94 delayed cranking. Starter, ignition switch, or other? (1 Viewer)

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Just to update. It's been about a week and truck cranks immediately with every turn of the switch. It is fixed(no delayed starting).
Just to clarify what was done. I know the video I posted appears to be a complete bypass of the solenoid. This I did not do.
As @jvazquez53 mentioned, the ignition switch wire (black with red stripe) goes to the "S" terminal on the Ford solenoid. A 12 volt fused wire goes to one side of the solenoid and another wire then goes directly to the starter solenoid wire connector. I used all 12 gauge black stranded primary wire.
Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread.

 

[AaKnight]

So, essentally.... It's a solenoid in series before the starter solenoid? ....is there any danger of damaging the starter solenoid or overpowering any other electronics by adding the second power source?

I'm confused as to why both are needed, wouldn't the new power source with ignition relay be sufficient to turn the starter?

 

[malteserunner]

This mod supplies more power to the signal lead on the Toyota starter. It is not necessary to have back to back solenoids for the main cable to the starter.

 

[Kungpaodog]

For anyone chasing starting issues that can be addressed with a tap on the starter, be sure that the PO didn't install a cheap aftermarket starter. I rebuilt my starter on my '94 only to discover it was aftermarket and the bore was crooked. The OEM starter from the Toyota dealer worked great from there on out.

 

[AaKnight]

These starters and solenoids can be rebuilt quite inexpensively and it's pretty straightforward. Unless its totally junked... Id spend the 20$ on a rebuild kit from Denso (ebay) before I bought a new starter from the dealer. Id much rather have a rebuilt original than aftermarket cheap crap anyday.

Rebuilding or replacing the starter, would not resolve the power delivery issue the OP was addressing tho.

 

[johnalex]

It will also bolt onto the bracket that holds the charcoal canister.

 

[aviator31]

Not meaning to thread jack here, but maybe it will help others. I've been fighting this issue for well over a year now. Thing starts beautifully a few times, then turn it off and no dice. The only way to get it started is with jumper cables and that seems to workbook. But that looks a bit ghetto in the parking lot, especially when you are in a "dependable" Toyota I replaced the starter and was about to replace the fusible links and ignition.... So, should I give this a shot to resolve my issue?

 

[AaKnight]

, should I give this a shot to resolve my issue?

IMO, If the hot-wire to the starter solenoid is corroded, damaged, or otherwise has high resistance causing voltage loss (can be tested with a multimeter), then replacing the big wire to the starter should resolve the issue.

Might also check the grounding.

If the wiring is sound, and you know the starter is getting good voltage, then the solenoid can be rebuilt with a Denso rebuild kit from ebay. They run about 25$.
Neither of these cost much or are difficult. But the starter bolts are kind of a pain to get at.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

My issue was not the big (hot 12v) wire being corroded. It was signal wire from the ignition switch not being adequate sometimes. It could be the small wire itself, the switch or the 12v to the ignition switch. The Ford solenoid takes 12v directly from the battery to the solenoid switch connector (small wire). As long as the ignition switch signal wire has enough V to actuate the Ford solenoid, all is golden. So far so good.

 

[Bryan E.]

Ive dealt with it and solved it. Bypass the old wiring from the ignition switch to the starter. Wiring, connectors and connections get old and create intermittent connections. There's an old thread of mine where I tackle this problem a couple times. Check it out. It's the wiring.

Hey Roncruiser,

I have read your posts and others in the past about this problem. If memory serves me, you replaced a bunch of parts chasing this. Maybe it was another posters thread that I'm thinking about but are you saying this was your fix, to add the Ford relay or are you saying that you just replaced your wires to ignition switch and from there to starter?

I'm having same issue this week on my 94. New battery, just completely rebuilt the starter and now the dreaded click again.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

B

 

[gummycarbs]

I think these problems sound like an ignition switch (not the lock cylinder) going bad. I think it's part number 84450-60180, around $100.

