Bearing repack GURUs

[looking4lc]

You'll not hear or feel chatter, it shows up on claw washer first as scoring. Once chatter gets to point of vibration you can feel while driving, is when damage is being done to many components and rig is unsafe to drive on HWY. The chatter referred to in the above video is from sound of brakes pads, as a result spring retainer not being installed.

Your claw washer shows chatter marks (scoring or grooving) which I'll bet is from bearings being to loose. This is very common to see.

To say your snap ring gap was the same before and after is doubtful. If you change the torque, flip the claw washer so good side in or replaced, the gap will change. It is important to check the gap and get a very accurate reading.

I will torque the adjustment nut to 10-15 lbf In couple of days, washer is scoring from both side, whats the point of flipping?

 

[looking4lc]

Nevermind I got new claw washer, lock washer and gasket.

 

[Julian Stead]

If the washer has wear both sides I would change it.

I am going to recheck my bearings after 5k, and reset the preload plus more if I have lost torque on the adjusting nut.

 

[hardhat]

I said f*&^ it and torqued my bearings to 23ft/lbs pounds and lock nut to 43 ft/lbs and called it good, this was after trying the service manual suggestions and a fish scale. Could not get a consistent reading that way. Checked for play and free movement and all was good. My rig has 95k on it and its the 3rd repack. I replaced front rotors &pads. Drives better than new and smooth as butter/ margarine. Ill do it the same way next time.

 

[2001LC]

I said f*&^ it and torqued my bearings to 23ft/lbs pounds and lock nut to 43 ft/lbs and called it good, this was after trying the service manual suggestions and a fish scale. Could not get a consistent reading that way. Checked for play and free movement and all was good. My rig has 95k on it and its the 3rd repack. I replaced front rotors &pads. Drives better than new and smooth as butter/ margarine. Ill do it the same way next time.

It can be very taxing on one's patience to get a good average reading with a fish scale.

Some tips for those that wish to use scale:
Turn wheel hub several times in direction of travel.
Find the tightest feeling spot during rotation to start from.
Stop with one stud at top dead center, never turning back.
Pull on scale very slowly at exact 90* angle.
Take multiple readings, until three in a row readings are within a pound of each other to get average.

 

[abuck99]

Great thread!

Thanks 2001- your supplying some very useful info.

I greased the spindles over the weekend using the axle push method. I squirted a good bead all the way around bushing- then pulled and pushed the axle in and out to get the grease inside the bushing to the bearings. I couldn't find any #1 so used the #2 Lucas red & tacky that I've been pumping into the u joints.

 

[looking4lc]

Done !

replaced claw washer, oil seal, lock washer, gasket and adjusted locknut to 17 lb.

 

[2001LC]

Great you've done a job as good or better than most shops'. You never stated how many miles on you 100's bearings. Based on look of lock washer it's been reused more than once and claw washer had been flipped before as well. So 17lbf is a good guess.

You've never mention the snap ring gap, so I assume you don't have a feeler gauge! PROTO Feeler Gauge Set,25 PC - Thickness Gages - 3R002|J000AA - Grainger Industrial Supply
I recommend you get one and check your gap when you have time. It can be done by just pulling off grease cap, threading a bolt into end of axle and pulling hard.

 

[sean2202]

Great thread did my first repack on my rig this last weekend. I sourced new bearings, seals, claw washer, star lock washer, snap rings and fish scale from cruiser solutions. Used Molly greese with slee tool for needle bearings and Mobil 1 synthetic for wheel bearings.
2001LC why do you choose marine grease for this application around hubs?
How do you know when a cone washer fails inspection?
Using blue locktite on hub nuts are you finding that they loosen up over time?
Anybody have or know where I can get those expandable snap ring pliers Napa and advanced auto by me do not have.

 

[2001LC]

Great thread did my first repack on my rig this last weekend. I sourced new bearings, seals, claw washer, star lock washer, snap rings and fish scale from cruiser solutions. Used Molly greese with slee tool for needle bearings and Mobil 1 synthetic for wheel bearings.
2001LC why do you choose marine grease for this application around hubs?
How do you know when a cone washer fails inspection?
Using blue locktite on hub nuts are you finding that they loosen up over time?
Anybody have or know where I can get those expandable snap ring pliers Napa and advanced auto by me do not have.

