Another possible purchase question - 1996 HG replacement (1 Viewer)

[DirtyPepper]

I already own a 1997 that is NOT triple locked with 220k miles...that I'm beginning to baseline and build.

BUT...

I have the option to purchase a 1996 that IS triple locked (for a low $$$), but, the head gasket is blown and there is a hard lurch coming from the engine when attempting to start it, which MIGHT be the flywheel jumping teeth off the starter?). Rig is unmolested and the owner is the original owner with a notebook of maintenance...the damn thing even has the stock stereo still in it.

320,xxx "gentle" miles except that the damn thing got SUPER hot.



Question: Without knowing what else might be wrong with the engine as it got super hot and needs a new HG, what's the price range I could be looking at for a head gasket replacement (non DIY as I don't have a place to perform the fix)? It's possible that it might need a full rebuild...

It's triple locked so I'm leaning to it being worth it to me.

And yes, I've searched the forum already and some of the replies I've seen on HG replacements are from a few years ago, so I'm looking at anyone who has had the work don within the last 6-12 months

I'd be looking into a Cruiser shop to do the work...just need a guesstimate on cost.


Thanks in advance!

 

[White Sheep]

It depends on your area. Im in North Carolina and it costed about $2200 to rebuild my engine.

I recently purchased purchased an 80 that I'm gonna do a LS swap on. That looks like it's going to be ~$5k with most of the work from me and friends.

 

[White Sheep]

A caveat to above. A friend and I pulled the motor and took it to the machine shop. The machine shop tore it down and rebuild for $1400, and I bought a master rebuild kit for $700-$800.

 

[DirtyPepper]

A caveat to above. A friend and I pulled the motor and took it to the machine shop. The machine shop tore it down and rebuild for $1400, and I bought a master rebuild kit for $700-$800.

That helps, thanks!

Was the rebuild shop done at a general auto shop or a Cruiser shop? Just curious.

 

[White Sheep]

That helps, thanks!

Was the rebuild shop done at a general auto shop or a Cruiser shop? Just curious.

A general shop that was recommended by a guy in the club. He took a few Cruisers there with no complaints.

 

[Kernal]

I would assume the engine is toast and needs either a complete rebuild or replacement. Either way having a reputable Land Cruiser shop do that work the cost could be anywhere between $5000 (low end, headgasket only) and $15,000+ ie: if you pay someone to install a new engine (if the original has too much damage).

 

[DirtyPepper]

I would assume the engine is toast and needs either a complete rebuild or replacement. Either way having a reputable Land Cruiser shop do that work the cost could be anywhere between $5000 (low end, headgasket only) and $15,000+ ie: if you pay someone to install a new engine (if the original has too much damage).

Thanks for replying...yeah, I just finished speaking with my Land Cruiser shop...on a low end (without looking at it and in a perfect world with no scarring or block damage), I'd be looking at $4,500

That being said, the shop indicated the last three HG failures that came in were so badly scarred that they recommended full engine rebuilds...two declined and one accepted...and it's coming in somewhere of a ballpark of $15k to $18K which is too deep of a rabbit hole for me to go into, but, like Obi-Wan said to Han, "There are other alternatives..."


Right now, it's just a matter of the owner of the '96 confirming with the shop what I told her the rebuild pricing is going to be, which I totally understand and respect...then, hopefully we'll come to an agreeable price for both of us.

In the end, she could just sell it to someone who's willing to go for her asking price no matter the rebuild price, and I respect that too.

In the end end...I have my 1997...it's just not triple locked.

 

[Dirt Ferguson]

You could also pay to have your non-locked rig get locked with lockers.

If being 3X locked is the real rub here.

 

[Kernal]

Was that $15,000 estimate for a rebuild of your original engine, overbored, new pistons, bearings, head rebuilt with new valves, springs, ---- ?

FWIW new short blocks and heads are still available, however I've been told some engine builders prefer a "seasoned" (used) block to start a build.

 

[SaturnAscends]

This seems like a common fate for these old J80s: people ignore leaking hoses and heater valves and badly overheat the engine.

