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- #41
Not sure about voltmeter setting, but he did say he started pulling fuses one at a time.
Best battery for stock LX570? (2 Viewers)
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- Thread starter
- #42
I asked him about the voltmeter and he said he had a slightly different setup, and then he lost me when he started explaining it. But he did pull fuses one by one, and so far everything is good, I’m only out about $170, so I’m happy. Next I have to figure why I have no GPS signal on the map screen…
He may have used one of these clamp meters which does not require you to disconnect the negative side and potentially overload your volt meter amp capacity. Or otherwise yet...
I swapped a Costco Energizer 24F AGM Battery 5 years ago because it's lightweight. I was concerned after reading other people's opinions but never had an issue. Nothing like winch, fridge, lights. I've hooked it up to a battery tender a couple times
I have bought Toyota True Start27F battery via parts.toyota.com yesterday with pick up from the local Toyota dealer. Let’s see how it does.
My previous battery finally died couple days ago it was Lexus 27F battery installed by the dealer 01/21 and dated 09/20. Under the Lexus stickers there was a lonely sticker with mfg month/year and bar code pointing to Jonson Controls manufacturer. Will try to charge/repair it, if it not going to hold charge will give it up for recycling.
To be honest I am surprised it lasted 4+ years in Florida heat been constantly undercharged, (short trips and long park time 4-5 days with no action).
P.S Just for fun I popped cell caps and left most cell had less fluid then the rest. I added some distilled water to make it the same level as the rest.
My previous battery finally died couple days ago it was Lexus 27F battery installed by the dealer 01/21 and dated 09/20. Under the Lexus stickers there was a lonely sticker with mfg month/year and bar code pointing to Jonson Controls manufacturer. Will try to charge/repair it, if it not going to hold charge will give it up for recycling.
To be honest I am surprised it lasted 4+ years in Florida heat been constantly undercharged, (short trips and long park time 4-5 days with no action).
P.S Just for fun I popped cell caps and left most cell had less fluid then the rest. I added some distilled water to make it the same level as the rest.
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The X2 battery that Batteries plus sells is the best 27F battery. 92AH Even better than the Odessey. I believe East Penn makes it. I just put one in my 2014 I just picked up. I had 2 of them previously last 10 years and sold with my 2004 super duty and they still may be going lol
I had one of these in my old truck. It was great!
My hesitation is with bAtTeRIeS pLuS bULbS. They’re not easy to deal with regarding warranty claims. Ask me how I know.
Luckily I did not have to deal with that. This one I had to order on their site then store pickup and the date code was fresh within 2 months. Hopefully it will outlast the warranty, I live in San Diego so batteries last a long time here. The X2 are the only thing I would buy there I think lol.
Assume you all know that the 200 series is not setup for AGM batteries (alternator charges at around 13.8 volt instead of 14.5 volt) and that AGM in the engine bay due to elevated temperatures is not going to last much longer than a lead acid battery.
Unless a modification is made so it charges at the right voltage, I would not spend the extra $$$ on an AGM.
Unless a modification is made so it charges at the right voltage, I would not spend the extra $$$ on an AGM.
I Disagree with all of this
Had Odyssey AGMs in my Tundra (same charging system as 200), 100, 80s
One of them was over 10 years old. These vehicles saw extended draw and vibration abuse over 1000s of Offroad miles all throughout Baja, CA deserts and Death Valley
While the charge profile may not give the AGM its full peak charge, it still gets it to the same level as the lead acid alternative and works perfectly fine with no negative issues
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong
Try to explain why in simple terms using an AGM in a 200 would be a negative idea without trying to recite specs
We have anyone here claiming early AGM battery (of good quality) failure??
The temperature argument is completely invalid in the real world. I’ve debunked this 6 ways to Sunday over the years
With all that being said, the lead acid in my 200 has no date code or sticker on it and I have no idea how old it is, so it will be replaced with an AGM soon
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I am aware of this as the same as most older vehicles don’t have AGM batteries stock. But I have had great results with them and have put them in every car and truck I’ve ever owned since I could afford them. I always ran some sort of high current accessories in all my vehicles (subwoofer, big amps, RF radio amps, large 12v air compressors, power inverters etc. These deep cycle AGMs have always treated me right except for Optima’s are garbage after the early 2000’s.