Marine grease doesn't wash out easily, and keeps area from rusting or corroding. If you've every have a wheel stuck on hub you'll no why.
I clean and inspect cones' for damage or pitting. FSM states not reusable.
Flange nuts: FSM states not reusable. I find the threads are a bit loose on studs and torque is pretty light. Loctite gives me peace of mind.

I stopped using moly anywhere in axle bearing & bushing or wheel bearings, as moly retains heat. Don't worry, you'll be ok with moly and many shop do use it on axle bushing.

 

[sean2202]

I was under the impression Molly was supposed to be used on needle bearings has this changed? My spindle and claw washer looked similar to original post. Grease was ugly and last shop used a chisel to put the axle and adjusting nut on. I did have to torque to 23lb on bearing nut to get 10 1/2 on fish scale.

 

[2003lx470]

I need do this pretty soon. Can someone please include information on "best" grease types I should use for this job? Pictures very helpful.

 

[looking4lc]

Great you've done a job as good or better than most shops'. You never stated how many miles on you 100's bearings. Based on look of lock washer it's been reused more than once and claw washer had been flipped before as well. So 17lbf is a good guess.

You've never mention the snap ring gap, so I assume you don't have a feeler gauge! PROTO Feeler Gauge Set,25 PC - Thickness Gages - 3R002|J000AA - Grainger Industrial Supply
I recommend you get one and check your gap when you have time. It can be done by just pulling off grease cap, threading a bolt into end of axle and pulling hard.

View attachment 1252382

Thanks Paul for your help again, you provided valuable info

i've have the truck since 2014 and repacked the bearings 60K miles at a shop but didn't like their job nor they know what they are doing (they torque it without torque wrench, packing the bearings just the outside, so i decided to do it myself.
true i don't have the feeler gauge, what the purpose of that again?

 

[apdxyk]

I need do this pretty soon. Can someone please include information on "best" grease types I should use for this job? Pictures very helpful.

The "best" would be LE 3751 - - Lubrication Engineers Almagard 3751 (NLGI #1) that LE recommends to use on wheel bearings calling for NLGI #2. It's that good! But it will cost you. Should you insist on NLGI #2, the LE ALmagard 3752 is the ticket. It can be procured at smaller quantities and cheaper ( e.g MAG-HYTEC will sell you singles). Otherwise, it's a regional group buy, since buying less than in 10 tubes increments is not practical.
I wouldn't overthink this. A lube is better than no lube.. A friend has 383K miles on his 2003 LX470 with no wheel bearing repacks whatsoever. I disapprove, but he is a living proof of build and engineering quality of these machines.

 

[2001LC]

Thanks Paul for your help again, you provided valuable info

i've have the truck since 2014 and repacked the bearings 60K miles at a shop but didn't like their job nor they know what they are doing (they torque it without torque wrench, packing the bearings just the outside, so i decided to do it myself.
true i don't have the feeler gauge, what the purpose of that again?

Feeler gauge is to measure snap ring to hub flange gap. It must be no greater than 0.20MM.

Go back and look at post #15 last picture. You'll see feel gauge blade 0.23MM in gap.

 

[abuck99]

How

IMHO and by both our experiences: new bearings & races do get to the FSM stated "starting preload of 9.5 - 15lbf" easily at..

I've only recently crossed over ~40ft-lbf torque on adjusting nut, which I have become concerned with such a high torque. But to date, all damage I found has been on loose bearings, not tight. It could be going to these high torque levels is a sign it's time to put in new bearings & races, which I plan on doing next service anyway. But first I wanted to push the boundaries just to see what happens. So far my temps readings look good on fronts hubs, with adjusting nut torqued to ~50 and 60ft-lbf with preload starting breakaway at ~11lbf. I have been seeing lower temp readings on front hubs than on rear wheel hubs, with the highest temp at 118*F. So far so good.....

