Alternator brushes as PM (1 Viewer)

[bloc]

Seems like there have been a rash of alternator replacements lately and as I approach and pass 200k I've had that on my mind. When I got my 80-series it had 270k on either the original or a Genuine Toyota alternator, and I noticed in the parts diagrams we can buy a brush kit for that unit. I ordered one, and on that platform it's quite easy to remove the alternator for a little upkeep. When I did this I noticed the bearings seemed perfect, and even the wear on the slip rings was minimal. I tossed that brush holder in with good results until I did the LS swap.

So this got me thinking.. none of the recent replacements have talked about noise or anything from the bearings, just the alternator becoming ineffective. I did some digging and came up with 27370-0S010 as the brush holder kit for a 3UR alternator and ordered one. MSRP is under $30, I paid about $21, but it did take a solid month and a half to come in.

Yes, this is a whole lot cheaper than a new alternator, but you'd be fair to say it's so much trouble to get in there, just pay for the new alternator and have it all be minty fresh.

Well, what if you are already doing a radiator?

Turns out I was. I replaced a cracked (but not leaking) radiator at 105k, but this was early 2018 before the new part came out. So I knew I'd want to get the updated radiator, and with almost 100k on mine the crack was visible but not yet dangerous. I waited for a parts sale and finally got one that wasn't damaged in shipping.

This thread is more about the brush job itself than removing the alternator, that is documented elsewhere. And I propose it may be a good option for someone doing a radiator, or trying to save money on the alternator if they have a bunch of miles and theirs is making them nervous.

Alternator on the bench

These three 8mm nuts come off to expose the brush holder and diodes

New next to old, showing the clever hold-back device to make installation easy.

Other side, after the holder is installed you pull the metal loops and the brushes drop down to the slip rings.

 

[bloc]

Old brush holder and brushes

Old vs new showing the difference in length. And wear products..

Slip rings in decent shape, but need some cleaning

I used an abrasive block to clean up the slip rings before installing the new brushes. I read about them on FIlthy's king rebuild video and they are useful for stuff like this. You could use a very fine emory cloth but you may sand the edges more than the middle.

 

[bloc]

With the brushes out to get rid of all friction, as I suspected my bearings were in perfect shape. No grit at all, even felt like there was plenty of grease inside.. they just had that fluid resistance of a very healthy roller bearing.

So I cleaned up the slip rings, installed the holder, pulled the little install pin, bolted it all together (with a detour to replace the dowel pins that pulled out of the timing cover), and everything works perfect.

For the other nerds out there, get some JIS screwdrivers to have the absolute perfect fit for toyota phillips head screws.

Edit: note that my alternator was working just fine, so this didn't "fix" it, but it did give me confidence that it won't just crap out on me 2000 miles from home.

 

[bloc]

Bonus content:

I and at least another person @Bryanmc had difficulty getting the alternator away from the block even with all of the bolts removed. It turns out there are some locating sleeves pressed into the timing cover that ensure the alternator is in a spot that will keep the serpentine belt in line. Those sleeves can corrode into their spots in the alternator, and pull out of the timing cover.

This little guy isn't supposed to be on the work bench with the alternator..

A couple of different size punches were able to get them out without damage

I then cleaned them up and used spare bolts and spacers to pull them back into the timing cover

 

[bloc]

 

[bloc]

And now, a little word about the brush holder. It's really clever.. it has an air slot in the bottom to pull air in during rotation of the armature, but this is all designed to house the brushes in a little air bubble in case the alternator is submerged. I do believe muddy water with grit would be too much, and I can remember at least one alternator failing quickly after conditions like this, but now that I've had one apart on my bench I'd have zero issues spraying clean water into one of our alternators, even while the engine was running.

 

[TeCKis300]

Nice and I love it when we dig deeper.

It's interesting how much longer fresh brushes are. When I tore down my old alternator, the commutator and brushes all looked fine. Yet I couldn't tell if the brushes were so warn that they weren't serviceable anymore.

 

[bloc]

Nice and I love it when we dig deeper.

It's interesting how much longer fresh brushes are. When I tore down my old alternator, the commutator and brushes all looked fine. Yet I couldn't tell if the brushes were so warn that they weren't serviceable anymore.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure this would fix an alternator that isn't functioning, and frankly to me it's so much work to get in there to do this I'd just install new in that context, but I think for you guys beating on your alternators with trailers and developed electrical systems could get some more life out of them if planned with other work.

This is the only real wear part within the alternator, after all.

 

[bloc]

I did just think of a couple more things. This detour only added about an hour to the radiator job. Also after doing all of this in a day, if I did have to change an alternator I'd seriously consider just pulling the radiator out. My LC is easier to get to the rad bolts than some LXs, but even with the work above the whole job was less than 4.5 hours, and I wasn't rushing. Maybe five if you count burping the air from the cooling system.

 

[Sandroad]

Thanks for another great tech thread. I enjoy component-level work like this so when I replace the inevitably cracked radiator someday, I’ll do this too. My alternator works harder than most from all my towing.

