Another CV Axle Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

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The tightness I see being discussed is puzzling with new OEM flanges sliding effortlessly on and off the OEM and ID axles. I usually prefer a tight fit. Am I missing some other tightening or is some amount of wiggle room on the flange to axle expected for other reasons?
 
OwnerCS said:
The tightness I see being discussed is puzzling with new OEM flanges sliding effortlessly on and off the OEM and ID axles. I usually prefer a tight fit. Am I missing some other tightening or is some amount of wiggle room on the flange to axle expected for other reasons?
Click to expand...
I don't think they are going on "effortlessly" compared to the aftermarkets. I think what is happening is the new axles (aftermarket) with the new hubs just have much much tighter tolerance than the full OEM build (axles and hubs) due to, in my mind, a meshing of improper angles. That is why I asked to see the pic like I did (hopefully someone can provide). What I am thinking is happening is that the profile of the spline engagement on the OEM hub is more triangular and am wondering if the profile of the splines on the axle are more squared/trapezoidal??? The slight inconsistency in the mating surface would cause for a tighter (in my mind) engagement between hub spline face and axle spline vs. full OEM where they may have a slight gap but the shape/profile are almost exact same (both triangular).
 
OwnerCS said:
The tightness I see being discussed is puzzling with new OEM flanges sliding effortlessly on and off the OEM and ID axles. I usually prefer a tight fit. Am I missing some other tightening or is some amount of wiggle room on the flange to axle expected for other reasons?
Click to expand...
gregnash said:
I don't think they are going on "effortlessly" compared to the aftermarkets. I think what is happening is the new axles (aftermarket) with the new hubs just have much much tighter tolerance than the full OEM build (axles and hubs) due to, in my mind, a meshing of improper angles. That is why I asked to see the pic like I did (hopefully someone can provide). What I am thinking is happening is that the profile of the spline engagement on the OEM hub is more triangular and am wondering if the profile of the splines on the axle are more squared/trapezoidal??? The slight inconsistency in the mating surface would cause for a tighter (in my mind) engagement between hub spline face and axle spline vs. full OEM where they may have a slight gap but the shape/profile are almost exact same (both triangular).
Click to expand...
Based on @flintknapper and my experience, new OEM hub flanges do not go all the way on Cardone HD shafts "effortlessly". They start effortlessly but require a bit of soft persuasion to go all the way on. I wish I had taken pictures of the Cardone HD when I had it, but my conclusion was that the shape/cut angle of the splines are slightly wider (trapezoidal as @gregnash mentioned) than the OEM shaft's splines, resulting in very, very tight tolerances with the splines on new hub flanges and zero backlash.

nitteo said:
i feel like we are splitting hairs here
Click to expand...
Possibly, but I don't think so. Pretty well documented on here that slop/backlash in the fitment between CV shaft splines and hub flange splines is one of the primary culprits of the infamous driveline "knock". Over time, this slop + knock wears down the splines on the outboard CV shaft and eventually results in stripping of those splines. So presumably, tighter tolerance/smaller backlash in the fitment between CV shaft splines and hub flange splines would reduce spline wear rate and perhaps prolong the time/miles until either component needs replaced (contingent on wheel bearing job being performed correctly and appropriate circlip installed; see @ClassyJalopy recent thread for the disaster that a mechanic caused him).
 
I couldn't install a brand new hub flange on a brand new Cardone HD axle. I could start it up but then it got really hard to move it one, I would have to use a brass hammer to seat it all the way in. Decided to just spend my money on an OEM axle (twice! :censor:)
 
gregnash said:
@flintknapper Interesting on the puller idea to run them on a bit prior to installation. I may have to invest in a cheap HF puller to do just that. Could you install one of the new flanges on the Cardone to the point where then face of the flange and the end of the axle are just flush and then take a pic from that front at as close a focal depth as possible. What I am looking/hoping to see is if you can see where the splines mate to the hub flange and possibly see a difference in the "shape" of the mating surface.
Click to expand...

^^^^


Let me see what I can do. My phone won't focus that close, but my Digital Camera has Macro settings. I'm not sure we can tell much if the flange is flush with the end of the shaft...(because it is beveled) but maybe we can see something if I put the flange on a bit further.

Mine will go on by hand for the first 3/4" or so...but after that it gets increasingly tighter.

I'll post back later if I get any usable pics.
 
ClassyJalopy said:
I couldn't install a brand new hub flange on a brand new Cardone HD axle. I could start it up but then it got really hard to move it one, I would have to use a brass hammer to seat it all the way in. Decided to just spend my money on an OEM axle (twice! :censor:)
Click to expand...
This is obviously of no use to you now, but the method on page 5 that @flintknapper shows is the same as what I used to get new hub flange on new Cardone HD. Pushes it on nice, easy, and uniformly, without any dreaded hammering! Then use @2001LC method to compress grease and get properly sized circlip installed.
 
flintknapper said:
^^^^


Let me see what I can do. My phone won't focus that close, but my Digital Camera has Macro settings. I'm not sure we can tell much if the flange is flush with the end of the shaft...(because it is beveled) but maybe we can see something if I put the flange on a bit further.

