6th Gen 4Runner news and rumors (2 Viewers)

[TheLCProject]

Same rear suspension, axle, diff.

None of this suggests that the 6th gen 4Runner is any 'beefier' than the PRADO.

This is demonstrably false.

The TrailHunter and TRD Pro will have the same rear differential as the GX550 - which is at least larger in diameter than what is on the US-spec J250. This was discussed ad nauseam elsewhere in these forums (and this thread).

While the easy thing to do is to say since these vehicles are "all the same TNGA-F platform", all is not the same. There are many differences (albeit many quite minor) between the frame, suspension parts, axles, differentials, fuel tanks, etc.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

This is demonstrably false.

The TrailHunter and TRD Pro will have the same rear differential as the GX550 - which is at least larger in diameter than what is on the US-spec J250. This was discussed ad nauseam elsewhere in these forums (and this thread).

While the easy thing to do is to say since these vehicles are "all the same TNGA-F platform", all is not the same. There are many differences (albeit many quite minor) between the frame, suspension parts, axles, differentials, fuel tanks, etc.

Those are special editions, and will only be sold in limited numbers.

If EVERY 4Runner got the same rear axle/diff as the GX550, then that certainly would be a consideration, but if the cost of the those special edition 4Runners are the same as the GX550, or exceeds it, I feel that those will exit the market quickly.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Personal opinion, I much prefer the seating position and visibility of the LC250 (and GX550) to that of the 6G 4Runner. I really like the 4Runner and Tacoma styling and interior BUT the LC is a more upright and visible hood corners, etc... i.e. my personal pick for off-road. I'm hopeful we'll see cool new features and grades with both platforms in the years to come.

 

[Jetboy]

Those are special editions, and will only be sold in limited numbers.

If EVERY 4Runner got the same rear axle/diff as the GX550, then that certainly would be a consideration, but if the cost of the those special edition 4Runners are the same as the GX550, or exceeds it, I feel that those will exit the market quickly.

I think you're right. They'll either drop out of the lineup or sell for well under MSRP. TRD Pro tacoma hybrids are already under MSRP and they've just barely hit dealerships. I've been seeing claims of $20k under MSRP/$7-10k under invoice on Bronco Raptors. I can't see the market price of the Pro or TH holding at $70k. I think they'll be in the mid $50's street price fairly quickly. At that price maybe it's a decent value. An LC250 at $55k plus $5k in suspension seems like it should set a bit of a price cap on the 4Runner TH and Pro models. That's probably what I'd do instead. Heck this dealer is advertising a GX550 OT+ at $61k. https://www.lexusofbridgewater.com/...eel-drive-4d-sport-utility-jtjtbcdx6r5014532/ Not sure if it's legit, but at that price I don't see why I'd go pay $70k for a high spec 4Runner.

 

[TheLCProject]

I think you're right. They'll either drop out of the lineup or sell for well under MSRP. TRD Pro tacoma hybrids are already under MSRP and they've just barely hit dealerships. I've been seeing claims of $20k under MSRP/$7-10k under invoice on Bronco Raptors. I can't see the market price of the Pro or TH holding at $70k. I think they'll be in the mid $50's street price fairly quickly. At that price maybe it's a decent value. An LC250 at $55k plus $5k in suspension seems like it should set a bit of a price cap on the 4Runner TH and Pro models. That's probably what I'd do instead. Heck this dealer is advertising a GX550 OT+ at $61k. https://www.lexusofbridgewater.com/...eel-drive-4d-sport-utility-jtjtbcdx6r5014532/ Not sure if it's legit, but at that price I don't see why I'd go pay $70k for a high spec 4Runner.

I am having a hard time reconciling the opinions above that the TRD Pro is a "special edition" and that it'll be dropped from the lineup. It's been a mainstay in the trim levels for a decade now. TRD Pro is no "Heritage Edition" or "First Edition", in my mind.

TrailHunter, yeah, sure, maybe, because it's new and perhaps it'll flop, and Toyota will back away.

Now, the idea that discounts might be had on either of those trims..that's an idea I agree with and encourage.

 

[Jetboy]

I am having a hard time reconciling the opinions above that the TRD Pro is a "special edition" and that it'll be dropped from the lineup. It's been a mainstay in the trim levels for a decade now. TRD Pro is no "Heritage Edition" or "First Edition", in my mind.