 

[KLF]

Hmm... Collecting part numbers for a complete front-of-engine refresh, figured I'd do this since I'm doing the radiator. Checked a couple of websites and both show this part number as "This part does not fit your 2015 Land Cruiser". Ignore and order anyway?

 

[bloc]

Hmm... Collecting part numbers for a complete front-of-engine refresh, figured I'd do this since I'm doing the radiator. Checked a couple of websites and both show this part number as "This part does not fit your 2015 Land Cruiser". Ignore and order anyway?

Your 2015 calls for the same part number as mine, 27370-27060 That then gets superseded by the above number within Toyota's system.

So you could try that 27060 and see whether you get different results.. but according to the diagrams I have access to our alternators are the same and it should work. Good thinking though on some model years may be different. I'll do some digging and verify that soon.

 

[TeCKis300]

@bloc, do you have a reference that shows a breakout of parts and part numbers? I still have my original alternator and would be interesting to see if I could source and change the regulator.

 

[bloc]

@KLF I just verified with 2008-2021 landcruiser and 2008-2022 LX570 27370-27060 is the brush holder, so the above supersession should apply to all US market 5.7L 200-series.

@bloc, do you have a reference that shows a breakout of parts and part numbers? I still have my original alternator and would be interesting to see if I could source and change the regulator.

Great idea. I'm assuming the above about brushes is the same for all parts in the alternator, but just the same this is for a 2009 LX since that's what you're looking for specifically.

Seems the regulator only comes with the rear cover and coil, which is over $800 on the discount sites. So that doesn't seem to be a cost-effective option. Also unless these are different than the older ones I've read about if you disassemble it you are in for a couple bearings too.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks for digging into it. Agree it doesn't sound like a good value or strategy

 

[KLF]

So I did this job last night. I already have the radiator out for replacement, so access was good. Still, not an easy alternator to remove. The bottom bolts are a real pain. I have no idea how you'd get it out without removing the radiator, I have the front wheel off and the plastic skirt removed, and I still couldn't pull it out through that way, it had to come out from above.

Once out, replacing the brushes was very easy, an 8mm socket and a JIS screwdriver is all you need. I used a small piece of 600 grit sandpaper to gently clean up the slip rings, but overall it was in pretty good shape. I would only do this as PM if you're already there. If your alternator is failing/failed, just swap in a new one.

My alternator was pretty dirty, as I apparently have a small oil leak somewhere above. Maybe from the PS pump? Timing cover leak? Or could this be the dreaded cam tower leak? Photo from inside the front wheel area, alternator and PS pump removed:

You can also see the passenger side block drain in this photo.

 

[bloc]

So I did this job last night. I already have the radiator out for replacement, so access was good. Still, not an easy alternator to remove. The bottom bolts are a real pain. I have no idea how you'd get it out without removing the radiator, I have the front wheel off and the plastic skirt removed, and I still couldn't pull it out through that way, it had to come out from above.

Once out, replacing the brushes was very easy, an 8mm socket and a JIS screwdriver is all you need. I used a small piece of 600 grit sandpaper to gently clean up the slip rings, but overall it was in pretty good shape. I would only do this as PM if you're already there. If your alternator is failing/failed, just swap in a new one.

My alternator was pretty dirty, as I apparently have a small oil leak somewhere above. Maybe from the PS pump? Timing cover leak? Or could this be the dreaded cam tower leak? Photo from inside the front wheel area, alternator and PS pump removed:

View attachment 3647865

You can also see the passenger side block drain in this photo.

Good stuff. I’d bet that leak is the timing cover, the driver side is more common but passenger side is a thing as well.

Also my understanding is the people that remove the alternator with the rad still in place drop the sway bar to make a path and go out the bottom. On a LX this wouldn’t be difficult but on a LC with KDSS ram putting force on the arm, could be more interesting.

But I agree, for a failed alternator the work to get in there isn’t worth the risk that this doesn’t fix the problem.

 

[Blackford Oakes]

View attachment 3647865

You can also see the passenger side block drain in this photo.

A coolant drain and fill is on the list for both my trucks (98K and 113K mi.). Is the nipple to the left of the copper nut where it actually drains from?

 

[bloc]

A coolant drain and fill is on the list for both my trucks (98K and 113K mi.). Is the nipple to the left of the copper nut where it actually drains from?

Yes. Loosen the brass nut and coolant flows out of that nipple. You can slip vinyl hose over that to catch all of it.

 

[Efjayforty]

I am getting ready to do this on my 2008. I have just replaced the brushes on nearly every toyota I have ever had and just the solenoid and contact points in the starter. It seems as though the bearings in the alternators and starters last a long time. However, on my 2008 Sequoia, I replaced the brushes as part of routine maintenance at 270K only to have the main bearing go out soon thereafter and have to buy an alternator in a pinch from a local parts store and do the job again. When I replace the brushes on my 98 200, I am going to replace the main bearing as well. I think it was only $13.