Another 60 axle in a 40 W/O outboarding

[General Sherman]

I have had a 60axle sitting in the side yard for quite a while. I was eventually going to put it into the 40. Well the Dusy was particullarly hard on my front axle this year so i am starting the swap early.

I have ran the stock front axle for many years. It has Lukes (4x4labs) highsteer and has always stayed good and tight. I started running 1.5" wheel spacers a few yeas ago and recently started running 38.5" sx's. I think the combination of the tires and wheel spacers is just to much for the studs.

To keep the same width i currently have with the spacer's i am going with the 60 housing. I will also intall a fifth stud (bolt) while i'm at it. I will not outboard the springs because i want to keep as much tire clearance as possible. I will instead use one of Dan's (RufStuff) perch's combined with a notch in the housing to get to the 27" perch width.
This is a link to Rustynailjustin's post on Pirate where he acomplished the same thing along with a axle flip. Very cool. Baja FJ45 (Buildup thread) - Page 5 - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Anyway, on with some pics for a start.

 

[General Sherman]

couple more........What do you think?

 

[chicago]

Think you might hate getting your diff back in!
I like that idea for that diff side perch as that is the biggest PITA of the SOA process. That simplifies that whole thing.

Seriously, what are you gonna do about the interference with the diff?

 

['74 UA FJ]

He'll probably cut that bit off.

Why not just go with the 6 stud approach? I assume you already had longfields for the 40 axle?

 

[Fast Eddy]

Seriously, what are you gonna do about the interference with the diff?

He'll probably cut that bit off.

Huh? Isn't the diff stud right below it and probably another one in the way of the u-bolt?

 

[chicago]

Huh? Isn't the diff stud right below it and probably another one in the way of the u-bolt?

With the ruff stuff....ummmm...stuff, they use a standard grade 8 bolt to clamp the perch to the plate with the spring sandwiched in-between, but no u bolt. At least on that side.
However, that is hosed if he cuts off that tab there that is RIGHT in the way of the diff face.

 

[GarageRat]

So you plan on notching out the third? Well, I see an issue with that being an area without much sealing leaving a possible spot for water to get in or oil to get out if you get it at the right angle. If you ever need to switch thirds on the trail you'll be hosed unless the other one is notched as well or you could make a cover plate I guess.

 

[mano002]

Go about half-way down this page for another way to do it. Lowenbrau but 60 series avlesin his BJ74.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/139874-expedition-bj74-buildup-5.html

I decided that the Proffitts outboarding kit was an easier job, and easier to fix if I screwed it up, so I outboarded.

Good Luck! Kevin

 

[General Sherman]

I plan to notch the diff to clear the perch. Rustynailjustin did this on his fj45( I posted a link to his build above-it has pictures of the notched diff.) It will leave at least 1/2" for sealing the diff. I do not want to outboard the springs, nor do i want to run wheel spacers any more. I saw the post before on the expedition bj74 build. I liked it, but this way will accomplish the same thing without cutting into the axle housing. I have many spare diffs so if it doesn't work out i can always go a different way. That said i think this will work fine.

I am hoping to be able to run it without a cut-n-turn. I can always go back and cut in some more caster later if need be.

I have a few sets of stock knuckles. I will go with a six stud set if need be when i run out of knuckles to use with the 5 stud upgrade. Everyone i know who have done the 5th stud have not needed to go with a 6th.

The cool part is that i will be able to run 40's with stock 60 width without touching the leafs.

 

[GarageRat]

It's definately an interesting idea, I'd read that thread a little and it'd been nagging me there too. If it works then awesome, I'm just trying to play Devil's Advocate here and see if there's anything you might have overlooked.

Are the 60 guys really having that much of a problem hitting the leaves with say 3"-3.5" BS wheels? Looking at Patches (Kling-On's old rig/ CruisinFJ60's new rig) it looks like it can get tight but still clears. I'll keep an eye on this as it progresses, I've got a 60 front for one of my 40s and if the tire clearance is an issue (planning 37s minimum) then it's not really any more work for me to do.

Seeing as you're already running that width with the spaced 40 housing what kind of clearance are we talking with the 40 spring spacing and what are your steering stops set at?

 

[General Sherman]

My 38.5 SX's on 3.5" BS barely clear the leafs. I don't think 40's would clear without significantly limiting the steering angles. If i wanted less steering i'd run a dana. Might as well take advantage of the birfield's ability to turn tight.

If your going to stay with 37's then you will have plenty of room by outboarding the springs. I just wanted to stay with what i have.

 

[bkfj40]

why don't you get the tube for the short side...it would extend out the short side. No outboarding, no notching diffs.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you need to put a trails spare diff in there, you better have a grinder.

