soil/trail conditions, location, use of vehicle, etc. It'd almost be like having a "which SUV is the best" shootout. Best thing to do (for me, at least), is to run a set for a season or two, then move on to the next set and compare. For me and what I do, BFG's won out.

 

[RobRed]

Note on the good year DT's : At least here in Texas they have become very hard to find in any desirable size and when I have had tire shops contact the manufacture to see about ordering them they have been told by good year that they are no longer orderable (is that a word?)

Not sure what to make of that.

I'd like to go with the Cooper ST Maxx but the size options are rather limited.

So, looks like I might be going with the Nitto TG's

I wouldn't make anything of that. Sounds like some people in the tire business are lazy. Tire rack as well good year stores in cal have them and can get more.

 

[OregonLC]

Too many variables. Weather conditions, soil/trail conditions, location, use of vehicle, etc. It'd almost be like having a "which SUV is the best" shootout. Best thing to do (for me, at least), is to run a set for a season or two, then move on to the next set and compare. For me and what I do, BFG's won out.

You can control all these things just like the manufacturers do. It's just a question of time and cost.

At $1500/set it would be nice to get more objective performance data. Compare this to now where 90% of what you get is people claiming their current tire is the best because that's what they have.

 

[hoser]

Note on the good year DT's : At least here in Texas they have become very hard to find in any desirable size and when I have had tire shops contact the manufacture to see about ordering them they have been told by good year that they are no longer orderable (is that a word?)

Not sure what to make of that.

Tirerack has real time inventory. I just put SIXTEEN 285/75R16 duratracs in my cart and they had them all available out of Louisiana and available in Nevada on the 26th. I buy a lot of tires from tirerack and send them to my local shop for installation.

 

[phsycle]

You can control all these things just like the manufacturers do. It's just a question of time and cost.

At $1500/set it would be nice to get more objective performance data. Compare this to now where 90% of what you get is people claiming their current tire is the best because that's what they have.

Not sure what you mean by "like the manufacturers do." Do they do any type of comparo testing? If so, then we don't need to perform our own tests, as the manufacturers will post their unbiased results right on their website. ;p

I still don't understand the bases for these tests you're wanting to do, as we all have different uses for our vehicles. That is something you cannot control, and ultimately, make any tests results virtually insignificant.

But I'd still like to see some pics from the shoot out.

 

[OregonLC]

Not sure what you mean by "like the manufacturers do." Do they do any type of comparo testing? If so, then we don't need to perform our own tests, as the manufacturers will post their unbiased results right on their website. ;p

I still don't understand the bases for these tests you're wanting to do, as we all have different uses for our vehicles. That is something you cannot control, and ultimately, make any tests results virtually insignificant.

But I'd still like to see some pics from the shoot out.

I have no idea what the data looks like but I can guarantee you that tire manufacturers have plenty of data on their tires. And if we could rely on manufacturer data alone, there would never be the need for magazines like 'Road&Track' to vet out the real-world results from sales datasheets.

Again, don't know who would have the combination of time, resources, or venues to put something like this together, but I would thing it could work something like this:

Conditions to be tested:
-Snow
-Ice
-Wet pavement
-Dry pavement
-Mud
-Sand
-Loose Rock
-MPG

Test modes:
-Skid test.
--Determine maximum load that can be pulled on a 4x4 flat skid attached to a 12’ lanyard off the hitch.
--Max load determined by vehicle ceasing to move.
--For snow/ice increased friction may be required on skid such as studs.
--All test surfaces to be identical and fresh
---i.e. if on snow, all of similar compaction, temperature, etc.
--For skid test, RPM to be a consistent 3000 until stop is imminent when max power may be used.

-Brake test.
--Determine minimum stopping distance using maximum brake force.

-MPG
--100 mile course of repeatable conditions.
-All tests to be conducted on one vehicle to eliminate variables.

Test modifiers:
-Each tire may be tested multiple times at various pressures to determine which pressure yields the best results.
-Same gear and transmission setting must be used for each trial.

 

[OregonLC]

And heck, if you had the resources you could also try some puncture resistant tests.

 

[Big Green]

I liked my Nittos in the snow, I drive an 80, but i found that the tires do slip when you gun it, one of the reasons i like them is because there predictable, in all situations. the tread design allows you to get traction back fast, it doesn't dig, also laterally its very stable. the 80 and 100 are different but same weight and distribution of that weight, I would go with the Nitto's. they handle all terrain well last 60,000 miles, do great in the sand and rocks, as well as the street, there preditible, and grippy in the snow, and does well on ice. i really doubt you will be disappointed in any of the above choices.

 

[Romer]

I have a lot of experiance with BFG ATKO's. I ran them on my 80 till I went to 35's and wanted a mud tire

I put them on my wife's 4runner and on my daughters trucks.

