"Best" 5mm hex (allen) socket? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CharlieS
- Start date
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Atta boy!
And ya, we don’t suffer here like the snow-folk do...but I think sometimes we’re the ones who fall prey to it because we don’t think about it much.
I discovered just how one really sloppy drive through Silverton post-road-treatment rain can wreak havoc on all sorts o stuff. Nasty...
Good PSA Mark. Supposed to start snowing in the front range tonight.
+1 on that PSA.
I wiped off and re-greased mine when I hit everything with fluid film a month ago. The KDSS still looks like new even after 4-5 years of Chicago winters. Marine grease FTW.
In case anyone is curious, it took me 4 rattle cans of FF to coat my frame, rear diff, skid plates, underside of the sliders, and as many suspension parts, nuts, and bolts as I could find. Add 1-2 cans if you want to hit the inside of the frame very liberally...
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #44
I know this is a slight shift of topic, but since you mentioned marine grease... I've got both marine grease and LPS3 in thee shop - is there an advantage to one over the other for this or other underbody rust protection? I've also heard mixed reviews of undercoating films like fluid film and woolwax, some swear by them, some swear at them. I'm really torn about whether to use it or not, because there are people I really respect in both camps.
@CharlieS, Where are you at?
I'm not familiar with LPS3. I like marine grease for the KDSS valves because if you slather it on it will still be on there a year later.
FF/WW is fine for spraying the frame. It's oily/messy so you won't love working with stuff coated in it, but it'll help protect the frame and nuts/bolts from getting rusty as quickly. I wouldn't bother to FF my truck if I lived in Georgia or Texas, but here in Chicago the asphalt develops a white color all winter from the salt. FF wears off and you really should do at least a touch up every few months in the winter (though most folks like me just do it once a year and leave it)
Rubberized undercoatings are typically bad and should be avoided. Especially as they age they tend to trap moisture between the coating and the frame and will accelerate rust once water gets in there.
I'm not familiar with LPS3. I like marine grease for the KDSS valves because if you slather it on it will still be on there a year later.
FF/WW is fine for spraying the frame. It's oily/messy so you won't love working with stuff coated in it, but it'll help protect the frame and nuts/bolts from getting rusty as quickly. I wouldn't bother to FF my truck if I lived in Georgia or Texas, but here in Chicago the asphalt develops a white color all winter from the salt. FF wears off and you really should do at least a touch up every few months in the winter (though most folks like me just do it once a year and leave it)
Rubberized undercoatings are typically bad and should be avoided. Especially as they age they tend to trap moisture between the coating and the frame and will accelerate rust once water gets in there.
Markuson
SILVER Star
Not an authority here. Lots of ways to seal it that I’ve heard from others.
For me, I started using Marine grease some years ago and just haven’t found a reason to change, as it’s always stayed in place and doesn’t seem to migrate.
Might want to hear from folks who live in truly nasty salt/mud conditions if that applies to your area. Meanwhile, don’t wait. Get something on there after making sure it’s clean and dry. Super quick and easy.
For me, I started using Marine grease some years ago and just haven’t found a reason to change, as it’s always stayed in place and doesn’t seem to migrate.
Might want to hear from folks who live in truly nasty salt/mud conditions if that applies to your area. Meanwhile, don’t wait. Get something on there after making sure it’s clean and dry. Super quick and easy.
bloc
SILVER Star
I don’t live where corrosion is a problem but I did do some research into LPS3. It is designed specifically to avoid corrosion originally for the aviation industry, and does so with a thin layer that doesn’t make nearly as much of a mess as marine grease if you need to do any work on the part. But, I haven’t read much on here about how it does in very salty places. Clearly marine grease works, is cheap, readily available, etc.
I keep LPS3 on my valve and just brush the thin layer and little bit of dirt it attracts off once a year then reapply. But as mentioned corrosion isn’t a problem here, so avoiding a mess is high on my priority list.
More options is a good thing.
I keep LPS3 on my valve and just brush the thin layer and little bit of dirt it attracts off once a year then reapply. But as mentioned corrosion isn’t a problem here, so avoiding a mess is high on my priority list.
More options is a good thing.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #49
Good luck! Welding worked fit me on the last one, I'm just hoping I can avoid it this time. My snap-on bit and replacement hex parts should be here soon, daily kroil soakings in the meantime...@CharlieS I'm in the middle of the same nightmare!.. I broke a couple of Cheaper sockets now I've got a couple of snap-on's.. good thing is they'll twist before they break and the hex part is replaceable. I will probably go ahead and weld mine as nothing I've tried has worked
Thinking outside the box, what about sidestepping the KDSS valve completely? Or one valve is enough to get by. We know the KDSS system will ultimately equalize on its own in a few days?
