Anyone tried Xenopro LED headlights?

[gaijin]

Maybe someone else here knows how to put the difference in % increase, I'm rusty on this but I don't think it's a linear scale.

For what you are comparing, amount of luminance at a fixed distance, it is indeed linear - the LED's are approx. 3.3 times brighter than the halogens.

Since we both have the same light meter, it would be great if you could measure light output at the surface of the headlight housing and compare it to what I measured in this thread: HIR1 High Beam Bulbs - Which Are the Brightest? That would tell us if the LED's are indeed brighter than "bright" halogens, or just brighter than the older halogens you had installed.

Sound interesting, Mr. fellow Engineer?

 

[Reckless]

Night 2 report:
I feel the halogen bulbs are actually brighter at dusk. The white light is not visible at all for approximately 20 minutes after sun goes down.

I'm actually glad I didn't buy the high beams as the low beams aren't that intense. Makes my eyes slightly strain to see all the way ahead. I am definitively able to see much farther ahead, almost double but the halogens had better intensity throughout even though I disliked the yellow color. The IPF bulb does have a much wider output albeit with varying intensities.

I do have mixed feelings on the bulb. Overall I think its better than stock 2009 halogen but comes with a few trade offs.

 

[KLF]

For what you are comparing, amount of luminance at a fixed distance, it is indeed linear - the LED's are approx. 3.3 times brighter than the halogens.

OK, it's just been too long since I've messed with this stuff. Thanks.

Since we both have the same light meter, it would be great if you could measure light output at the surface of the headlight housing and compare it to what I measured in this thread: HIR1 High Beam Bulbs - Which Are the Brightest?

I can't tell exactly from the photo in that linked thread, plus the difference between '11 (mine) and '13 (yours) headlights, but I think you are talking about the little bump on the inside of the lens at the center (centroid?) of the light beam. I measure approx. 120,000 lux, this is with the engine running this time.

 

[gaijin]

I can't tell exactly from the photo in that linked thread, plus the difference between '11 (mine) and '13 (yours) headlights, but I think you are talking about the little bump on the inside of the lens at the center (centroid?) of the light beam. I measure approx. 120,000 lux, this is with the engine running this time.

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Your LED's at 120,000 lux compare to the 9005 (High Beam) halogens I measured as follows:

Sylvania Silverstar Ultra 9005 bulb:

168,800 LUX

HIR1 bulb from HIRHeadlights.com:

181,300 LUX (7.4% brighter than the Sylvania bulb)

HIR1/9011 bulb from Amazon.com:

>200,000 LUX (>18.5% brighter than the Sylvania bulb)

The upper measurement limit of my Light Meter is 200,000 LUX.

Color temperature of all three bulbs was subjectively the same - very slight yellow/brown tint compared to the HID low beam light.

I don't know what a low beam halogen would measure, but even the Sylvania Silverstar Ultra halogen at 168,800 lux was 40% brighter than your LED's. The HIR1/9011 bulb was more than 67% brighter than the LED bulb.

I think that the IPF LED bulbs for Low Beam and High Beam applications are both rated at 3600 Lumens. If that is the case, what I can say is that for the High Beam (9005) application, halogen is probably the better choice. And based on my previous testing the best halogen for the High Beam application would be the HIR1/9011 bulb from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...GjLzOYECA&slotNum=3&ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=ihco-20).

Gotta love basing decisions on real data

HTH

 

[Willy beamin]

I don't believe you. I spent to much on these to ponder such statistics. Go away engineers let the believers believe.

 

[Markuson]

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Your LED's at 120,000 lux compare to the 9005 (High Beam) halogens I measured as follows:

Sylvania Silverstar Ultra 9005 bulb:

168,800 LUX

HIR1 bulb from HIRHeadlights.com:

181,300 LUX (7.4% brighter than the Sylvania bulb)

HIR1/9011 bulb from Amazon.com:

>200,000 LUX (>18.5% brighter than the Sylvania bulb)

The upper measurement limit of my Light Meter is 200,000 LUX.

Color temperature of all three bulbs was subjectively the same - very slight yellow/brown tint compared to the HID low beam light.

I don't know what a low beam halogen would measure, but even the Sylvania Silverstar Ultra halogen at 168,800 lux was 40% brighter than your LED's. The HIR1/9011 bulb was more than 67% brighter than the LED bulb.