They are a great dependable tire. Good in snow and ice, great on slick rock in Moab and most wheeling conditions. They did slip when I was wheeling in Flat nasty, loose rock soil. One of the reasons I went to an MT for the Rubicon, but the AT's would have done fine there.

The BFG AT KO is a very long lasting tire. Think I had 45K Miles on my 80 when I swapped and could have gotten another 10-20K miles out of them. It also is very quiet on the highway. I have noticed cuts and slices in the sidewall from rocks more so than the heavy sidewalled MT's I bought

The 100 came with NT Grapplers. I haven't had them for the winter yet, but they handle nice on the road and are quiet. To me, the road behaviour of the BFG ATKO and the NT Grappler are similar enough it's hard to tell a difference. I don't know how long lasting they are in comparison to the BFG's or how the perform after 25K miles.

I have only wheeled on them once and they seemed to do fine, but it wasnt anything to really evaluate them on. I will be doing a 5 day trip through the Maze next month and that should provide a better opportunity to evaluate the offroad performance. I do know Tools r Us and others love the Grapplers for wheeling and I value his opinion.

From what I have seen so far, both tires are a good choice and you couldn't go wrong with either.

Just spent 5 days expedition wheeling through Utah.

Going over Beef Basin in a foot of snow, these held the trail well

Never had an issue with grip on rock or trails

I did have an issue with rocks cutting 3 sidewalls, one tire went flat as a result and I had to buy a new one in Moab. Could be my wheeling style as I have been wheeling with thick sidewalled MTs (Toyo and Cooper) for 6 years.

If your looking for a great Road tire that behaves wheel in offroad traction for moderate wheeling, this is a good choice.

However, if you are going to wheel in areas that have sharp rocks like some of Utahs back country, you will need to be mindful as you take it on the trail to avoid damage/ Something not required with thick sidewalled MT's, but MT's are inferrior to AT's as a road tire.

 

[sailor95]

Thanks for the info! Great reassurance of my choice

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

Do you think the E-rated Nitto TG's have stronger sidewalls?

I was planning to buy some Nitto's but I didn't think about the sidewall situation with all the rocks out here.

Can anyone recommend an AT with stronger sidewalls or something comparable to the Toyo Open Country MT's but lighter and cheaper?

 

[OregonLC]

Do you think the E-rated Nitto TG's have stronger sidewalls?

I was planning to buy some Nitto's but I didn't think about the sidewall situation with all the rocks out here.

Can anyone recommend an AT with stronger sidewalls or something comparable to the Toyo Open Country MT's but lighter and cheaper?

Do you want an AT or an MT? Nitto and Toyo are the same company but branded differently for different markets/dealers. The OC AT and Nitto Terra Grappler are essentially the same along with OC MT and Trail Grap being equals. FWIW, the Terras are 10 ply rated tires.

 

[Romer]

Do you want an AT or an MT? Nitto and Toyo are the same company but branded differently for different markets/dealers. The OC AT and Nitto Terra Grappler are essentially the same along with OC MT and Trail Grap being equals. FWIW, the Terras are 10 ply rated tires.

I read same company differnt tires. Where the NT AT will last a long time, the Toyo AT wears quick.

The Toyo MT and Nitto MT are not the same tire. Look at the tread pattern below. I know you said equals, the reviews I read didn't give them the same ratings, though you are right both look similar. The Toyo MT is much closer to the Cooper. I owned both and thought the Toyo rode better and did not chunk as much

Grappler tread

Toyo Tread

 

[OregonLC]

I read same company differnt tires. Where the NT AT will last a long time, the Toyo AT wears quick.

The Toyo MT and Nitto MT are not the same tire. Look at the tread pattern below. I know you said equals, the reviews I read didn't give them the same ratings, though you are right both are similar. The Toyo MT is much closer to the COOPer. I owned both and thought the Toyo rode better and did not chunk as much

Same in a Lexus/Toyota, Honda/Acura, Infiniti/Nissan, GMC/Chevy way. Not same in an identical way.

 

[Romer]

Same in a Lexus/Toyota, Honda/Acura, Infiniti/Nissan, GMC/Chevy way. Not same in an identical way.

Not to start something, but Lexus is a rebaged Toyota with 98% of the same parts. The difference in tires is tread pattern, construction and possibly materials (havent dug that deep) not a similar analogy. The tread pattern between the two tires I listed above are significantly different. Plus the reports I read shpowed the Toyo's wear faster in both the AT and MT. Thinking the Toyo's are softer which is one of the reasons I like them. The Cooper had an identical tread pattern to the Toyos with harder material and I could tell the difference.

Just my opinion based on what I have owned, read and seen from others

 

[Romer]

Looking online I do see a lot of references to people who have heard same factory, same rubber, different mold and tread.