they must have changed because my aa is a lakewood style and the downey is a gm style truck bellhousing with inspection cover on the bottom.i would not use any adapter that wont allow accsses to the clutch or to bearing .then again all my stuff is from the 70,s or 80s and may have seen design changes over the years but i know what i have now and have used in the past .
At a crossroads - Do I open this can of worms? (V8 Location/Clutch Replacement) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RWBeringer4x4
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they must have changed because my aa is a lakewood style and the downey is a gm style truck bellhousing with inspection cover on the bottom.i would not use any adapter that wont allow accsses to the clutch or to bearing .then again all my stuff is from the 70,s or 80s and may have seen design changes over the years but i know what i have now and have used in the past .
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- #83
Here's the Downey Housing that I have - straight from Jim.
It has dual clutch ports, the other side gets "blocked off" by a rubber cover, so there's at least a way to see inside. That said, it's a full circle, no inspection port:
I'm currently running what I believe to be a Lakewood scatter shield - it's also a full circle with no inspection cover.
Inconvenient? Yes. The upside is it's probably stronger.
While you're here - any thoughts on those compression numbers/leak-down percentages? Right now I'm mostly trying to figure out if I should buy a new engine or not. Compression is good, leakage is bad, and I am confused.
http://www.gregsengine.com/cylinder-leakdown-testing.html
I think this sums up the leakdown test and results very well.
I can't imagine that the "pop" would be anything but a valve that's sticking. The cause of the valve sticking could be a few things, but the overall problem sounds like a valve is stuck (at least partially) open.
I think this sums up the leakdown test and results very well.
I can't imagine that the "pop" would be anything but a valve that's sticking. The cause of the valve sticking could be a few things, but the overall problem sounds like a valve is stuck (at least partially) open.
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- #85
Yeah, it seems like the general consensus on most sites is "less than 10% is great, 10-20% is normal, anything beyond 20% is worrisome, 30%+ your engine is hosed."
So, based on this assessment, I have 1 solid cylinder, 6 cylinders that are on the "border line" of acceptable normal wear, and one that is just on the other side of the border line.
As for sticking valves - once it "popped" the engine sealed up to the percentages reported. I never heard anything from the carb or tailpipe but the "pop" happened too early for me to really hear. Assuming it WAS a valve, I'd have to assume once it popped, it closed completely...Otherwise I would have heard or felt something through the carb or tailpipe, right? That said, I imagine any sticking is not normal.
What's the cure for sticking valves? Sea-Foam and a hammer tap on all the lifters?
I think between the excellent compression numbers, and non-catastrophic leak-down numbers, I'm considering resealing and running this thing. If I can get several more years of life out of this thing before it needs a complete tear-down (given that I currently drive it about 500 miles a year), I can spend the money I'm not spending on a new engine somewhere else.
Just my cents. Time and labor are expensive; Chevy engines are cheap. I wouldn't bother doing tear-down, or try to further diagnose various problems. The advantage for a SBC is supposed to be low maintenance. I would bite the bullet and get an exchange engine that is either new or freshly rebuilt by a reputable vendor so that I can put at least 5000 miles on it a year as opposed to 500.
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- #87
The issue is, this engine really RUNS fine. Leaks everywhere, but it idles smooth, doesn't smoke badly (just a bit under heavy revs) - no real FUNCTIONAL issues aside from the carb, which is another story. Compression is great too...
I can reseal/replace what needs replacing for about $500. $800 if I go overboard basically resealing/replacing everything - just not messing with the bottom end. My own time isn't technically free, but if I didn't want to invest labor, I probably shouldn't have bought a 40 year old frankentruck
. As much as I'd love a brand new, worry free engine, a base 350 long block would set me back $1600 (double). Plus I'd also need all of the stuff that doesn't transfer over from the 283 - Harmonic balancer, flywheel, water pump, pulleys, brackets, etc. So at that point, I'm well into the $2000 range.
I guess what it boils down to is - given what I know about this engine, is spending $500-$800 on it really just throwing good money after bad? Because that $1200+ I didn't spend on the new engine could fix a lot of other problems on this truck!
In a perfect world - what I would like to do is reseal this engine, replace what needs replacing, and run it while I tackle the other projects (bodywork, tires, etc.) which, at the rate I'm going, will probably be several years. Then, maybe once the truck is in otherwise top-shape, drop in a crate 350. That said, this is my first project vehicle so I'm learning as I go. If the general consensus among the "pros" here is that I'm wasting my money, I guess I'll just keep saving my pennies for a new engine.
It depends.... on kind of a lot. What do you want with the rig and what are future plans?
If there's no desire for offroad and you drive it minimally, then you can reseal it (hell you can probably even do a light hone, rings, and bearings for pretty damn cheap) and put money elsewhere!
However, on the flip side... if you want it to be a little more reliable and want to off road it - EFI is something to seriously consider. A nice simple way to accomplish this while getting the accessory parts you need - is to find a late 80's early 90's truck or suburban that has transmission problems, rusty, accident, or isn't used - spend $1,000 or so to get it and use what you can. Scrap what you can't sell, and you'll find yourself in a position where the engine and EFI was significantly less than you anticipated.