Also when it’s alternator time, you can get a DC Power Alternator for about the same price as OE unit, except it will idle 200 amps and max out at 270 amps with same size pulley and no need to buy a shorter belt You can also ask them to build it with a AGM voltage rectifier if you want.
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hows the longevity on the DC power alternator? If it’s as simple as “plug and play” without further mods and lasts, that sounds good! If it’s built with mopar/etc quality, that could prove problematic.
Yes they are plug and play and one of the few that have the same size pulley as stock. I had one in my previous truck for about 7 years and sold it with it. I have one for my LX 570 also but it’s in a box ready for when OE unit fails. They take a couple weeks to get so I wanted it ready to go when this one fails.
Would you mind sharing what is this based on?
My general understanding
- Lead Acid is charged at 13.9 to 14.0 volt
- AGM is charged at 14.8 volt
- Charging speed and charging cut off is different for each type battery
- BMW and other German vehicles have power management systems which needs resetting adapting their charging profile extending battery life and reducing battery waste in the process. It is known when you do not do this that an exact AGM replacement gets undercharged pretty quickly and can die on you. Enough documented cases in BMW forums and clubs.
Perhaps 200 series is different?
- Stock alternator is setup to charge lead acid at 13.8 to 13.9 volt. I have measured/observed the same at the battery
- I do not know what else the 200 series OEM alternator does regarding charging amperage and reducing the same when getting full. Perhaps the basic way it works makes you say it is fine to run either Lead Acid or AGM.
Can you please expand what you know specific about this and or how this translates to our 200 series?
Hearsay at Pep Boys or Autozone or most YT'ers does not convince me. Then again you may have some insights which I would like to know.
Thanks a lot!
You are confusing either:
AGM technology with older GEL technology which did in fact had lower Absorption voltege
Or
Absorption voltage with Float Voltage of AGM technology
AGM is good replacement for flooded, make sure to go with Dual Purpose AGM versus true Deep Cycle AGM, most manufacturers make Dual Purpose and Deep Cycle distinction, Dual Purpose would provide better cranking power. Optima also has AGM starting battery (redtop), dual purpose - yellowtop and deep cycle bluetop.
Number one upgrade on boats is to upgrade flood to agm - no need to change charger or alternator. Charging profile is slightly different amd some chargers allow adjustment but difference is not significant 0.1 -0.2v and varies by battery / charger manufacturer. For good read on AGM technology search for Lifeline (Concorde) technical manual.
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All great anecdotes for new comers to this platform. Which has concerns that can be unique. Years ago, I had people literally cussing at me, telling me why their AGMs were superior, and why there's no integration issues. The reality with enough years, is that many of those same adamant individuals have learned first hand with prematurely failed AGMs on this platform. Even as some try to prolong compromised AGMs with constant charger use.
A healthy and well integrated battery does not require weekly plugging into a float charger - as Toyota designed.
Use case matters. Those in colder climates won't as likely experience premature of failures. The temp compensating alternator holds a higher voltage in cold and heat damage isn't as much an issue. Those that use this vehicle as highway overlanding and trip vehicles, keeping the battery on tenders, also won't see as pointed of issues.
The charge curve is absolutely an issue. Why buy an expensive battery but compromise with "good enough" on the integration. Good enough in this case is a big compromise, particularly closer to the edges like hot conditions where the temp compensating alternator is barely putting out 13V. Undercharging and sulfation is real. Otherwise, why would chargers or regulators even bother with different settings and profiles. Because it matters to the overall performance and life of the battery.
Sure, throw a voltage diode in there - see next issue.
A larger problem can be heat for those that live in warmer climates and like to low speed crawl. The engine bay is tight when shoehorning a larger Group 31. It puts the battery right by the hot flow of the radiator heat (fluids at 193°+) and exhaust header. Go lookup any AGM manual, many will say they should avoid charging above 125°. Several of us have measured the heat underhood where it's easily possibly to see in excess of 165°. Temps that will cause venting in a sealed lead acid that is an AGM. Or at minimum have very real impacts to longevity.
To be fair, flooded lead acids can have these issues too, but the designed charge curve gives it the best chance of a long life. Maybe a lost art, but flooded lead acids can have electrolytes replenished by watering.
As an aside, several of us have noted the battery cells closest to the aforementioned heat sources tend to lose more electrolyte. For those that do a lot of off-roading and rock-crawling, or AGM users, adding some insulation may not be a bad idea. OEM vehicles that come with AGMs will generally have a partitioned space away from the hot engine bay.