TrailHunter, yeah, sure, maybe, because it's new and perhaps it'll flop, and Toyota will back away.

Now, the idea that discounts might be had on either of those trims..that's an idea I agree with and encourage.

It does seem to be a fairly stable trim option. At least for a the past few years. There doesn't seem to be a lot of long term consistency. It was TTUE or Sport in the 4Runner until 2010, then the TRAIL was a top trim, then TRD Pro came along as an appearance package that otherwise slotted about parallel to Trail and Limited trims, then TRD Pro was upgraded with improved suspension and priced above the limited trim, the Trail became TRD OR and re-introduced a TRAIL trim as an appearance package between sr5 and TRD OR and are now we're adding the Trail Hunter that will probably be confused by some with the Trail trim.

It would be odd to drop the trim after all the marketing hype. I just don't know what happens when no one is buying. Dealers stop ordering and then they have to either drop price or significantly slow production on those trims to match demand? IMO it's just a pricing problem. Toyota has to either be willing to drop the price to put it inline with market value or see the sales drop.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

I am having a hard time reconciling the opinions above that the TRD Pro is a "special edition" and that it'll be dropped from the lineup. It's been a mainstay in the trim levels for a decade now. TRD Pro is no "Heritage Edition" or "First Edition", in my mind.

TrailHunter, yeah, sure, maybe, because it's new and perhaps it'll flop, and Toyota will back away.

Now, the idea that discounts might be had on either of those trims..that's an idea I agree with and encourage.

Heritage Edition, First Edition, and TRD Pro (from previous generations) are badges and bolt on accessories.

Sure, the first year of the HE J200 had a different body stamping because the third row was eliminated, but I think that lasted 1 model year, and a third row was added as an option to the HE (and I bet all later production HE J200s got the same floor pan), I think, because the cost of having a different body stamping for a low volume vehicle for one market was just too expensive.

In the case of the 6th gen 4Runner, It seems to be significantly different than the rest of the line, especially if it's using a different axle. Figuring in import tariffs, the cost of the beefier axle, I don't think they will keep that in the TRD Pro long, especially if this cannibalizes sales of the GX. The TRD Pro might last through the rest of the model run, but I think the beefier axle will go away due to production costs for, again, a low volume vehicle for one market. Badges, bolt on shocks, etc sure.

Of course, this is all conjecture. We will see what happens in the market.

 

[Jetboy]

An alternative would be to improve the content of the vehicle to keep the price tag. If they did a TTv6 4Runner with 35s and Fox suspension, sliders, skids, and a front locker - it would be easier to justify the price and probably justify internally cutting production down with higher margin. That would put it pretty close to a direct competitor with the Bronco Sasquatch or Wranglers that are in that price range. But if they're going to bring a smaller FJ Cruiser to market as well - that would probably be the better vehicle to do a more aggressive build on.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

TRD Pro is not going anywhere, in fact they continue to get better and better features with newer models IMO. The Fox hydraulic bumps in the rear of the Tacoma are rad and could/should be compatible with other similar platforms. Trailhunter is new, and they have put a ton of marketing dollars behind building the name, and dealers are just barely starting to see them in the Tacoma platform and it will be early next year before the 4Runner and later for others. Could it be a one limited offering? Sure... but if it sells, I suspect they will be around for many years. Our closest dealer (Toyota Murray) has a fair number of very basic Tacoma's on their lot, zero of the TRD Pro, TH, TRD OR from my eye passing there today. I suspect they've received them and kicked them right back out the door to those on wait lists. Eventually they will have a few of each grade on the lot, just like the pre-covid days where you could go drive one of every different trim in a few hours at a single lot. I look forward to those days as it makes dealers compete and offer customer service.

I wouldn't call either of them Special Editions but rather halo vehicles that inspire buyers. Toyota is very wise to the fact people head to the dealership wanting a hero color TRD Pro and leave with the white SR5. They will build the TRD Pro and Trailhunter in low percentages compared to the others, I don't know mix numbers but I can try and remember to ask.

 

[Phillyd2]

TRD, Trailhunter, etc. are marketing gimmicks to sell you hundreds of dollars worth of stuff for thousands.

 

[Jetboy]

If Toyota will drop the Land Cruiser - they'll drop a low volume trim package or re-think it too if sales fall enough. They dropped the FJ Cruiser after a big media and marketing push. They even planned to drop the 4Runner entirely. TRD Pro is a pretty meaningless trim package in the long term.