If there's no desire for offroad and you drive it minimally, then you can reseal it (hell you can probably even do a light hone, rings, and bearings for pretty damn cheap) and put money elsewhere!
However, on the flip side... if you want it to be a little more reliable and want to off road it - EFI is something to seriously consider. A nice simple way to accomplish this while getting the accessory parts you need - is to find a late 80's early 90's truck or suburban that has transmission problems, rusty, accident, or isn't used - spend $1,000 or so to get it and use what you can. Scrap what you can't sell, and you'll find yourself in a position where the engine and EFI was significantly less than you anticipated.
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- #89
I don't really see a lot of heavy off-road in this truck's future (rock crawling, etc.). I may take it down some fire road and the like, but I'd say it will easily be 90/10 road driven. Would love to have it be reliable enough to feel comfortable taking it an hour or two from home, but anything beyond that and fuel costs become pretty insane! It's mostly just a toy - something I can learn on, etc.
Right now I think I'm leaning toward resealing this, and driving it til it blows up. Compression is good, leakage is mediocre, but not awful and it runs like a top and makes decent power. I think it at least warrants tearing it and checking for major issues before calling it. When the day comes that I start having some serious issues with the engine, I'll cross the "what engine to buy next" road.
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its a new design different than the ones i have but it sure is nice i bought mine in 1977 and still have the catalog .geuss i should have checked before i spoke thanks for the update ,the old ones were similar but used the old style cast iron truck bellhousing and the whole bottom was open but had a cover .the new one seems to be a better design but i like the acces so i will keep mine just in case .again thanks for the info and hope i didnt steer anyone wrong
- Thread starter
- #91
Thanks for the info! I'm not sure what vintage this particular bellhousing is. I would prefer an inspection cover as well, but Jim made me an offer I couldn't refuse!
The issue is, this engine really RUNS fine. Leaks everywhere, but it idles smooth, doesn't smoke badly (just a bit under heavy revs) - no real FUNCTIONAL issues aside from the carb, which is another story. Compression is great too...
I can reseal/replace what needs replacing for about $500. $800 if I go overboard basically resealing/replacing everything - just not messing with the bottom end. My own time isn't technically free, but if I didn't want to invest labor, I probably shouldn't have bought a 40 year old frankentruck
As much as I'd love a brand new, worry free engine, a base 350 long block would set me back $1600 (double). Plus I'd also need all of the stuff that doesn't transfer over from the 283 - Harmonic balancer, flywheel, water pump, pulleys, brackets, etc. So at that point, I'm well into the $2000 range.
I guess what it boils down to is - given what I know about this engine, is spending $500-$800 on it really just throwing good money after bad? Because that $1200+ I didn't spend on the new engine could fix a lot of other problems on this truck!
In a perfect world - what I would like to do is reseal this engine, replace what needs replacing, and run it while I tackle the other projects (bodywork, tires, etc.) which, at the rate I'm going, will probably be several years. Then, maybe once the truck is in otherwise top-shape, drop in a crate 350. That said, this is my first project vehicle so I'm learning as I go. If the general consensus among the "pros" here is that I'm wasting my money, I guess I'll just keep saving my pennies for a new engine.
If I compare $500 to seal the engine vs. $2000 to get a new crate engine, to me it's no contest. $2000 crate engine wins hands down. The car will get a new lease on life with a minimum of 100K trouble free miles from the engine. It will in fact free you up to work on other projects sooner than later. The way I look at it, restoring an old Land Cruiser is a high value activity; rebuilding a Chevy 350 is a commodity activity, which should be outsourced because you get the bang for the buck.
I bought one just like that in 1996. It has worked very well for me since then. I'd buy a decent quality rebuild kit and reseal it... Or buy a good runner, part it out, and swap in the motor.
Mine cost me about $300 including all accesories... Even Saginaw box and pump that I used in a Nova I had. That was 19 years ago and she's still running strong.
Mine cost me about $300 including all accesories... Even Saginaw box and pump that I used in a Nova I had. That was 19 years ago and she's still running strong.
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- #94
@bikersmurf - Do you mean you bought an engine just like my current one, or a brand new crate engine like @Racer65 just mentioned? When you say rebuild kit, do you mean bearings, etc. as well or just a seal kit?
Really, the main reasons I'm bucking common wisdom here and leaning toward running the 283 are:
1. Admitted impatience. I don't want to wait another year to replace the clutch, move the shifter, install a front driveshaft, and make this truck reliably drivable.
2. I know my budget (or lackluster trickle of money) that I can set aside for this truck. I have thousands in body and paint coming up, not to mention tires, and all the stuff I actually WANT to do to the truck. I can spend less on the engine NOW, and probably have a decent runner. That way, I can at least drive the damn thing for the several years it will take me to save up the cash for paint and body.
