Best performance shocks that I can put on my fzj80?

[TRAIL TAILOR]

BP51's were my next choice. Though I can't really see how a foam cell and remote res work together... is the res foam filled? Also, are they bypass like the BP51? In either case, OME is taking their sweet time getting the 80 series BP51 released so it will be a matter of availability and cost WHEN it happens.

A foam cell shock is an oil filled foam sleeved chamber not a hollow gas filled chamber. I have this conversation a lot and people don't understand that its not solid foam that cushions the shock. The foam sleeve acts as a neutralizer for gas/liquid separation. Oil takes longer to heat up than gas and therefore a foam cell shock stays cooler.

Tough Dog explanation: (IronMan's terminology is similar from my readings)

"The ‘Foam Cell’ that makes all the difference is a micro-cellular foam insert that helps to drastically reduce the effects of shock fade, allowing your shocks to perform better for longer, even on the harshest of corrugations. Cavitation and Aeration are the undoing of any shock absorber. As the shock is worked harder, the oil and gas in the outer chamber begins to mix and form bubbles, lowering the viscosity of the oil. When this aerated oil passes through the valve, there is reduced resistance, stopping the shock fromm performing correctly. The Foam Cell insert, with its trapped gas micro cells takes up the empty space in the shock normally taken up by air or nitrogen gas. This eliminates the possibility of bubbles forming, allowing the shock to get on with the job with an unparalleled resistance to shock fade."

Hey its an "advertisement" but other than forum blah blah... at least they try educate the public in a world wide aspect for people to actually see and try relate to.



J

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

A foam cell shock is an oil filled foam sleeved chamber not a hollow gas filled chamber. I have this conversation a lot and people don't understand that its not solid foam that cushions the shock. The foam sleeve acts as a neutralizer for gas/liquid separation. Oil takes longer to heat up than gas and therefore a foam cell shock stays cooler.

Tough Dog explanation: (IronMan's terminology is similar from my readings)

"The ‘Foam Cell’ that makes all the difference is a micro-cellular foam insert that helps to drastically reduce the effects of shock fade, allowing your shocks to perform better for longer, even on the harshest of corrugations. Cavitation and Aeration are the undoing of any shock absorber. As the shock is worked harder, the oil and gas in the outer chamber begins to mix and form bubbles, lowering the viscosity of the oil. When this aerated oil passes through the valve, there is reduced resistance, stopping the shock fromm performing correctly. The Foam Cell insert, with its trapped gas micro cells takes up the empty space in the shock normally taken up by air or nitrogen gas. This eliminates the possibility of bubbles forming, allowing the shock to get on with the job with an unparalleled resistance to shock fade."

Hey its an "advertisement" but other than forum blah blah... at least they try educate the public in a world wide aspect for people to actually see and try relate to.



J

No, I know how they work (my tjm are foam cell)...I just can't picture how they work with a remote res. I guess it's just a foam cell with extra oil capacity which just seems like another way to add cavitation since it's not under pressure like a gas charge

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

No, I know how they work (my tjm are foam cell)...I just can't picture how they work with a remote res. I guess it's just a foam cell with extra oil capacity which just seems like another way to add cavitation since it's not under pressure like a gas charge

From my understanding the main and resi are both a foam cell chamber. I'll know more details in a couple more months.

I've yet to experience fade or cavitation in a TD foam cell.

Which TJMs do you have; model?

J

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

From my understanding the main and resi are both a foam cell chamber. I'll know more details in a couple more months.

I've yet to experience fade or cavitation in a TD foam cell.


Which TJMs do you have; model?

J

Xgs adjustable. They're okay, certainly tough. They seem to be a dead ringer design wise to the tough dog adjustable foam cell

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Xgs adjustable. They're okay, certainly tough. They seem to be a dead ringer design wise to the tough dog adjustable foam cell

I thought the Tiger was the only TJM foam cell and the XGS Gold was an adjustable nitro charged shock, which is similar to the Rancho 9000. I'm probably wrong, as I'm not much up on TJM products. I'll have to look to be sure.