Mine will go on by hand for the first 3/4" or so...but after that it gets increasingly tighter.

I'll post back later if I get any usable pics.
Click to expand...

If you can use some strong backlighting behind the hub flange. Think of it like looking for pinholes in a body panel while doing fabrication work. While it may not be visible to the eye, the backlight causes a "glow" effect that will show any sort of gaps.
 
If I were to hold the OEM axle straight up and place the OEM flange over the splines and release it, it would fall into place.

There is a small amount of backlash if I try to rock the flange back and forth on the axle. I wish I had a tool to measure it.

Remembering the old days of 12 bolt posi-trac rear ends, having a 0.010-inch of gear backlash was good. As the rear end reached operating temperatures and the parts expanded from heat, the gap would close. If there was no clearance after heat expansion, lubricant would not properly cover the surfaces, resulting in more stress on the gears.



1582847734682.png
 
Cardone HD:

It's impossible to see how the splines fit the flange with a straight on end shot and it doesn't show the splines (the one's past the clip groove anyway). So...the best I can do, is shown below. The angle misrepresents the contact pattern a bit. But here they are (mine) for comparison.

The cuts in the Flange are triangular (easiest way to cut them), the axle splines are of course truncated and don't fully fill the area available.
Macro3.jpg

Macro2.jpg

Macro1.jpg

Macro.jpg
 
OwnerCS said:
I found two Chinese makers from one of my other posts.

Heri - Yuhuan, China

Heri Automotive, Inc. | Premium-Quality 100% New Constant Velocity Drive Axle Supplier | Company | Factory

Wohn - Ningbo, China (Trackmotive/Surtrack/ImportDirect/APWI)

Wonh Industries Co. Ltd.
Click to expand...


^^^^

' Heri' has quite the impressive facility and production capabilities. Everything done 'in house' is always good for quality control. Extensive testing practices.

China has fast become the World's Manufacturer....you have to give them credit for that. There was a time when "made in China" meant 'junk'. But today....products that are 'built to spec' can be as good as any found anyplace (just depends on the spec and rigid testing).
 
flintknapper said:
^^^^

' Heri' has quite the impressive facility and production capabilities. Everything done 'in house' is always good for quality control. Extensive testing practices.

China has fast become the World's Manufacturer....you have to give them credit for that. There was a time when "made in China" meant 'junk'. But today....products that are 'built to spec' can be as good as any found anyplace (just depends on the spec and rigid testing).
Click to expand...

We need to find a Heri axle to see it if has the distinctive tip like Advance, Cardone, and NAPA. I see PepBoys sells Heri axles.
 
From the pictures, these Drive Tech Axles (DTA) on eBay have the distinctive outer tip.

www.ebay.com

Car & Truck CV Joints, Boots & Parts for sale | eBay

Get the best deals on Car & Truck CV Joints, Boots & Parts when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices.
www.ebay.com
 
gregnash said:
Here is a link to the PepBoys one.. not bad at $75, around same price as the Cardone.
Click to expand...
That's it. I think this helps us connect the dots and understand the two manufacturers products.
 
OwnerCS said:
That's it. I think this helps us connect the dots and understand the two manufacturers products.
Click to expand...
Yeah, used their "e-Catalog" on the side menu to search then took their part number (90685XD) and searched the interwebz. Came up with a few hits, Pep Boys being one. I think there is still one semi-local to me (30 mins away) so I may try them instead of the Cardone's for comparison sake.
 
gregnash said:
Yeah, used their "e-Catalog" on the side menu to search then took their part number (90685XD) and searched the interwebz. Came up with a few hits, Pep Boys being one. I think there is still one semi-local to me (30 mins away) so I may try them instead of the Cardone's for comparison sake.
Click to expand...
I'm seeing the Cardone part number pattern in the PepBoys part number that is 665185HD. Cardone usually prefixes the manufacturer part number with a 66.
 
Due to a mishap this evening pulling my f'ing DS CV axle for the third time to address a leaking axle oil seal, the inner shaft popped out of the tulip, jacking up the c-clip that holds it in. So after getting the cv on the bench to address this, I discovered the inner shaft on Cardon CV's does indeed have 6 bearings. Just thought I would share that tid bit with the group.
 
4WDBetterthan2feet said:
Due to a mishap this evening pulling my f'ing DS CV axle for the third time to address a leaking axle oil seal, the inner shaft popped out of the tulip, jacking up the c-clip that holds it in. So after getting the cv on the bench to address this, I discovered the inner shaft on Cardon CV's does indeed have 6 bearings. Just thought I would share that tid bit with the group.
Click to expand...
Are these the regular Cardone or the Cardone HD? Good to know as I am debating between rebuilding a set of OEM for around $600 or getting a set of the Cardone. First world problems I know... and most will likely say OEM.
 
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