 

[cuaround]

I have this same problem and I have also replaced my starter with a Denso unit, checked all the wiring, cleaned all the contact points, and still have thie click on occassion. When I put the meter to the wire that connects to the starter I am getting a reading of around 10(cant remember the exact amount)When i turn the key back and forth it eventually fires. The ford solenoid is most likely the way i will go as well but I was hoping to fix the existing issue. I dont mind replacing parts, it would be nice to know what is causing the problem. The ignition switch sounds like it may be the next best option since it fires up if the ignition is turned to off and on a few times.

 

[aviator31]

I am rarely able to get mine started by inserting/removing the key numerous times. Makes me think it's something more than a "bad" starter or ignition switch. I've read of others who also replaced the starter, ignition switch and fusible links only to have the same recurring no start issue. These intermittent issues are SO frustrating because there isn't always an obvious culprit...

 

[cuaround]

I am rarely able to get mine started by inserting/removing the key numerous times. Makes me think it's something more than a "bad" starter or ignition switch. I've read of others who also replaced the starter, ignition switch and fusible links only to have the same recurring no start issue. These intermittent issues are SO frustrating because there isn't always an obvious culprit...

Have you tried the Ford solenoid mentioned in the above posts? This seems like to be working pretty well for a few of the members. I know what you mean about the frustration, I just replaced the fusible links this afternoon and it would not fire with the first turn of the key, but then on the 2nd it did. So I know that was not the problem. After reading your post, now Im hesitant on the ignition switch. F#^K. Back to the drawing board. By chance have you seen this post on another site?
The Cruiser won't start "CLICK"

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

The Ford Solenoid is such an easy and inexpensive fix (under $30.00). Why not do it? You can replace the ignition switch and the wiring to and from the switch but chasing that down through the wiring looms sounds like a lot more work to me. Something else I mentioned about the 94 I worked on was that you might try holding the key in the start position. Sometimes after 5 seconds of holding it, it would turn over. It never left my son or I stranded. Did I mention I rebuilt the starter solenoid with new contacts/plunger, sometimes it clicked and sometimes it didn't, and replaced the ground/positive cable?

 

[gummycarbs]

The Ford Solenoid is such an easy and inexpensive fix (under $30.00). Why not do it?

In my opinion, it's adding a failure point and fixing a symptom rather than the cause.

These rigs are getting old enough that surprising amounts of oxidation can form on terminals, and contacts can become very worn. Those two factors lead to high resistance, which creates heat, which distorts connectors and melts insulation, exacerbating the issue.

 

[82much]

Just wondering if anyone has experienced and solved this issue.
This morning I tried to start my son's 94 and I turned the key several times and no click but the instrument panel lit up with each swing of the key. I tried with the shifter in Neutral and still no crank. I then held the key in the forward/crank position for about 5 seconds then it cranked over and started right up. I have noticed this before but usually the cranking is delayed for a second or two at most. It also performs perfectly after truck is warm and has been running.

Truck facts:
94 with 280k, starter contact rebuild about 6 months ago, new fusible links about 2 months ago, new battery ground about 2 years ago, great battery and clean battery posts.

Any ideas?

I had the same exact problem for a year!. It would happen intermittently. It was my battery believe it or not. And it tested good several times.
Since I replaced it....No delayed cranking!

 

[aviator31]

I replaced my battery also, still kept happening. Maddening eh?

 

[cuaround]

Came accross this post.
Starter or Neutral Safety switch

 

[malteserunner]

In my opinion, it's adding a failure point and fixing a symptom rather than the cause.

These rigs are getting old enough that surprising amounts of oxidation can form on terminals, and contacts can become very worn. Those two factors lead to high resistance, which creates heat, which distorts connectors and melts insulation, exacerbating the issue.

I agree that this is adding another possible failure point. In turn, a lot of vehicles use a starter relay, as it takes the load off the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, etc.

I used a Bosch style relay, rather than a Ford solenoid, since I think the solenoid is overkill, and the Bosch relay requires less from the original switches and wiring.

If, in the future, the relay were to fail, it would be simple to bypass and diagnose.

Since this mod, the engine cranks instantly, every time, when the ignition switch hits start.