J

 

[Burbot]

Lifted my fzj80 with OME coils and put OME shocks on. Beat them mercilessly for 5 years. Noticed increase in fading on washboard. Replaced with OME I'm happy with these feel v good bang for the buck. And that's the question. How do you drive?how fast do you drive? I think most of us can get buy with a good nitro charged shock. The more hoses for remote chrg shock set up the more to go wrong. Tunability is great but once you find a sweet spot you won't move the adjustment and it will seize anyway. This opinion from 30 yrs of Cruisering. Cheap gas shocks ain't worth much and don't cost much. Mine were 600$+. I'll get good value reasonable performance. Stickers don't count for anything

 

[mudgudgeon]

Well I'll take your post with an even larger grain.... Anyone that has that kind of knowledge/experience as a "suspension engineer" that can't tell a customer NO is only about making a buck, IMO... Otherwise the "inferior product" would NEVER be offered from an ethical business person that was truly about quality and service from 25+ years of usiness experience. But, I'm sure the EFS owners/team would like to know this info.

As far as putting TD and EFS in the same category... That is several of your Aussie vendors/re-sellers responses. I've never run a coil system of EFS', but I have run a leaf spring system and I'll agree with their assessment. I'll always trust a NON-competitors opinion over a competitors or a competitors spokesperson.

I can tell everyone this, I have sold exactly 183 complete Tough Dog kits for 40, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, E-Hilux, Land Rover D1, D2 and D110, Frontier/Navara, BT-50 Mazda, Jeep Wrangler and Ford Rangers with exactly an additional 143 pairs of shocks sold separately since May of 2016. I have yet to have a return for warranty or any mechanical failure or complaint. I have kits and components from day one install to 26K miles from Tough Dog. The only complaint I've had on 4 occasions is that the lift was taller than advertised; 2 on 80 series and 2 on 100 series.

If anyone has had an issue, it was never reported back to me or Tough Dog. I'm all over MUD and 9 other forums with an exceptional CS and product reputation and response time (less than 24 hours, yes I pride myself on this)

Also, I have a ZERO customer base with incomplete, missing or damaged pieces on full kits from Trail Tailor or Tough Dog since I have been the N.A. distributor. My order received to ship date is 48 hours at most (if they order on the weekend) on stocked items. Custom orders are less than 2 weeks if not in stock. Once again due to Tough Dog's excellent service and inventory control in Blacktown.

I'll stand by what, has so far been a 100% satisfied customer base (306 total customer orders, some repeat).

Have a nice day,

J

Take as much salt as you need, take the whole pot

I have no horse in your race, and was not looking to start an argument.

The OP asked for the best performance shock. Let's be honest, tough dog is not that, regardless of your 300 sales.

I agree with the jcardona assessment, of the OPs wants, vs his budget. The two don't fit.

Put in the context of the OP's budget, then, sure, tough dog probably have relevance. As do EFS. As said, I've used them myself when short term budget constraint, and passing mandatory road worthy inspection was of greater consideration than long term suitability.

I stated tough dog had known issues in the past, there's been a few more than 300 sales over 14months in Aus.
Have they fixed this? No idea!
There are products of similar calibre with lower price point, so I'm not likely to find out personally.

Anyone that . . . . (snipped) can't tell a customer NO is only about making a buck, IMO... Otherwise the "inferior product" would NEVER be offered from an ethical business person

So you are saying you sell only THE VERY BEST?
I mean, to do otherwise would be unethical, no?
Yet you sell tough dog? How do you sleep at night?

"The best" has to have some context I guess.

"inferior product"

You words, your emphasis, not mine.

but Yes, I do think there are products superior to EFS, (based on my personal experience) and superior to tough dog
and this not said as a competitor, or as a competitors spokesman (of which, I am neither).

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Take as much salt as you need, take the whole pot

I have no horse in your race, and was not looking to start an argument.


So you are saying you sell only THE VERY BEST?
I mean, to do otherwise would be unethical, no?
Yet you sell tough dog? How do you sleep at night?