01LC-

Ive got some well worn bearings. Its taking all of 47Ftlbs of torque on the spindle nut to get a preload break away reading of 10-11lbf. Is that what you're alluding to above? Is it allright to leave it set at 47ftlbs or should I back it off and torque to FSM spec?

This is all because I dug into inspect for some drive line slop. Found the locking nut loose, not even finger tight. From the chisel marks on the locking nuts, I suspect the last brake service tech didnt have or use a 54mm socket. The claw washer had grooves worn in deeply on both sides. Outer bearing had some side to side play in it. I don't have new bearings on hand, so I've decided to swap in a new claw washer, regrease the bearings, button it back up and order a a full set of new bearings & seals and dive back in a couple of weeks from now.

 

[2001LC]

You should be fine at 47ft-lb torque, with only at 10-11lbf breakaway preload. FSM adjusting nut torque spec is only starting point. FSM also states to recheck (breakaway preload) after torqueing lock nut which does increase pre load a bit. I've hit 50ft-lbf or even 60ft-lbf on high millage bearings without issue.

Although I've been thinking; that once above 47ft-lb is needed to get proper preload, it's time to replace bearings at next regular service (30k miles). One could wait until they hit limit of thickest snap ring available I suppose, but 60ft-lb makes me a little uncomfortable. Although I've not seen any issue with high bearing temp readings, even at those high torques.

I'll bet your snap ring gap was above limit, did you check?

I do hate seeing those chisel marks on nut or even worst on hub & hub flange. Every time I see that, I know those bearing where set way to loose.

 

[abuck99]

01LC Thanks for your help- Before you replied, I was in a hurry to button it back up so I backed it off to 30ftlbs torque and still was able to average about 10-11lbf breakaway. Based on the DS, I am sure the PS is the same or worse but I'll leave it for the next week or two. This is a temporary setting. With todays learning, I will be going back in and replacing wheel bearings on both sides, spindle nuts, seals, cone washers, lock washers, nuts basically fresh everything; (what should have been done when the new rotors and pads were installed before I bought it).

You are on to something about indication of bearing replacement once you're required to use higher torque settings to achieve the correct break away preload; makes sense. Lets you know the end is near.

I checked the snap ring a couple of weeks ago when I greased the spindle bearings, and it was way off- and way stretched out. I had to go up 2 steps to get the correct fit.

Part of todays investigation was also to get a look at the flange, axle splines and spindle and related hardware. The spindle had a little discoloration, but some super fine scotchbrite removed the hazing that was closest to the end. The flange looks pretty good, the axle splines are ok, but there are some sections on each face of the splines that are really polished.

I had planned on getting rebuilt CV's but these might last me a little longer.

I will note that some of my more noticeable driveline clunk noise is gone just by tightening the bearing preload.

 

[2001LC]

I find it a PITA to get three reads in a row near the same (average) on my fish scale, while setting breakaway preload.

I can clearly see the signs of loose wheel bearings. One sign being on back of spindle where rear bearing seats (butts up against). I've use emery cloth too clean off bur line on the back surface of spindle. The more this back surface is worn down, the wider the snap ring gap. Since bearings roll on races, I'm a bit more aggressive using emery cloth when cleaning all surfaces of the spindle.

You can swap drive shafts from one side to the other, which puts least worn teeth of axle in direction of travel (load side). This will reduce the N to D "clunk" a little more. Same goes for hub flanges. Note: Best practice to replace inner snap ring and differential oil seal if drive shaft removed.

 

[abuck99]

01,

Have you replaced this seal yet? Mine seemed to have lost its shape a bit in a few areas, and the seal material itself was somewhat stiff- it tends harden up with age, gets loose and doesn't do a good job at sealing out the dust and wet.

Also is there a consensus on wheel bearing grease for the Timken bearings? You seemed to have been studying bearing life, under various conditions figured you might have a go-to suggestion. There are so many opinions, options, misinformation its kind of hard to narrow to a choice.

Synthetic- Mobil 1, Valvoline Synguard, Timken Performance Race Grease
Moly-fortified: Valvoline Durablend or Synguard
Non-moly-Non Synthetic: Timken Wheel bearing grease, Lucas Green