Another Power Steering Pump - 4 Month Program

[OwnerCS]

Something else going on- you might send that dirty fluid off to blackstone to confirm it’s dirt or something else.

When you flush system turning steering lock to lock, how is the fluid flowing in/out?

Is it possible that you’ve a restriction somewhere that’s cooking the fluid prematurely?

Fluid appears to be flowing without restriction. I can see it swirling around in the reservoir with a good flow.

When it starts one of these episodes, I can use the cap stick and get some drops on my fingers. Then when I rub my fingers, I can feel the grit from the dirt and my fingers show the dirt almost like mud.

I've been looking for something like a restriction that may be cooking the fluid.

I'm back to this mess again.

I change PS fluid after each off-road trip. This trip was at Toyota Jamboree and got into more dirt and dust than usual for an extended weekend.

 

[OwnerCS]

I will contact Blackstone so see how that works. The fluid looked like this last night after the change and cleaning. Too bad the pump is shot.

I may pull the rack boots to see if some mud accummulated in that area. While the boots look sealed and no leaking, I want to rule that out. The rack is a new OEM approximately 2 years old.

 

[Bisho]

There has to be something else going on. My original rack, hoses, and reservoir don’t get that dirty over 30k miles. I can’t imagine your new reservoir is letting that much dirt in. It seems to me most of the system is under pressure, which would by nature keep dirt out. Check your hose routing, because I think it is either getting cooked somewhere, or you have a hose disintegrating from the inside.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

There has to be something else going on. My original rack, hoses, and reservoir don’t get that dirty over 30k miles. I can’t imagine your new reservoir is letting that much dirt in. It seems to me most of the system is under pressure, which would by nature keep dirt out. Check your hose routing, because I think it is either getting cooked somewhere, or you have a hose disintegrating from the inside.

I agree Something is amiss and I don’t think it’s the pump, res, or cap.

 

[OwnerCS]

There has to be something else going on. My original rack, hoses, and reservoir don’t get that dirty over 30k miles. I can’t imagine your new reservoir is letting that much dirt in. It seems to me most of the system is under pressure, which would by nature keep dirt out. Check your hose routing, because I think it is either getting cooked somewhere, or you have a hose disintegrating from the inside.

Good point about a disintegrating hose. I remember the early days of the fuel-injected 240z when disintegrating fuel lines would clog injectors.

 

[tornadoalleycruiser]

Use transmission hose not fuel hose, see if that helps.

 

[abuck99]

Has this happened from the time you installed the rack 2 yrs ago or started happening past few months?

 

[OwnerCS]

Has this happened from the time you installed the rack 2 yrs ago or started happening past few months?

The first time it happened was on the trip back from Silverton last summer. It worked well in the mountains. It was a year old and had roughly 5,000 miles before the Silverton trip.

We barely made it home before the pump completely quit. After I figured out the reservoir was contaminated with a dirt-like particulate, I started frequent changes after off-road trips.

The pump was not new when I installed new hoses and the new rack two years ago. The only thing different was that I used a Sunsong kit.

The sequence is:

New Pump after Silverton
New Pump in February
New Pump needed now.

In a way, this is starting to look like a problem that Nissan Maximas have with aftermarket high pressure hoses. Though with them, the pumps will start screaming shortly after being connected to an after market hose. The problem was the afternarket hoses has a slightly smaller ID on the metal part and obstructed flow compared to OEM.

If this is similar to the Nissan problem, obstructing the flow may cause the fluid to overheat. This wouldn't be noticed to an average driver that doesn't put the system under a lot of stress when off-roading.

Is anyone else using the Sunsong high and low pressure hose kit? I ended up replacing the low pressure hose from the pump to the reservoir with a Continental.

 

[abuck99]

Interesting theory on the sun song lines. I have a hi/lo pressure line kit in storage as a back up. Might be a good idea to check line ID vs oem, but maybe the line is falling apart internally-

It’s pretty long since your initial line install so likely not relevant, but I’ve heard the plugs the lines ship with sometimes don’t get removed completely and can plug the hose.

 

[OwnerCS]

Interesting theory on the sun song lines. I have a hi/lo pressure line kit in storage as a back up. Might be a good idea to check line ID vs oem, but maybe the line is falling apart internally-

It’s pretty long since your initial line install so likely not relevant, but I’ve heard the plugs the lines ship with sometimes don’t get removed completely and can plug the hose.

I will greatly appreciate it if you can check your kit for ID. I wouldn't doubt the line falling apart internally. There is usually some gotcha that comes back later. I would like to send a sample to Blackstone to see what they make of the particulate. I will need to drive it some miles for the contamination to come back.

I remember removing some line plugs.

 

[abuck99]

@2001LC has used the Sunsong HP line if I recall-

Paul- notice any difference between line ID of sun song lines and OEM?

 

[Patassa]

My first pump lasted 345k miles, only changed because it was leaking and I would rather replace than rebuild. Interesting having this many repeat failures.

 

[OwnerCS]

I will contact Blackstone so see how that works. The fluid looked like this last night after the change and cleaning. Too bad the pump is shot.