 

[jtaco1]

That is going to give you a pretty substantial lift with the way that perch is. I just got done modifying an FJ60 housing to go in my 88 4 Runner and notched the housing at the stock perch location and have the top of the perch down on the top of axle tube for nearly no lift.

You could do a shackle reversal along with a slight outboard by using a mini truck front spring hanger and then put shackle tubes thru the frame and still be okay with your tires.

Another option would be to keep the FJ40 axle setup you have and install IFS hub bodies to widen the front. Would net you about 3" and is a bolt on afair.

 

[porten1134]

is there an advantage to outboarding the springs in terms of stability? would it change the fulcrum point on the axle to flex more or make it handle better as a dd? if so how far can you outboard without rubbin' your tires up on your springs? i dont mean to steal the thread but i'm trying to decide which way i'm gonna go doing the exact same thing.

 

[bustanutley]

Are the 60 guys really having that much of a problem hitting the leaves with say 3"-3.5" BS wheels? Looking at Patches (Kling-On's old rig/ CruisinFJ60's new rig) it looks like it can get tight but still clears. I'll keep an eye on this as it progresses, I've got a 60 front for one of my 40s and if the tire clearance is an issue (planning 37s minimum) then it's not really any more work for me to do.

With my springs outboarded 1.25" each side, 3"bs wheels and 1.5" spacers, my 39.5" IROKs just barley rub on the springs with no stops.

is there an advantage to outboarding the springs in terms of stability?

Yes.

 

[Mace]

Also keep in mind, with the amount of lift you are going to see mounting the pad up that high, You may not fit a standard pair of hysteer arms.

 

[General Sherman]

why don't you get the tube for the short side...it would extend out the short side. No outboarding, no notching diffs.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you need to put a trails spare diff in there, you better have a grinder.

I like the tube extentions but this will work with shafts i already have-no custom lengths needed. I do have a grinder if ever needed. I can't ever remember me or anyone else needing a front diff. We have all seen plenty of pinion breaks in the field, but i have never seen a front. If it does go, I can also swap the ring and pinion pretty quick once the diff is out.

That is going to give you a pretty substantial lift with the way that perch is. I just got done modifying an FJ60 housing to go in my 88 4 Runner and notched the housing at the stock perch location and have the top of the perch down on the top of axle tube for nearly no lift.

You could do a shackle reversal along with a slight outboard by using a mini truck front spring hanger and then put shackle tubes thru the frame and still be okay with your tires.

Another option would be to keep the FJ40 axle setup you have and install IFS hub bodies to widen the front. Would net you about 3" and is a bolt on afair.

This perch is ground to match the Ruff Stuff 3" perch on the opposite side. Might be a little taller than stock perches flipped on my 40 housing (I haven't compared them) but i wouldn't call it substantial. Shackle reversal has been done for a while but with no outboard-I think i explained why i won't outboard. Using the IFS hubs will net the same issue as running the wheel spacers. It puts to much stress (IMO) on the knuckle studs.

is there an advantage to outboarding the springs in terms of stability? would it change the fulcrum point on the axle to flex more or make it handle better as a dd? if so how far can you outboard without rubbin' your tires up on your springs? i dont mean to steal the thread but i'm trying to decide which way i'm gonna go doing the exact same thing.

With my springs outboarded 1.25" each side, 3"bs wheels and 1.5" spacers, my 39.5" IROKs just barley rub on the springs with no stops.



Yes.

I would probably like the stability for road driving that would come from outboarding. I would rather not have the rubbing. The whole point is to keep the width i have without running any spacers. Honestly, if i wanted to be any wider i would put in a d60. I just don't want to have the tires so far outside the fenders. I already am pushing the limits but at least there is more tire under the fender than not.(barely). With that in mind it seems simpler to notch the diff housing than cut into the axle housing or cut off the knuckle ball.

Please keep the discussion going though. I find it interesting and maybe there is something i'm not thinking of.

 

[General Sherman]

Also keep in mind, with the amount of lift you are going to see mounting the pad up that high, You may not fit a standard pair of hysteer arms.

I understand the concern about the lift and steering clearance. Hear is a comparison pic of my perch and Rusynailjustin's perch. The last pic is of his with the steering installed.

 

[RustyNailJustin]

Replied on pirate thread.

 

[General Sherman]

Thanks for the Pirate repy,,,,I have 4x4labs steering so i am going to have to be particularly careful with the perch height. From the pictures above it looks like my perch is shorter than yours. I currently use 1.5" tierods but i can always use 1.25. I am going to take some measurements from my 40 axle but it should be pretty close to the same height as the perch of the 60 axle. I am shooting for 4deg. of caster (to match what i currently have). A little less caster will help the tierod clear the springs. the draglink has plenty of clearance.