Install the suspension and use other strategies to line things up to bolt down. Can loosen up the KDSS bar frame brackets to get some more play. Use a jack under the LCAs to line things up. Ratchet straps. Lever bars. It might all be a pain but perhaps less pain than dealing with the KDSS valve. There's at least one shop that I heard of doing it this way.
Install the suspension and use other strategies to line things up to bolt down. Can loosen up the KDSS bar frame brackets to get some more play. Use a jack under the LCAs to line things up. Ratchet straps. Lever bars. It might all be a pain but perhaps less pain than dealing with the KDSS valve. There's at least one shop that I heard of doing it this way.
bloc
SILVER Star
It will work, but with continued low effort the problem might be fixed and make all that extra stuff unnecessary.
@TeCKis300 that is precisely what I have done. The rear is already finished. And I've got one side of the front done. What I did was merely unhook the sway bar links..
My KDSS hex bolts work just fine. But---if they did not I would consider drilling straight up through the threads (between the bolt and the housing) with a small bit. The threads on the bolt do not provide the seal, they only keep the bolt in place on the actual seals. If you drill up two or so threads (there is an image somewhere on MUD that will tell you how many threads make sense) then Kroil could better penetrate. Maybe. Once you have a hole you can pressurize the drilled hole and encourage the Kroil to go the last mile. I like Kroil and it almost never fails me. But it has to reach in to work. If that failed I would just replace the KDSS value assembly and mark it down in my my lessons-learned book.
I would imagine the problem is the bolts being upside down.. it doesn't have a chance to seep in there
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #55
Yes, this is how I've done it before, but I was left with a massive lean, so eventually had to get the valve opened anyway. No amount of time, parking on blocks, etc fixed it. It is what I'll do again if a week of soaking, better sockets, and other strategies fails. I was hoping to avoid it with this newer vehicle though.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #56
Agreed. It it like a twice daily ritual fir me to soak it with kroil, and give another try. I'm up to five snapped bits now. Fortunately none of the broken ends have gotten permanently lodged in the hole. Snap on bit arrives Friday, so it is helping me with my patience.
bloc
SILVER Star
At first glance this idea seems a little crazy but with some thought I’m warming up to it.
My version would be a very small drill bit starting inside the hex and going diagonally outward through the threaded area. As you said this would allow kroil into the threads above the corroded section and gravity would bring it down on top.. basically much greater penetration of the stuff mitigating the sticking.
And if done correctly it won’t compromise the strength of the bolt nor impact the seal at all.
You’d just need to be judicious with the marine grease or LPS3 afterward as more bare metal is another place for corrosion to start.
I can dig up my cross section pictures and draw in the area I’m talking about if it would help.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #58
My latest idea is to put a suitable nut up there against the shutter valve screw, just crank up the amperage on my mig welder and put the heat to it with a low wire speed until things get nice and red. It might weld the nut on, and if it does, so be it. It might also just make things bloody hot and get some good expansion/contraction going with no welding, poor/no penetration. Unless I frag the internal o-ring, I don't think there's much harm in trying this.
I see where you guys are going with the drill idea, and like it, but I think that might have to keep that in reserve for now.
Oh, and I don't know if I'm just seeing things, but the kroil seems to wick up the threads.
I see where you guys are going with the drill idea, and like it, but I think that might have to keep that in reserve for now.
Oh, and I don't know if I'm just seeing things, but the kroil seems to wick up the threads.
bloc
SILVER Star
I have had shockingly good results with welding to get stuck bolts/nuts loose.. and people here have had it work well on KDSS. You could also monitor the temp in the o-ring area of the valve body to try and avoid damaging them. The big question would be what they are made of.. if regular Buna-N they are only 100% to about 250F. Viton, which seems unlikely here as it is significantly more expensive and usually used in moderate temp or for certain chemicals that don't play nicely with cheaper elastomers, is good to 400F.
Given the pressure, temp, and fluid environment here, it could be either one.
Usually these temp limits are for long term exposure, and this wouldn't be that.. but at some point even short term will just melt it out of the way, especially with all the pressure behind it.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
- Thread starter
- #60
@bloc since you may be the only person to ever have one of these apart - isn't the primary sealing surface the interior conical end of the shutter valve screw against the taper of the valve body, not the rubber o-ring?
My completely unsubstantiated and uneducated theory is that there is so much thermal mass in that giant block of steel that the o-ring doesn't get that hot during a brief welding operation, even though a lot of heat is applied in a concentrated area.
My completely unsubstantiated and uneducated theory is that there is so much thermal mass in that giant block of steel that the o-ring doesn't get that hot during a brief welding operation, even though a lot of heat is applied in a concentrated area.
