Another Power Steering Pump - 4 Month Program (3 Viewers)

[OwnerCS]

The 03+ has a slightly different piping layout that includes what I think is a secondary cooling coil. The pump is also slightly different looking from the 98-02 model. Maybe something to consider.

Of course it is probably just cheaper to add another transmission cooler radiator somewhere. Just would need to consider if the added pressure drop induced by the extra coil would affect the system performance. Might need to measure pressure on the stock system and see what the pressure drop is by adding a coil.

Any thoughts into the larger PS reservoir? I think earlier in the thread you or someone had linked to a welded one. Maybe the additional capacity would help?

That's good information about the 03+ models and the secondary cooling coil. I'm tempted to get one of the larger reservoirs that will vent to my ARB manifold at the top of the firewall. I have a new Hayden ATF cooler from another project.

I kept the Cardone pump to keep as a spare. I can warranty the OEM pump. Since I'm roading pumps on a regular basis, I'm thinking about trying the Cardone until I can figure this out.

Friends with 100 series go on the same trails as me and do not report this kind of problem. There is something different about this 100. Could the extra weight that it carries be the issue?

I see PS fluid overheating issues discussed with Rock Crawlers. Larger reservoirs and cooling seems to be a remedy.

 

[OwnerCS]

I am bored waiting for something to finish charging so I pulled up the diagram. This and the pump are the only differences:

View attachment 3117870


Since I believe the 03+ models can use the same steering rack it is likely that using their pump and extra cooler line should not be an issue. The pumps do mount with the same points.

That's great information. There had to have been an issue that brought about this change with the 03+ models.

 

[OwnerCS]

I have one of the roasted pumps from a past episode in the garage. I wonder if I should take it apart to see if there is some scoring inside that will explain this.

 

[awesomeissquid]

Cant hurt to take a look. They are pretty simple inside.

 

[OwnerCS]

The first of two videos with the whining sound.

 

[OwnerCS]

The pump is starting to rattle in this video. Also, the pump gets extremely hot to the touch fast when turning the wheel in the driveway.

 

[OwnerCS]

When I turn the pump shaft by hand, I can hear something rattling inside the pump like it is disintegrating (think shrapnel) from the inside. I'm glad that I shut this down when I did.

 

[2001LC]

A couple of things:

The 05 (IIRC was the yr) FSM, has a wrong torque spec for vane pumps 3 mounting bolts. Correct torque is 13ft-lbf. Very important to not over torque or vane may be damaged.

I only use M1 ATF fluid, even to flush. I never use a PS fluid even to flush. As with all fluids, we don't get out 100% during a first or even second flush/draining.

 

[abuck99]

Craig

I am perplexed that you have so many repeated issues with pump, it’s got to be something else restricting flow somewhere, cooking the fluid.

I dont recall from previous posts, but all rubber lines replaced from reservoir to HP and LP line connections ? Maybe something not right with that steering rack when it was manufactured?

You can check flow by cycling steering wheel lock to lock with engine off and front wheels off ground- remove return line to reservoir and with helper turning wheel you can check return line flow

 

[OwnerCS]

Craig

I am perplexed that you have so many repeated issues with pump, it’s got to be something else restricting flow somewhere, cooking the fluid.

I dont recall from previous posts, but all rubber lines replaced from reservoir to HP and LP line connections ? Maybe something not right with that steering rack when it was manufactured?

You can check flow by cycling steering wheel lock to lock with engine off and front wheels off ground- remove return line to reservoir and with helper turning wheel you can check return line flow

All new OEM lines with the last pump change. New OEM rack in early 2020. I will check the fluid flow with wheels off the ground. I can see the fluid moving around in the reservoir after installing a new pump. It looks like a little fountain inside the reservoir when running after installing a new pump.

 

[awesomeissquid]

Craig

I am perplexed that you have so many repeated issues with pump, it’s got to be something else restricting flow somewhere, cooking the fluid.

I dont recall from previous posts, but all rubber lines replaced from reservoir to HP and LP line connections ? Maybe something not right with that steering rack when it was manufactured?

You can check flow by cycling steering wheel lock to lock with engine off and front wheels off ground- remove return line to reservoir and with helper turning wheel you can check return line flow

I would agree. Likely something else in the system causing your issues which unfortunately points to the rack since the pump, all your other hoses, and the reservoir have been replaced a few times with the issue remaining. Since you said other 100s run the same trails without issue then yea the rack would be the last piece to try.

