anyone out there had a diesel swap done in their 200?

[bloc]

Find me a person that hauls cars long distances with a gasoline engine. While the increased maintenance is definitely an issue on modern diesels, people/organizations that regularly use all of that power still opt for the diesel option when there is one despite the significantly increased cost. It pays for itself in fuel economy and especially longevity.

Btw, I seem to recall that the most popular engine for the F-150 is the 2.7l turbo V6.

I know three people that had those trucks and got rid of them due to extensive problems.

Even if modern turbo engines are better, you are still asking a relatively small displacement engine to deal with the thermal load of something previously much larger. Also, these things mostly rely on direct injection to allow the manifold pressures they need to produce the power they do. I have no doubt Toyota will do extensive testing, but port injection is an extremely well developed technology and part of why the 2UZ and 3UR were so reliable in the first place... they weren't ground-breaking. Just older technology perfected.

 

[TeCKis300]

Find me a person that hauls cars long distances with a gasoline engine. While the increased maintenance is definitely an issue on modern diesels, people/organizations that regularly use all of that power still opt for the diesel option when there is one despite the significantly increased cost. It pays for itself in fuel economy and especially longevity.

I know three people that had those trucks and got rid of them due to extensive problems.

Even if modern turbo engines are better, you are still asking a relatively small displacement engine to deal with the thermal load of something previously much larger. Also, these things mostly rely on direct injection to allow the manifold pressures they need to produce the power they do. I have no doubt Toyota will do extensive testing, but port injection is an extremely well developed technology and part of why the 2UZ and 3UR were so reliable in the first place... they weren't ground-breaking. Just older technology perfected.

For a person that hauls long distances, agreed. That's the one use case where diesel absolutely shines.

Longevity, at least in the less than 1-ton space is questionable. There's studies and data for fleet managers, which shows that the cost and longevity advantage doesn't quite pencil out for diesel in the long run. With generally more down time and higher repair costs.

As a personal vehicle, the long haul efficiency advantage is not going to play out to any sort of costs savings. But then again, we're not in this hobby for costs savings right?

Funny that you bring up fuel injection. This is one of the achilles heals of modern diesels, with their super high pressure direct injection and sensitivity to contaminants.

Gas vs. Diesel: The Bad Investment Only Fleet Managers Know About

 

[M1911]

I know three people that had those trucks and got rid of them due to extensive problems.

A friend of mine has an F-150 with the 2.7 and he loves it. His fuel economy is far better than mine (though admittedly he doesn’t drive in a lot of stop and go traffic). I know the first year EcoBoost engines had issues, but my impression is that those have been largely sorted out.

What is interesting to me is how strongly you criticize turbocharged, direct-injected gasoline engines while extolling turbocharged, direct-injection diesel engines. If turbochargers are by there very nature unreliable, then diesel engines must also be unreliable.

Also, the direct injection systems on diesel engines run at a much higher pressure than on gas engines.

 

[bloc]

You guys are missing my point. I can’t see smaller displacement direct injection gasoline engines being as reliable as something like the 3UR, and diesels being turbo charged and direct injection is comparing apples to oranges. Things like larger displacement, iron blocks, and fuel that lubricates the injection pump help them be more reliable. Many of the issues with diesels come from the emissions and exhaust after-treatment systems.. for the most part a burden that doesn’t apply to gasoline engines.

@M1911 point about modern Diesel engines being very different than their older counterparts applies directly to these modern GDI engines. I never said turbos by themselves are unreliable.. just that slapping them onto a small engine and making big engine power in a high-stress use case like towing or a heavy vehicle won’t be as reliable long-term as a NA engine. And let’s keep in mind what platform we are talking about here. Toyota’s most thoroughly engineered vehicle, one designed to go twice as far as “normal” toyotas. They have a history of being conservative on things like power plants on landcruisers.

Many of the diesel fuel injection issues are with common rail systems using the Bosch CP4 series of pumps for which American diesel barely meets their lubricity standards. Engines using CP3 pumps rarely have injection system problems, let alone engines with CP4 using european diesel with significantly higher lubricity.

My friends with the eco boost problems were first gen if I remember correctly. I’d be happy if they sorted out those problems.. yet I’d still wonder if the NA v8 is considered a better choice in F-150s that are going to do extensive towing.

 

[TeCKis300]

I know the first year EcoBoost engines had issues, but my impression is that those have been largely sorted out.

There's some anecdotal noise that the latest high output variant of the EB (raptor, navigator) isn't doing so hot in the reliability arena. I would chalk these issues to it being a Ford.

@bloc, I don't disagree with you. The 3UZ in particular has proven incredibly robust. So much that I don't fault it for being thirsty.

As for more highly stressed engines, I'm not particularly concerned as I trust Toyota to validate its solution to Toyota standards. Highly stressed is relative. There's always technical solutions with engineering or materials to improve durability such that there's sufficient margin.

Where I am a bit more concerned is serviceability by the end user. The 3UZ is more complicated even as an NA motor, than motors of yore. The next generation out will be more complicated still. It's going to be hard to fix anything outside of swapping modules in the future.

 

[cjmcb]

I think there are also issues with US EPA caring more about NOX values and the rest of the world more focussed on CO2. Also US spec diesel is some of the most “contaminated/ dirty” diesel in the developed world with the highest sulphur PPM content.

Im in the UK and have an Audi 3.0 bi-TDi in my A6 Avant and whilst we can’t compare the cars ability, it’s a 320hp and 480lb/ft diesel that will do 40 US MPG on the highway with full time Quattro. If only we could swap one of these into a LC.......

 

[4wheelgreg]

I had a buddy do a Cummins 4bt still on going project , next time I’m at his shop I will snap a few pictures . I’m a diesel junkie so I would do a diesel swap but the 5.7 last forever and not cost effective as others pointed out .

 

[rusty87]

I had a buddy do a Cummins 4bt still on going project , next time I’m at his shop I will snap a few pictures . I’m a diesel junkie so I would do a diesel swap but the 5.7 last forever and not cost effective as others pointed out .

In a 200 series?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

In a 200 series?

x2

I can’t think of a worse powerplant for a 200






Having spent a great deal of time in the URJ200 and VDJ200, I’m not terrible upset we don’t get the 1VDFTV in the 200. I mean I would love to own one, but I’m more upset we don’t get a VDJ76.

 

[TimCFJ40]

ll on going project , next time I’m at his shop I will snap a few pictures . I’m a diesel junkie so I would do a diesel swap but the 5.7 last forever and not cost effective as others pointed out .

I have a 4BT in my FJ40, and I would not want to put one in my 200 series. The 4BT is a tractor motor, it's got a ton of torque but it's loud and rattly. In a vehicle the size of a 200 you'd have to do some work to get enough power, it'd be a slug in stockish form in a 6000lb truck.