3. My compression numbers are good. The leakdown test is really the ONLY thing pointing to this engine being tired - and it was performed cold. I'm pretty confident I was at TDC but if I had a valve cracked slightly these numbers could be off significantly. I'm confident in my ability to perform a compression test. However, a leak down test was a new adventure. I may run the truck up to operating temperature and re-run the test on the really bad cylinders.
The long and short of it is, I won't buy A THING for this engine until it's out of the truck and stripped down. If there's anything noticeably and catastrophically "bad" about it, at that point I won't have a choice. I feel like that's pretty unlikely though. It has to come out either way, so it's a few extra bolts worth of work to get the covers off it and inspect it further.
By one just like that I meant the Conversion Housing from Downey.
I've been told that a gasket kit for a rebuild is often cheaper than buying a couple of gaskets on their own. A quick Google search netted a Felt-Pro Gasket set for your 283 for $40... evwen if there was shipping on top of that it'd seal up your motor for next to nothing.
I bought a Sept/69 350 to get mine on the road... by now, I've got about $600 into it in total after 19 years of running it, and it's still going strong.
One advantage to the 283 is that it's a smaller displacement and should get better fuel economy... a couple of downsides are: their heads wern't designed for unleaded fuel and it won't produce the Hp of a larger motor (not that I'd care).
I've been told that a gasket kit for a rebuild is often cheaper than buying a couple of gaskets on their own. A quick Google search netted a Felt-Pro Gasket set for your 283 for $40... evwen if there was shipping on top of that it'd seal up your motor for next to nothing.
I bought a Sept/69 350 to get mine on the road... by now, I've got about $600 into it in total after 19 years of running it, and it's still going strong.
One advantage to the 283 is that it's a smaller displacement and should get better fuel economy... a couple of downsides are: their heads wern't designed for unleaded fuel and it won't produce the Hp of a larger motor (not that I'd care).
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- #96
Yeah - that's the plan. Enough of the gaskets leak currently that I pretty much need a gasket kit. The reseal is cheap - there's just also some other stuff that should be replaced that will add to the cost - Harmonic balancer, pulleys, exhaust manifolds, etc.
The good news is that all of this will be transferable to another engine down the road if this 283 screws the pooch.
As for the 283 - yeah, the major issues I've run into on the 283 are mounting accessories. No mounting bosses on the head means you rely an awful lot on intake and water pump bolts. Not a big deal, you just have to get creative sometimes. Like you, I really couldn't care too much about power. The 283, as it currently sits, still keeps up with traffic better than the 2F's I've driven.
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- #97
Ok guys,
I've been fooling with it a bit lately (dropped on a new Q-jet) and noticed something else:
I don't HEAR a tap/knock currently anywhere in the engine. There's an exhaust leak that makes quite a bit of noise in the engine bay, and well as a clutch issue (or maybe transmission bearing) that makes a lot of noise too.
HOWEVER,
If I rest my hand on the driver's side valve cover while the engine is running, I can FEEL (again, not hear) a slight tapping from the vicinity of cylinder 1 or 3. Again, nothing audible...but definitely a sharp tap that seems to change with RPM.
I'm thinking I may just have a valve out of adjustment - perhaps making slight contact with the valve cover? I haven't pulled the cover yet to check for contact marks. Anyone have any other ideas? I was considering maybe a bad lifter, but I feel like that would make some noise...
I've been fooling with it a bit lately (dropped on a new Q-jet) and noticed something else:
I don't HEAR a tap/knock currently anywhere in the engine. There's an exhaust leak that makes quite a bit of noise in the engine bay, and well as a clutch issue (or maybe transmission bearing) that makes a lot of noise too.
HOWEVER,
If I rest my hand on the driver's side valve cover while the engine is running, I can FEEL (again, not hear) a slight tapping from the vicinity of cylinder 1 or 3. Again, nothing audible...but definitely a sharp tap that seems to change with RPM.
I'm thinking I may just have a valve out of adjustment - perhaps making slight contact with the valve cover? I haven't pulled the cover yet to check for contact marks. Anyone have any other ideas? I was considering maybe a bad lifter, but I feel like that would make some noise...
Cdaniel
Undocumented Mechanic-I Am Not CDAN
I think you would surely hear a lifter. Or loose rocker. And I'm pretty sure there is plenty of clearance under the cover that something loose enough to touch would be making a lot of racket. Whatever your feeling could be transmitted from anywhere nearby.
Cdaniel
Undocumented Mechanic-I Am Not CDAN
Not too hard to pull the covers and inspect though. Be prepared to find out more than you want to know though. Found hammered exhaust valves in my smooth and quiet 383
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- #100
Yeah, when the engine gets pulled I'm obviously going to tear it down pretty far before I decide what exactly I'm going to do with it.
I'm also wondering what might be transmitting a knock of that sort - plenty of belts and pulleys up there I suppose
I'm also wondering what might be transmitting a knock of that sort - plenty of belts and pulleys up there I suppose