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A healthy and well integrated battery does not require weekly plugging into a float charger - as Toyota designed.
Use case matters. Those in colder climates won't as likely experience premature of failures. The temp compensating alternator holds a higher voltage in cold and heat damage isn't as much an issue. Those that use this vehicle as highway overlanding and trip vehicles, keeping the battery on tenders, also won't see as pointed of issues.
The charge curve is absolutely an issue. Why buy an expensive battery but compromise with "good enough" on the integration. Good enough in this case is a big compromise, particularly closer to the edges like hot conditions where the temp compensating alternator is barely putting out 13V. Undercharging and sulfation is real. Otherwise, why would chargers or regulators even bother with different settings and profiles. Because it matters to the overall performance and life of the battery.
Sure, throw a voltage diode in there - see next issue.
A larger problem can be heat for those that live in warmer climates and like to low speed crawl. The engine bay is tight when shoehorning a larger Group 31. It puts the battery right by the hot flow of the radiator heat (fluids at 193°+) and exhaust header. Go lookup any AGM manual, many will say they should avoid charging above 125°. Several of us have measured the heat underhood where it's easily possibly to see in excess of 165°. Temps that will cause venting in a sealed lead acid that is an AGM. Or at minimum have very real impacts to longevity.
To be fair, flooded lead acids can have these issues too, but the designed charge curve gives it the best chance of a long life. Maybe a lost art, but flooded lead acids can have electrolytes replenished by watering.
As an aside, several of us have noted the battery cells closest to the aforementioned heat sources tend to lose more electrolyte. For those that do a lot of off-roading and rock-crawling, or AGM users, adding some insulation may not be a bad idea. OEM vehicles that come with AGMs will generally have a partitioned space away from the hot engine bay.
Starter Battery Heat Shield?
Interesting thing I've noticed a couple times now. I have a larger Group 31 starting battery. Old habit of watering lead acid batteries from my camper. I've noticed consistently that the water level on the cell closest to the motor is lower than the other cells. For normal commuting, this is...
forum.ih8mud.com
I looked up the lifeline manual as I cannot believe that summary you are showing. Its in fact not in there, so what is the source of the summary? It seems way out there voltage wise or perhaps those are initial ideal charging conditions for a fully empty battery.
As stated before, common available Lead Acid batteries and the one installed in the 200 series have an optimum charge voltage of around 13.8 to 14.0 volt at 15% current of its capacity (i.e. 15 amp for a 100 Ah) and AGM is around 14.5 to 14.8 volt at 25% of its capacity (i.e. 25 amp for a 100 Ah). This does vary when the battery is completely empty or faces very cold conditions. I understand the power management system on a BMW takes care of those differences including the optimum charging current as a function of battery condition, be it they have the battery in the boot at pretty ideal (ambient) temperature conditions, so they do rightly use AGM's. While I have not studied this for the 200 series OEM alternator, i understand at initial ambient temp conditions it will do around 13.8 volt dropping to around 13.3 volt at high temperatures. Not much smartness going on there, which also keeps it simple and arguable more reliable.
I therefore conclude that putting an AGM battery under the hood of a 200 series is low value for money. I would recommend buying a good quality and if you like higher capacity lead acid battery than factory, making max use of the available space and as required go to the effort of modifying the terminals to make it work. Or adding a second lead acid in parallel.
As stated before, common available Lead Acid batteries and the one installed in the 200 series have an optimum charge voltage of around 13.8 to 14.0 volt at 15% current of its capacity (i.e. 15 amp for a 100 Ah) and AGM is around 14.5 to 14.8 volt at 25% of its capacity (i.e. 25 amp for a 100 Ah). This does vary when the battery is completely empty or faces very cold conditions. I understand the power management system on a BMW takes care of those differences including the optimum charging current as a function of battery condition, be it they have the battery in the boot at pretty ideal (ambient) temperature conditions, so they do rightly use AGM's. While I have not studied this for the 200 series OEM alternator, i understand at initial ambient temp conditions it will do around 13.8 volt dropping to around 13.3 volt at high temperatures. Not much smartness going on there, which also keeps it simple and arguable more reliable.
I therefore conclude that putting an AGM battery under the hood of a 200 series is low value for money. I would recommend buying a good quality and if you like higher capacity lead acid battery than factory, making max use of the available space and as required go to the effort of modifying the terminals to make it work. Or adding a second lead acid in parallel.
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