 

[OwnerCS]

I would agree. Likely something else in the system causing your issues which unfortunately points to the rack since the pump, all your other hoses, and the reservoir have been replaced a few times with the issue remaining. Since you said other 100s run the same trails without issue then yea the rack would be the last piece to try.

The only thing that I can think may be a factor is there are some bumpers on the LCAs that will stop the knuckle from turning too sharp. I looked at the old LCAs and there is a number of threads showing on those adjustment screws where the new LCAs came with those turned all the way in. If I cut sharp for a switchback, I can hear the pump whining from cavitation. That may be where the fluid is superheated and breaks down. I want to try running those adjusters out so a hard steer to the right or left doesn't hit that spot where the pump whines.

 

[2001LC]

The pump is starting to rattle in this video. Also, the pump gets extremely hot to the touch fast when turning the wheel in the driveway.

Sound like a dry (no fluid) pump. They sound similar, before air bleed from system (FSM method). But not near as bad.

 

[OwnerCS]

The replacement pump is in. Filled it with M1. Primed the pump and doing the bleed procedure now. I'll set the adjusters to stop the rack from making a full lock.

 

[2001LC]

Outline how you flush and how you bleed. Be detailed and I'll look for possible error in procedure!

My biggest concern with sound of your vane pump. Is vane pump run dry and now metal particles in the system/rack.

With old american cars vane pumps. Held at lock can be damaging to vane pump. But ours don't seem to care, nor does FSM warn it will. In fact it is part of FSM bleed process to hold at lock. First engine off, tires off the ground, then on the ground engine on lock to lock slowly.

I've seen many where knuckle stop(s) are missing, and full turns done until stops (lock). Never seem vane pump issue from this.

Whenever I drain the system to replace Vane, Rack or High or low pressure lines. I do have issues bleeding. The system has air bubble. I find turning steering fast (rather than slow as FSM recommends), while wheel off ground engine off works well.

 

[OwnerCS]

Much better with the replacement pump. It's moving a lot of fluid and foam now. The inside of the reservoir looks like a little fountain. Flushes are done by evacuating the reservoir with a pump, refill, start run turn, rinse and repeat until clear.

 

[OwnerCS]

Outline how you flush and how you bleed. Be detailed and I'll look for possible error in procedure!

My biggest concern with sound of your vane pump. Is vane pump run dry and now metal particles in the system/rack.

With old american cars vane pumps. Held at lock can be damaging to vane pump. But ours don't seem to care, nor does FSM warn it will. In fact it is part of FSM bleed process to hold at lock. First engine off, tires off the ground, then on the ground engine on lock to lock slowly.

I've seen many where knuckle stop(s) are missing, and full turns done until stops (lock). Never seem vane pump issue from this.

Whenever I drain the system to replace Vane, Rack or High or low pressure lines. I do have issues bleeding. The system has air bubble. I find turning steering fast (rather than slow as FSM recommends), while wheel off ground engine off works well.

I got a lot of air bubbles out by turning steering while the wheels were off the ground with the engine off. When it finally stopped bubbling, then I started the engine.

 

[OwnerCS]

Status Update:

Ordered an OEM warranty replacement for the pump ordered in November. The latest failure is from an April order that I will get replaced also. I want to refresh the bad OEM pumps that I have in stock.

The Cardone pump that I'm running at the moment is considered to be a spare. Since I couldn't return it when I bought it last spring, I'm throwing it into the mix. I can easily get it replaced. Luckily changing pumps isn't a big deal.

I'm thinking about how I will go about ordering an 03+ pump for that upgrade.

The only thing I'm noticing abnormal at this point is the amount of foam that is being stirred up at higher RPMs. I would think any air in the system would have been purged after 30 minutes of driving and turning wheels. I flushed the system with 2 quarts of M1 after installing the new pump.

I would like to measure some hose pressures and try to figure out how the rack could be causing the problem. I like a good technical challenge, but this one has me stumped.

 

[Bisho]

I wonder if there is a connection point where it is sucking in air (or dirt, or water, etc) and contaminating the system. I would think it would show up as a leak, though.

 

[OwnerCS]

I wonder if there is a connection point where it is sucking in air (or dirt, or water, etc) and contaminating the system. I would think it would show up as a leak, though.

Same here about sucking in air. No leaks or fluid loss. I'm 'racking my brain" over this one.