I think that the IPF LED bulbs for Low Beam and High Beam applications are both rated at 3600 Lumens. If that is the case, what I can say is that for the High Beam (9005) application, halogen is probably the better choice. And based on my previous testing the best halogen for the High Beam application would be the HIR1/9011 bulb from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...GjLzOYECA&slotNum=3&ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=ihco-20).

Gotta love basing decisions on real data

HTH

Holding your meter against the headlight housing ignores about 95% of the rest of the light as cast from the rest of the reflector lens and onto the landscape/road. Measuring a half-inch spot a few inches from the plastic cover is not going to indicate the degree to which the scene is illuminated effectively. Judgements of usable light need to consider the entire field of vision and swath of light as actually cast on the full view, rather than one bright point cast an inch away. You are measuring only that tiny portion, without regard to scene illumination.

It's about like sticking a meter in front of a laser beam...and judging its effectiveness as a headlight based on that tiny bright point. Lasers are bright, no doubt...but we all know they'd make crappy headlights.

Meanwhile...my neighborhood is lit up with these compared to originals. It ain't even close.

 

[KLF]

Umm... I think you missed the point of the meter exercise. The meter measures light INTENSITY, but you are talking about volume of light output.

Think of the headlight like a firehose, spraying water. The meter measures the pressure of the water as it comes out of the nozzle, that's all, and at only one small spot. In order to determine volume of coverage, you need a flowmeter, measuring something like gallons per minute.

My intent was to remove all the variables from the system and just measure the light pressure change, before and after, and at the same exact point and distance from the lens.

 

[Markuson]

Ya... Maybe (in my head) its sort of like horse power. -There's what the engine is doing (compare with intensity an inch away)...but then there's how much of that power is actually felt at the wheels (volume and total illumination of the full scene detected by the driver's eyes). Real world results will be HP at the wheels rather than the engine. I'm just wondering if there's something similar going on here.

I wonder if our eyes pick up various temperatures differently...? I dunno. I am just trying to square these tests with what I'm actually seeing at night.

But anyway...I Should probably just go back to bed…

 

[KLF]

Ya... Maybe (in my head) its sort of like horse power. -There's what the engine is doing (compare with intensity an inch away)...but then there's how much of that power is actually felt at the wheels (volume and total illumination of the full scene detected by the driver's eyes). Real world results will be HP at the wheels rather than the engine. I'm just wondering if there's something similar going on here.

Now you're talking about losses in power transmission, which is a very different topic.

 

[Markuson]

Now you're talking about losses in power transmission, which is a very different topic.

Right. It's an imperfect comparison. But aren't we most interested in how well the combination of "bulb" + reflector actually illuminates the scene as detected by our eyes? It seems like the most indicative measurement would be light as measured at distance within the scene vs. at the source. Does that make sense?

 

[KLF]

Yup, it does. This is a discussion for a eye doc. I wish @yooper was still around

 

[trapperbay]

I remember reading an article many years ago when HID were new. The true light experts preferred lights that illuminated objects that appear in the field of vision over just illuminating the road. The same reason experts say not to use fog lights unless it's foggy.... because the eye is drawn to the illumination which is immediately in front of the vehicle rather than down the road.

I replaced my high beams with LED bulbs and noticed that they do a great job of flooding the area with light but don't have nearly the throw of halogens and definitely not as good as HID.

And Markuson, my understanding is that the temperature does play a part in how/what we see. The higher temperature of the bulb the less "real" the light renders the objects. That causes our brain to take more time to process over a more natural light 3500k that we are accustomed to. I assume that's why most mfgs choose lights closer to 3500-4000 although that seems to be changing.

 

[Markuson]

In case anyone is still thinking about this... ( ), this graphic illustrates what I've been attempting (and failing) to communicate about measuring the source...vs. what we can actually see as a result of various light source/reflector combinations.

Lumens emitted at the source (Luminous Flux above) may...OR MAY NOT indicate how well a scene is lit/made visible. Source comparisons that don't take into account well-distributed Illuminance and finally Luminance could render a misleading verdict about what offers the best vision at night.

A bulb or LED might have tremendous luminous flux (lumens) at the small source, but it may or may not translate to useful illuminance off of objects that we detect/see as luminance, as effects of the interaction with reflectors and spread translate. If it doesn't align with the reflectors, or take full advantage of them, it's bright output may be wasted.