An independent ship will charge about $3500-4k for a top end rebuild around here, but that’s without other stuff like resealing the oil pan, etc.

The bottom end might be ok on that 96 but if it got that hot the block could be pitted or cracked, bearings could be shot, pistons melted, etc. Could be a real rabbit hole.

You could get a new short block but the cheapest option might be to source a used OBD2 engine with good compression and swap it in.

All in all if only go for this one is the truck is in excellent condition other than the blown head gasket.

 

[BILT4ME]

I already own a 1997 that is NOT triple locked with 220k miles...that I'm beginning to baseline and build.

BUT...

I have the option to purchase a 1996 that IS triple locked (for a low $$$), but, the head gasket is blown and there is a hard lurch coming from the engine when attempting to start it, which MIGHT be the flywheel jumping teeth off the starter?). Rig is unmolested and the owner is the original owner with a notebook of maintenance...the damn thing even has the stock stereo still in it.

320,xxx "gentle" miles except that the damn thing got SUPER hot.



Question: Without knowing what else might be wrong with the engine as it got super hot and needs a new HG, what's the price range I could be looking at for a head gasket replacement (non DIY as I don't have a place to perform the fix)? It's possible that it might need a full rebuild...

It's triple locked so I'm leaning to it being worth it to me.

And yes, I've searched the forum already and some of the replies I've seen on HG replacements are from a few years ago, so I'm looking at anyone who has had the work don within the last 6-12 months

I'd be looking into a Cruiser shop to do the work...just need a guesstimate on cost.


Thanks in advance!

If the engine "Has a hard lurch to it when trying to start it" did you pull the spark plugs before trying such a thing?

If there's even a risk of a blown head gasket, you should NEVER try to start it without pulling the plugs because you will bend a rod when you hydraulic the engine. The starter motor will NOT "jump teeth". It will either push through and break stuff or it will shear teeth off the ring gear and break stuff.

How long has this sat with a "blown head gasket"? If it's more than a couple months, then odds are the cylinder(s) are pitted from rust due to the coolant sitting on top of the piston. If it's been a couple weeks, you're probably OK and maybe just the head....until you tried to start it and hydraulic'd a cylinder.

Basically, it's a $1000 parts truck at this point.

 

[DirtyPepper]

You could also pay to have your non-locked rig get locked with lockers.

If being 3X locked is the real rub here.

If the engine "Has a hard lurch to it when trying to start it" did you pull the spark plugs before trying such a thing?

If there's even a risk of a blown head gasket, you should NEVER try to start it without pulling the plugs because you will bend a rod when you hydraulic the engine. The starter motor will NOT "jump teeth". It will either push through and break stuff or it will shear teeth off the ring gear and break stuff.

How long has this sat with a "blown head gasket"? If it's more than a couple months, then odds are the cylinder(s) are pitted from rust due to the coolant sitting on top of the piston. If it's been a couple weeks, you're probably OK and maybe just the head....until you tried to start it and hydraulic'd a cylinder.

Basically, it's a $1000 parts truck at this point.

Good to know.

She said it had been "sitting for about a month" and she had tried to start it a few times when it started lurching on her. When we finally did get it started, it didn't lurch, shut it down, and then started it again and it lurched. When I started it, I was unaware there was a HG issue. She mentioned it AFTER when I asked her "Why are you selling it"

"Well, like the ad says, it has a bad head gasket..."

The ad said nothing about a bad head gasket.
She said "It was there!" but it wasn't...I even pulled out my phone and showed her the ad.
Her daughter then updated the ad to reflect a bad HG.

After discussing the issue with a Land Cruiser specific shop here in town and giving all the info about it, and the lead tech talking to her...it's not worth it to me to buy it. She won't come down far enough and while I could sell it for parts or pull the lockers off or even swap my '97 engine/trans/tcase into it...it's not worth all the hassle. I could do A LOT to my 1997 with the money I would spend getting the factory 3x lockers off and swapped from that 1996. To include adding ARB Lockers, which I know are vastly better than factory.


I appreciate all the advice and help!