"The best" has to have some context I guess.


You words, your emphasis, not mine.

but Yes, I do think there are products superior to EFS, (based on my personal experience) and superior to tough dog
and this not said as a competitor, or as a competitors spokesman (of which, I am neither).

For what TD is in direct comparison to similar offerings I feel it is the best choice from my own and customer experiences compared to several other products available.

TD in combined AU probably sell 300 kits a week for all I know (IDK..) in comparison to my 14 months. But its been in the US for 14 months now and I feel 300 sales on a new player to the US market is huge, especially from a few forum posts and my small website.

With zero warranty issues and zero customer complaints, that reinforces that for me even more. If I know a product is sub-par or I dislike something about it, I do NOT sell it, period. That's my name and reputation. I'll let someone else take that hit.. I sleep great, all of my customers are happy and feel the same way I do about the products I sell and they've bought, so really that's all that matters to me.

Absolutely there are better products out there but they are in a different level and price structure. You can't compare the two. I'd never put TD, OME, EFS etc.. in a class with custom Eibach coils and custom valved King,Bilstein shocks. Just like you can't compare these box kits to OE style aftermarket replacements either. But I'll put them in the same class with others all day long.

Not wanting to argue either, just trying to make sure that all views/details are seen.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

You might want to research that "made in Aus" quote a little harder.

The ironic part is the OME Nitrocharger Sports are in fact manufactured in Australia (not China as was reported).

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

Xgs adjustable. They're okay, certainly tough. They seem to be a dead ringer design wise to the tough dog adjustable foam cell

XGS Tiger Adjustable are foam core.

 

[scottryana]

I think at this price point pick a vendor you like give them a call and just grab a set of shocks.

I very specifically asked what the budget was because "the best performance shocks" are not cheap and it is not often people with an 80 are going to spring for them. Simply because the 80 isn't a desert racer or a road racer. Given that if you just need some shocks to get you by, Tough Dog, OME, Bilstein, Fox lower levels are all going to be comparable and won't offer significant performance differences over the others that is why I say buy from a vendor you like to support them.

Just to give a little more background, the BEST shocks made specifically for the platform will cost you between $465-$700 each.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

The ironic part is the OME Nitrocharger Sports are in fact manufactured in Australia (not China as was reported).

You may want to check that statement as well Kurt

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

A foam cell shock is an oil filled foam sleeved chamber not a hollow gas filled chamber. I have this conversation a lot and people don't understand that its not solid foam that cushions the shock. The foam sleeve acts as a neutralizer for gas/liquid separation. Oil takes longer to heat up than gas and therefore a foam cell shock stays cooler.

J

OK, so putting a strip of yoga mat into a shock to separate oil and gas was a great idea when building a steering damper to stop the gas flowing through the valving when its laying down.

Its cheap way to do it.

A foam or "gas" shock, still works on oil through valves, not gas, just to clarify.

When making a shock, if it has a set piston size and a set oil capacity, it has to generate the same amount of heat if its controlling the same weight and movement.

If it gets hotter, its doing a better job normally. No heat = not doing any work.

The reason a shock will run cooler will be like the NitroChargers, where they are designed to stop working in the 70s Deg C, to protect the shock and stop it cooking. The oil foams, it then wont generate heat when the gas and foam flows through the valving.

The lack of handling then makes you slow down, because the car doesnt drive so nice any more.


So thats why in todays day and age, running a high pressure gas monotube shock which has a much bigger piston, more surface area, allowing a better fast and slow piston speed set up, less heat, more surface area direct to atmosphere for better heat dissipation, on a heavy truck makes way more sense than any twin tube configuration.

A twin tube shock will cope with up to about 25 psi gas pressure internally to help prevent foaming.

A good monotube shock will be anywhere from 150-320 psi gas pressure.

The hotter a monotube gets, the better it gets, as the pressure increases, and should cope with 110-125 deg C temps, compared to engineered to turn off in the 70s Deg C, to pretect itself.