It's a very subjective topic, but I don't see them as halo vehicles. A suspension kit on a high volume model does not a halo make. Bronco DR - that's a halo vehicle. Toyota usually doesn't even try halo vehicles with a few exceptions. The LFA is the only one I can think of in my lifetime that really fits. Maybe the ISF?

I don't think Toyota will drop the TRD Pro name at least as long as "overland" continues to be trendy, but I do think they'll have to drop the price or make it better.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

TRD, Trailhunter, etc. are marketing gimmicks to sell you hundreds of dollars worth of stuff for thousands.

Sweeping & inaccurate generalizations. The TRD Pros seats, Fox adjustable shocks and Fox hydro bumps are certainly worth more than "hundreds of dollars". Likewise the TH's suspension, compressor, snorkel, etc are certainly worth more than "hundreds of dollars". Make no mistake, anyone building their own can save dollars and more precisely build a Tacoma suited by his/her needs but the TRD Pro is extremely fun to drive at speed off road and many find value in the combo, others find value in owning a top grade. To each their own.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

If Toyota will drop the Land Cruiser - they'll drop a low volume trim package or re-think it too if sales fall enough. They dropped the FJ Cruiser after a big media and marketing push. They even planned to drop the 4Runner entirely. TRD Pro is a pretty meaningless trim package in the long term.

It's a very subjective topic, but I don't see them as halo vehicles. A suspension kit on a high volume model does not a halo make. Bronco DR - that's a halo vehicle. Toyota usually doesn't even try halo vehicles with a few exceptions. The LFA is the only one I can think of in my lifetime that really fits. Maybe the ISF?

I don't think Toyota will drop the TRD Pro name at least as long as "overland" continues to be trendy, but I do think they'll have to drop the price or make it better.

Trailhunter is very blatantly aimed at the Overland market craze, zero surprise or secrets there. TRD Pro is not, and more not than ever with the current features.

The rest is as you say, subjective.

 

[Jetboy]

Trailhunter is very blatantly aimed at the Overland market craze, zero surprise or secrets there. TRD Pro is not, and more not than ever with the current features.

The rest is as you say, subjective.

I tend to think they're both targeting the same buyer. Neither model is really intended for the person going to do those things they're ostensibly marketed for. They're for the customer who wants to display the image of doing those things. I'm not sure the difference between them actually matters to the typical buyer. I don't think it'll move the needle on sales volume having 2 of the same thing vs 1.

 

[TheLCProject]

How do you figure? It's literally the same platform.
Same engine/hybrid system.
Same transmission.
Same front suspension and differential
Same rear suspension, axle, diff.
Same frame.

Seems to me that the primary difference between the 4Runner and the J250 is the 4Runner has a lower roof height, choice of Full time 4wd or part time 4wd, and you can option the 4Runner non-hybrid.

None of this suggests that the 6th gen 4Runner is any 'beefier' than the PRADO.

Per Dissent (@benc ) it sounds like the Tacoma (and presumably the 4Runner) and GX have "better" (more travel, bigger, higher angle, better overall) front CV axles than the Land Cruiser (timestamped for you).



@TWILLY

 

[ryanjl]

To be clear, I have nothing to do with Dissent. I just happened to see the video right after it was posted to youtube.

 

[TheLCProject]

To be clear, I have nothing to do with Dissent. I just happened to see the video right after it was posted to youtube.

Thanks - edited the tag from you back to Ben up above. My bad.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Per Dissent (@benc ) it sounds like the Tacoma (and presumably the 4Runner) and GX have "better" (more travel, bigger, higher angle, better overall) front CV axles than the Land Cruiser (timestamped for you).



@TWILLY

So, the premium tier vehicle, Land Cruiser, needs to be upgraded out of the box to make it do what the 'light duty' vehicles do out of the box.
Got it. That's disappointing.

 

[TheLCProject]

So, the premium tier vehicle, Land Cruiser, needs to be upgraded out of the box to make it do what the 'light duty' vehicles do out of the box.
Got it. That's disappointing.

Now you get it.

A lot of us were drawn to Land Cruisers because they represented the absolute best that Toyota would and could produce.

 

[Diff Kraken]

You can see the various trims in this video posted today from a dealer event: