Any caster correction needed for 2" lift? (1 Viewer)

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Are you running a DC DS? I’ve got the Landtank 2.5’s as well and Delta‘s rear panhard lift bracket. I now have a higher lift after swapping in some gently used Dobs 146-VT’s / 147-VT’s and my fronts are 23.75“ and 23.85”. I added the IMS shocks and the ride is super, I don’t have vibes but do have the occasional low growl if the throttle is feathered just right on a high speed downhill. Truck still drives really nice even though I might be a little caster light; would love to solve the growl though. Then I’d be done, swear.
Yep. Once i knew my numbers were good I had Tom Woods build one for me.
 
So I got to thinking, is 2.5* of castor correction not the same whether you use a bushing or a plate?
Don’t they both accomplish the same goal?
Why is one better than the other?


I got to know……

devo
 
Possibly the same in terms of the resulting caster but even the different plates aren't all the same in some subtle and likely important ways. Some plates may net desired caster without as many issues with tie-rod to radius arm clearance for example. The bushings that offer caster correction are different from OE bushing in a number of ways including the caster bushings being less durable and firmer in terms of flex and ride quality. There seems to be some variety of experience from one 80 to another based on overall setup, use, etc. for bushings and plates as well.
 
Bushings and plates are bandaid’s. Definitely stay away from correction bushings if you plan to to drive off road and twist the suspension a good deal. The plates create the problem of tie rod to leading arm interference.

I ground down my original arms to run Slee castor plates when I was new to the 80 and Slee arms were the only choice and seemed very expensive at the time when I was trying to save money. Building an 80 and saving money are two contradicting ideas. I’ve learned that.

Long story short; all that crap is hack work and bandaid patches. The most correct way to get castor back to spec post lift is to use drop brackets at the frame end of the arms. The next most correct, and by far the most popular, solution is arms designed for the lift on the truck.

I got tired of dealing with tie rod contact even though I ground the arm practically all the way through the top of the arm and into the web of the I beam so I bought Delta arms. Wish I had done it sooner.

In the end, castor plates were a waste of time and money.
 
One other consideration for the delta arms.
If you’re a shade tree mechanic, without a welder or a 20,000# press at your disposal, delta arms are pretty much the only wrench off / wrench on option.

In “retro spec”, despite the $$$, and all other considered, for my rig….they were absolutely my best option.

Been very happy with the Dobi 1.75 IMS and Delta arms. Doesn’t feel like overkill, just feels like the right solution.
 
Bushings and plates are bandaid’s. Definitely stay away from correction bushings if you plan to to drive off road and twist the suspension a good deal. The plates create the problem of tie rod to leading arm interference.

I ground down my original arms to run Slee castor plates when I was new to the 80 and Slee arms were the only choice and seemed very expensive at the time when I was trying to save money. Building an 80 and saving money are two contradicting ideas. I’ve learned that.

Long story short; all that crap is hack work and bandaid patches. The most correct way to get castor back to spec post lift is to use drop brackets at the frame end of the arms. The next most correct, and by far the most popular, solution is arms designed for the lift on the truck.

I got tired of dealing with tie rod contact even though I ground the arm practically all the way through the top of the arm and into the web of the I beam so I bought Delta arms. Wish I had done it sooner.

In the end, castor plates were a waste of time and money.
When I first got my 80 I posted on the 80 series FB page about my new purchase. Someone gave me a heads up that this hobby/disease would be very expensive and every time I tear apart the truck a little bit more and find a new thing I need to do that comment and many other comments come to mind.

Theres no shortcuts when it comes to doing things right, and after my baseline and then the lift I'm going to have to purchase the Delta arms.

How much of a difference in terms of everyday vs off road driving have you noticed?
 
When I first got my 80 I posted on the 80 series FB page about my new purchase. Someone gave me a heads up that this hobby/disease would be very expensive and every time I tear apart the truck a little bit more and find a new thing I need to do that comment and many other comments come to mind.

Theres no shortcuts when it comes to doing things right, and after my baseline and then the lift I'm going to have to purchase the Delta arms.

How much of a difference in terms of everyday vs off road driving have you noticed?
Night and day difference. With castor plates designed for a 4” lift I had .5 degrees positive castor with about 4.5” of lift and still had the tie rod issue plus darty steering.

Proper arms not only correct castor but they solve the tie rod contact issue, move the axle forward back to where it was pre lift, will automatically give you new bushings if you order them loaded with, and, if your buy the narrower delta arms, you get a little more flex.

Remember to get the Delta rear track bar axle end bracket as well. I built my own and the combination of that and the proper arms made my rig feel much more stable. No more white knuckles.
 
Following up on the topic of only a 2" lift and correcting caster.

I haven't installed my new OME +2" springs yet. I am waiting on a rear bumper and I might be too light for the OME 2863 / constant load springs without it. So, I can't take any measurements to be clear how much correction I will need. I did order the OME bushings implusively, trying to take advantage of a sale.

Given that the @Delta VS could be a number of months out for a 2" lift version of new arms, does it make any sense to spend $150-200 for a HF press to try out the bushings? or would @landtank plates be a better use of the money for my particular setup and possibly a good long term plan?

I imagine I will need a press eventually for other work as it comes up but not sure it's worth the time/effort to bother with the OME bushings after doing a lot of reading here.
 
We actually have 2” arms in stock if you want to go that way

That's great to hear. Is there any risk of screwing up the decision on the specific arms that would be needed? (without having everything else installed and getting an alignment report to tell me exactly how much correction is needed)

If I understand correctly, it's just a matter of the actual front-end weight vs. springs purchased that could impact the effective lift height. My setup in the front is: ARB bumper, 12k winch, 2nd battery, and carrying part of the weight for my aluminum roof rack.
 
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I don’t know of anyone running OME springs of any variety that only nets a true 2” lift aside from their stock height spec.

I’m running their mediums on a stock body 1997 80 and I’m still at 2.25” which is in the lower range. Most folks end up at 2.5”+ ez laden with aftermarket goodies.

I have the Delta 3 arms iirc and I’m at an even 4 caster value both sides. Ymmv.
 
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Just wait until your lift is installed and get an alignment. Than you will know exactly what you need. If your rig is due for a knuckle service I would recommend trunnion bearings for your caster correction while your in there. If not I am sure you would be happy with the delta arms.
 
I don’t know of anyone running OME springs of any variety that only nets a true 2” lift aside from their stock height spec.

I’m running their mediums on a stock body 1997 80 and I’m still at 2.25” which is in the lower range. Most folks end up at 2.5”+ ez laden with aftermarket goodies.

I have the Delta 3 arms iirc and I’m at an even 4 caster value both sides. Ymmv.

Appreciate you letting me know that. Mine are all mediums as well.

Just wait until your lift is installed and get an alignment. Than you will know exactly what you need. If your rig is due for a knuckle service I would recommend trunnion bearings for your caster correction while your in there. If not I am sure you would be happy with the delta arms.

Yeah, knuckle rebuild is coming up next month for me. I hear you on patience. Thanks.
 
If your rig is due for a knuckle service I would recommend trunnion bearings for your caster correction while your in there. If not I am sure you would be happy with the delta arms.
don't hear much about trunnion bearings around here. i see Cruiser Outfitters offers 1deg and 3deg offset bearings for $125/$135. are you using them?

i'm in need of castor correction. have been planning on getting Delta 3L arms but need to get it to an alignment shop to get the numbers. i'm on Dobinson 166/167 springs (~22.5" hub to fender) and need a knuckle job. based on research i think i'm around -2deg castor
 
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Glad I found this thread and may I please jump in? I recently got a stock project 80 and it needs a lift. After a bunch of research I am convinced that if I don't put new radius arms on it the polar ice caps might melt. This is my first 80, and this caster correction thread has helped.

I have been grilling Dave at Delta, who has been very helpful. Since my 80 has the original suspension on it (clapped out at this point) and I will be starting from scratch, this complete kit is looking pretty good from a "buy once cry once" perspective. This truck is going to see about 80/20 road to trail, but will be crawling rocks at Windrock several times a year, maybe going out west, etc.

Does anyone have this kit (or have Icon springs and shocks) that can give me an assessment? Never had Icons before, only OME and Ironman.

Thank you,
 
That's great to hear. Is there any risk of screwing up the decision on the specific arms that would be needed? (without having everything else installed and getting an alignment report to tell me exactly how much correction is needed)

If I understand correctly, it's just a matter of the actual front-end weight vs. springs purchased that could impact the effective lift height. My setup in the front is: ARB bumper, 12k winch, 2nd battery, and carrying part of the weight for my aluminum roof rack.
risk is life...

as @leonard_nemoy says, just wait, that is your best bet. I always recommend people wait until their rig is set up the way it's going to be driven 95% of the time before addressing geometry.
 
risk is life...

as @leonard_nemoy says, just wait, that is your best bet. I always recommend people wait until their rig is set up the way it's going to be driven 95% of the time before addressing geometry.
I found your thread on taking measurements and looking at the data. Good stuff. Reminds me to figure out where I am today loaded up with a stock suspension.

 
I found your thread on taking measurements and looking at the data. Good stuff. Reminds me to figure out where I am today loaded up with a stock suspension.

that would be super helpful data to have in that sheet. lots of folks have viewed it over time.
 
that would be super helpful data to have in that sheet. lots of folks have viewed it over time.

I haven't seen many folks heading to the CAT scale to figure out their axle weights. Does the actual weight not matter as much as the effective height on the springs?
 

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