Here's the article it came from in case anyone wants to geek out...
Not about headlights specifically, but it points to some of what I was referring to in my lame, laymen's language.
Measuring Light Levels | Sustainability Workshop

 

[NC237]

Well they arrived today. I figured out why they took so long too. The packing sheet says back ordered on it. Also the packing sheet indicates a drop ship from ARB. So Morris doesn't actually stock these things. Why Morris wouldn't communicate the back order part on the occasions that I called is beyond me. Likely they didn't know, being a middle man. Or they didn't want to risk having the order canceled. Either way... not good. Stay tuned I will be posting comparison pics of the BeamTech and IPF.

Same here - they contacted me relativity right away (3 days) about verifying payment. They said verification happens with all first time orders. But that's not entirely true based on Markuson's experience. I asked them about tracking and they said they would place the order and e-mail later that day. I waited to the end of the week and called them again - they said they would contact the warehouse and e-mail me tracking.
Waited another week - nada. I called yesterday and they said it should have shipped and they would get me tracking.

From what people are saying they do show up eventually... but there isn't any communication. I'm guessing it's because they order direct from a distributor and then they lose all visibility of it. And each time anyone calls they turn around and call the distributor.

I won't be ordering from Morris again... But hopefully my order shows up next week.

 

[NC237]

Here's the comparison.

BeamTech LED 9005 - claimed 4000 lumens - $40/pair
+Price
+Brightness
+Smaller size
-Beam pattern

IPF 9005/HB3 - claimed 3600 lumens - $100-185/pair
+Brightness
+Beam pattern
+Quiet fans
-Price

The end result is the IPFs have a better engineered beam pattern that is more focused and there is a defined cutoff. This is what one wants in a headlight design. However, as a driver I like a wider throw because you can see more. However, other drivers on the road may not like it. Also light in places that I shouldn't be looking isn't a good thing either. The IPFs are better focused with a better cutoff. However, the BeamTech lights up more of the road and everything around it. I like that, but I know it's not a good design. In the end I will run with the IPFs because I know the design is better. But mainly because they are more expensive and returning them to Morris is surely going to be a fiasco. Knowing what I know now - Are the IPFs worth the price? No. Not at $175 a pair. Are they for $105 (via Amazon Japan)? YES they are.

I do have the BeamTechs in as fogs. For now I plan to leave them that way unless this thread turns out data which convinces me to switch back to halogens. Interesting stuff guys, keep it up. But for sure no IPFs as fogs due to the price vs performance difference.

Here's some comparison pics.

Side by side - size comparison.
IPF is much larger.

Stock low beam HID - good cutoff thanks to a shutter in the stock housing.

Beam comparison. BeamTech on the left, IPF on the right.
IPF has a much more focused beam with a more defined cut off.

Throw comparison.
Left pic: BeamTech on the left, IPF on the right.
More throw upwards on the BeamTech.
Right pic: Both IPFs installed as high beams.

Beam comparison.
Left pic: BeamTech on the left, IPF on the right.
More light scattered upwards and less definition/cutoff on the BeamTech.
Right pic: Both IPFs installed as high beams.
Very defined, good cutoff.

 

[tirewater]

Thanks NC237. I await a pair of IPF low beams from Japan.

 

[Willy beamin]

@NC237 thanks for the visuals.

 

[NC237]

I just put them in a 2015 - which should be the same as a 2013.
I posted visuals a few posts up from this one.

Has anybody put these in a 2013?

 

[TexAZ]

Got my bulbs from Amazon Japan tonight! Spent a couple minutes cleaning up the plastic covers, swapped bulbs and waited for the sun to go down.

Holy white light batman....i love these things. Tried the high beams and love that the lows stay on.

Wish I had these in Moab!!!! Definitely would have saved a couple hours of missed trail markers.
Best 122$ I've put into this truck.

 

[Markuson]

I just put them in a 2015 - which should be the same as a 2013.
I posted visuals a few posts up from this one.

My 2008 reflectors are very different.

Got my bulbs from Amazon Japan tonight! Spent a couple minutes cleaning up the plastic covers, swapped bulbs and waited for the sun to go down.

Holy white light batman....i love these things. Tried the high beams and love that the lows stay on.

Wish I had these in Moab!!!! Definitely would have saved a couple hours of missed trail markers.
Best 122$ I've put into this truck.

There ya go!
Matches what I saw too...
I find it most obvious with land-based contours & barriers.
Massive improvement for nightmares in Moab!