 

[DirtyPepper]

This seems like a common fate for these old J80s: people ignore leaking hoses and heater valves and badly overheat the engine.

An independent ship will charge about $3500-4k for a top end rebuild around here, but that’s without other stuff like resealing the oil pan, etc.

The bottom end might be ok on that 96 but if it got that hot the block could be pitted or cracked, bearings could be shot, pistons melted, etc. Could be a real rabbit hole.

You could get a new short block but the cheapest option might be to source a used OBD2 engine with good compression and swap it in.

All in all if only go for this one is the truck is in excellent condition other than the blown head gasket.

I hear ya...

Body was straight and clean except for the front bumper being slightly askew due to smacking a deer.
Leather was cracked but no splits or tears. Dash has no cracks. Driver seat power has seized and cannot go back...it's too close to the wheel for me to even slide in and drive.
No rust, no paint peel, windows all open (but slow), sunroof opens but needs the drain cleared.

Land Cruiser specialty shop quoted minimum $4500 for the HG and that's only if it's in a perfect world and nothing else is wrong, but the last three HG that came in needed full rebuilds...which would put me, at this shop, in the $15-$18K ballpark.

We talked about swapping my 1997 engine/trans/tcase into this but that would be a high end of $8k
We talked about swapping the 1996 lockers into mine, but that would come to around $4500...I'd prefer FACTORY lockers but I know ARB lockers are BETTER and last longer, and would cost the same so, it would behoove me to just get the ARB lockers at some point.

All in all, I have my Onyx Black 1997 that's a stock canvas and I can do A LOT with the minimum $4500 that I would need to just put into the 1996, not counting the purchase price.


I appreciate all the help and words of advice!

 

[BILT4ME]

Good to know.

She said it had been "sitting for about a month" and she had tried to start it a few times when it started lurching on her. When we finally did get it started, it didn't lurch, shut it down, and then started it again and it lurched. When I started it, I was unaware there was a HG issue. She mentioned it AFTER when I asked her "Why are you selling it"

"Well, like the ad says, it has a bad head gasket..."

The ad said nothing about a bad head gasket.
She said "It was there!" but it wasn't...I even pulled out my phone and showed her the ad.
Her daughter then updated the ad to reflect a bad HG.

After discussing the issue with a Land Cruiser specific shop here in town and giving all the info about it, and the lead tech talking to her...it's not worth it to me to buy it. She won't come down far enough and while I could sell it for parts or pull the lockers off or even swap my '97 engine/trans/tcase into it...it's not worth all the hassle. I could do A LOT to my 1997 with the money I would spend getting the factory 3x lockers off and swapped from that 1996. To include adding ARB Lockers, which I know are vastly better than factory.


I appreciate all the advice and help!

Maybe post the ad here for all the vultures.......

 

[DirtyPepper]

Was that $15,000 estimate for a rebuild of your original engine, overbored, new pistons, bearings, head rebuilt with new valves, springs, ---- ?

FWIW new short blocks and heads are still available, however I've been told some engine builders prefer a "seasoned" (used) block to start a build.

If I purchasedthe 1996 with the HG and the engine rebuild was needed, that $15k would include EVERYTHING, but a big chunk of money would come from just pulling the engine out (then rebuilt to new), and then reinstalled.

 

[nickolai]

Buy the truck with the cooked HG, swap the axles to your good truck, harvest good parts from the bad truck, scrap what you can't sell and buy beer. Easy.

 

[DirtyPepper]

Maybe post the ad here for all the vultures.......

Buy the truck with the cooked HG, swap the axles to your good truck, harvest good parts from the bad truck, scrap what you can't sell and buy beer. Easy.

I would, but she won't come down enough in price. I mean, it's still a good price but, not good enough all things considered.

 

[BILT4ME]

I would, but she won't come down enough in price. I mean, it's still a good price but, not good enough all things considered.

You still want it for yourself........

Admit it......

 

[Fj80oregon]

Where is this located come on pm me the details! I’ll buy you a beer!

 

[Fj80oregon]

Where is this located come on pm me the details! I’ll buy you a beer!

I’m a vulture!