One other advantage not mentioned yet on spending more, but if you have monotube rebuildables, you own them for ever if you invest in quality. Have a problem, easy to rebuild, change, regas.

Rather than be throwing them Away and buying new again when worn out.

This may or may not be the case for some monotube brands who sell an "OE" range of product, which is very generic, but has a brand name sticker on it though, and some great packaging. Price point is a fair indication of performance, bit like buying a Toyota in the first place

 

[cruiseroutfit]

You may want to check that statement as well Kurt

What am I missing? 80 Series shock applications. Marked in box and stamped on shock bodies. Steering dampeners are in fact made by Monroe North America (I believe their MX facility)

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

80 may well be, as Monroe made all of them once, perhaps some of the components, if not some complete models is what I have seen.

 

[Tools R Us]

Much blabber ignored.

This

It's a stock fzj80 with over sized tires

Plus

Also it's a daily driver so pave

I meant 90 or 110 per shock

Equals

Maybe I'm rube, but I find that the Toyota OEM Tokicos, when not 20 years old, are pretty adequate shocks for the truck and its intended usage. I replaced shocks along with the saggier-than-Lindsay-Lohan's-boobs springs with OME "Stock Height" and am very happy with the end result. Adequate damping and acceptable ride quality. It's a solid-axle coil spring truck riding on Load Range E tires...I'm a realist. And at $45/ea, the Tokicos are a good value. Remember, the last of these trucks is 20 years old. And lots of them are running around on dead OEM shocks or Cruddy Monroe/Gabriel replacements.

The dealer shocks are well setup and valved for the intended use. They are quality units, priced right and last a longtime. For a stock spring, pavement DD, there is no need for tuning, re-valving, reservoirs, shock program, nice chest pounding, but totally unnecessary, would be a waste.

 

[rc51kid]

I have been very happy with my Radflo. I have nkt had them long and honestly dont know if i needed 2.5 remot res shocks. But they are owner rebuildable and Radflo was amazing to deal with. Delivering them in 2 weeks when other shocks were goimg to take over 2 months.

I am sure the Kings are nicer but i would put the Radflo at a inexpensive price for a true performance shock. They run about 400 or so each if i rememder right. My point is $100 each wont get you into a performance shock. But it might honestly get you a shock that does everything you need.

On a side note i was happy with my fox 2.0 until they started leaking. Not all 80 owners need or want a 2.5 remote res shock

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

OK, so putting a strip of yoga mat into a shock to separate oil and gas was a great idea when building a steering damper to stop the gas flowing through the valving when its laying down.

Its cheap way to do it.

A foam or "gas" shock, still works on oil through valves, not gas, just to clarify.

When making a shock, if it has a set piston size and a set oil capacity, it has to generate the same amount of heat if its controlling the same weight and movement.

If it gets hotter, its doing a better job normally. No heat = not doing any work.

The reason a shock will run cooler will be like the NitroChargers, where they are designed to stop working in the 70s Deg C, to protect the shock and stop it cooking. The oil foams, it then wont generate heat when the gas and foam flows through the valving.

The lack of handling then makes you slow down, because the car doesnt drive so nice any more.


So thats why in todays day and age, running a high pressure gas monotube shock which has a much bigger piston, more surface area, allowing a better fast and slow piston speed set up, less heat, more surface area direct to atmosphere for better heat dissipation, on a heavy truck makes way more sense than any twin tube configuration.

A twin tube shock will cope with up to about 25 psi gas pressure internally to help prevent foaming.

A good monotube shock will be anywhere from 150-320 psi gas pressure.

The hotter a monotube gets, the better it gets, as the pressure increases, and should cope with 110-125 deg C temps, compared to engineered to turn off in the 70s Deg C, to pretect itself.

One other advantage not mentioned yet on spending more, but if you have monotube rebuildables, you own them for ever if you invest in quality. Have a problem, easy to rebuild, change, regas.

Rather than be throwing them Away and buying new again when worn out.