I may pull the rack boots to see if some mud accummulated in that area. While the boots look sealed and no leaking, I want to rule that out. The rack is a new OEM approximately 2 years old.

View attachment 3008576

Well, it didn't take long to start turning dark again. I ordered a Blackstone Labs test kit.

Maybe it will continue to deteriorate quickly so I can get a meaningful analysis.

 

[OwnerCS]

Back to the Future

Back in 2010, I acquired a 91 Infiniti. Both PS and ATF had not been changed since new. Both looked horrible.

Since I was doing some major engine repair I removed the PS pump and put it on the shelf. Unfortunately, the pump dried out. It may have had a whine but in the face of other issues, it wasn't recognizable. Long story short, the PS pump was designed to run on Dexron II. Curing the problem came from flushing the PS fluid with a clear/ amber fluid (Valvoline or Prestone) until the system ran clean with also installing a Cardone reman from Advance Auto with a lifetime warranty. Also, I had a similar situation with another vehicle 2 years later. Both vehicles are still running. No PS issues since.

As it turned out, a combination of AA coupons will allow me to repeat this act some 12 years later with another Cardone pump for $150. + tax and shipping. I found another old LC/LX pump in my workshop that will become the core. Since it has a lifetime warranty, I don't care if I trash it while trying to diagnose the contamination issue. As far as known pump quality, the pump will most likely outlast me. Ha!

The clear fluid will help me try (maybe) find the point where the fluid starts to pick up contamination. Does this happen when I off-road only when I off-road and put the system under stress at an RPM greater than 4,000? I don't know. I need a constant in a hand full of variables to begin sorting this out. If a new OEM hose kit wasn't near $500, I would just go for that. I may do that yet.

I will be returning the OEM pump for replacement under warranty.

The worst thing that will happen in the end is I will have a new OEM pump as a spare.

Will I get lucky again?

Time will tell.

 

[awesomeissquid]

Very curious to hear what you figure out. One thing you might consider if you end up going for the OEM hoses in the future is the later model years 2003+ I believe have an additional PS fluid cooler before the fluid returns to the pump. When I replaced my rack I was considering switching to that just as an added bonus. They also have a different pump, and they do look slightly different, but I could not confirm one way or other if they were interchangeable. I was trying to find some flow rate and pressure ratings, but of course that is not easy to come by.

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC has used the Sunsong HP line if I recall-

Paul- notice any difference between line ID of sun song lines and OEM?

Only that is a faction of the OEM cost.

 

[2001LC]

Well, it didn't take long to start turning dark again. I ordered a Blackstone Labs test kit.

Maybe it will continue to deteriorate quickly so I can get a meaningful analysis.


View attachment 3009606

The fluid will turn dark again quickly. Especially the first time a full synthetic ATF used, as it goes to work cleaning.

I did once see PS fluid come out, much cleaner looking/liter then I would have thought it would have for over 20K miles. Service history at Toyota, indicated, Z-max added last flush. I've never tried the stuff, but I was impressed.

Bottom line, flush often. Every 10K or 20K max, to keep bearings, seals and gears in top condition.

 

[abuck99]

The fluid will turn dark again quickly. Especially the first time a full synthetic ATF used, as it goes to work cleaning.

I did once see PS fluid come out, much cleaner looking/liter then I would have thought it would have for over 20K miles. Service history at Toyota, indicated, Z-max added last flush. I've never tried the stuff, but I was impressed.

Bottom line, flush often. Every 10K or 20K max, to keep bearings, seals and gears in top condition.

Paul- steering system components should be sano. His Steering rack was replaced 2yrs ago , then new Hp/lp lines and 3 new pumps since been replaced-

 

[OwnerCS]

After cycling 2.5 GALLONS of power steering fluid through the system with lock-to-lock turning cycles during the flush, I think it is finally running clean enough to install a replacement pump.

Observations

1) While cycling 2.5 gallons of fluid through the system, I held my hand over the reservoir opening while the steering wheel was turned lock to lock. At each hard lock position, where the pump makes an increased hiss, there is a strong vacuum that builds in the reservoir. This may be an explanation for why so much dust/dirt was sucked into the system as I had been doing a number of hard steering locks on switchbacks. With the short-lived Dorman reservoir, I can see how dust was sucked into the system. While I did change and cycle fluid, there must have been some dirt still hiding in a cavity from last summer.

The Dorman reservoir cap provided little in the way of a reservoir seal. A normal driver would not have experienced the amount of dust combined with hard steering locks. I will move the knuckle adjusters out to reduce the amount of pressure that occurs from a hard lock.

2) After the flush, the fluid now looks like a little fountain inside the reservoir as the wheel is turned from lock to lock. Fluid will shoot up out of the reservoir hole when turned lock-to-lock. While the pump is weak, it does appear to be moving more fluid.

3) The system appears to be clean enough for me to go forward with changing the pump tomorrow.

Pictures Below

 

[abuck99]

Dorman reservoir- why not oem?

Can you trace the introduction of the Forman reservoir to the start of the dirty fluid?