This may or may not be the case for some monotube brands who sell an "OE" range of product, which is very generic, but has a brand name sticker on it though, and some great packaging. Price point is a fair indication of performance, bit like buying a Toyota in the first place

D,

Would you please give me your monotube shock recommendation for this day to day travel. 6 -7 days a week in a 7933# rig, brand new off the dealer lot, 3" lift, 35" tires.


Actual mileage and conditions below (real life situation here):

88 miles x 2 consisting of paved interstate and hwy. 55-90mph
16.4 miles x 2 consisting of dirt/crushed granite, washboard, potholed road. 20-35mph
4 miles x 2 consisting of in town normal driving.

J

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

D,

Would you please give me your monotube shock recommendation for this day to day travel. 6 -7 days a week in a 7933# rig, brand new off the dealer lot, 3" lift, 35" tires.


Actual mileage and conditions below (real life situation here):

88 miles x 2 consisting of paved interstate and hwy. 55-90mph
16.4 miles x 2 consisting of dirt/crushed granite, washboard, potholed road. 20-35mph
4 miles x 2 consisting of in town normal driving.

J

Thats pretty simple, though 80s havent been new off the lot for quite some time, for the best ride and handling on all those surfaces you would go straight to a stage 4 #slinkylongtravel set up, and have empty to loaded CDC adjustment available, as well as built in hydro bump zone built in.

Firstly, flutter for the sharp bumps road pressures to make the ride more supple like low tyre pressures isntead of pumped up to 60 psi tyres, while allowing more high speed compression for heavier trucks.

Secondly, the CDC set up running half the line pressures at least of a pintle or restriction style adjuster that feels like it hydro locks on the sharp on road bumps.

Thirdly the built in hydro bump for the big hits.

Fourth, the 65% more wheel travel you get with the kit.

Perfect as a kit for 7500-9500lb vehicles, and we have a heavier coil again for rear if over 9500 lb.

SK70814SLT Toyota 80 Series on Icon Suspension Aus Spec Kit Slinky Long Travel Stage 4 Heavy Duty 70mm lift

Your truck will drive like a full size RZR and your dirt potholed road will be same speed as your hwy miles

And Im glad you didnt specify a price in the request, as cost and value arent the same thing, nothing cheap is good, nothing good is cheap.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Thats pretty simple, though 80s havent been new off the lot for quite some time, for the best ride and handling on all those surfaces you would go straight to a stage 4 #slinkylongtravel set up, and have empty to loaded CDC adjustment available, as well as built in hydro bump zone built in.

Firstly, flutter for the sharp bumps road pressures to make the ride more supple like low tyre pressures isntead of pumped up to 60 psi tyres, while allowing more high speed compression for heavier trucks.

Secondly, the CDC set up running half the line pressures at least of a pintle or restriction style adjuster that feels like it hydro locks on the sharp on road bumps.

Thirdly the built in hydro bump for the big hits.

Fourth, the 65% more wheel travel you get with the kit.

Perfect as a kit for 7500-9500lb vehicles, and we have a heavier coil again for rear if over 9500 lb.

SK70814SLT Toyota 80 Series on Icon Suspension Aus Spec Kit Slinky Long Travel Stage 4 Heavy Duty 70mm lift

Your truck will drive like a full size RZR and your dirt potholed road will be same speed as your hwy miles

And Im glad you didnt specify a price in the request, as cost and value arent the same thing, nothing cheap is good, nothing good is cheap.

D,

Not a 80 or cruiser, but you prefer the monotube for heavier rigs. So just trying to see why they never worked for me on my Dodge 3500, but a cheaper twin tube outlasted them. Hence my disdain for monotubes. My wife worked on the same project and drove her 80 50% of the time and Fox and ?? shock didn't last either.

Here is my actual shock log over the course of my ownership of a 2009 Dodge 3500. All shocks were single tube/smoothie styles.

Monotube $$-- 3085.68 mileage 35493 cost per mile--- 8.69¢ per mile

Twin tube $$-- 593.44 mileage 58239 cost per mile--- 1.06¢ per mile