550 / 250 or an Inoes? (14 Viewers)

[krice118]

They're all functionally the same thing with different skins. Just that the GX550 has more commonality with the LC300 GR Sport than the LC250 models have with the LC300. The GX shares the same TTv6 engine and 10AT transmission along with E-KDSS that is the same as the LC300 GR Sport. The front suspension on the GX is also laid out more like the LC300. This is getting a bit into the weeds, but the LC300 front strut attaches with a single sheer post on the front of the lower control arm and is not protected and has the sway bar in front of the front suspension. That is the same with the GX550. The LC250 and Tacoma have the front sway bar located behind the front control arms and higher mounted - the sway bar ends are also above the control arm and protected. The LC250 front coilover lower mount is in a double sheer boxed mount with a through bolt that is protected from the rocks and trail obstacles. The LC250 design is going to be more robust for playing in more technical terrain. The sway bar on the back allows the front end to be shortened and improve the approach angle. The LC300 design is also fine. But it's just not built like you'd design it to go rock crawling as compared to the LC250/Tacoma. 300 is tilted a bit more toward highway use.

Anyway - there's a lot of subtle variation between all of them and they mix and match the parts bin. The new Tacoma has 17 different frames. The MT version has a different rear cross member than the AT version because of the axle hop in the manual. I'd guess there's similar variations between the 300, LX, GX, and LC250 but I don't know all of them. The plus side of all of the options is that the GX550 Overtrail is significantly cheaper than a GR Sport LC300, so you get everything except the front locking diff for a lot less $. And the 4Runner TRD Pro and Overtrail will have even better suspension for off road use probably for even less money.

This is pure speculation, but my guess is the only thing we probably can't get out of the box is an E-KDSS model with adjustable bypass shocks. But I think we'll see most of the tacoma stuff on the next gen 4Runner - like OEM high lift jack points, fox adjustable bypass shocks, bolt on 35s, etc. I suspect the 4Runner will go one increment further toward the specialty off road end of the spectrum than the LC250 like the 4Runner has historically and the new Tacoma does. It's also very possible that the front locker option is saved as a 4Runner option vs going in the LC250. Since it's already an option in the 300 on most trims, that's the only good explanation I can come up with as to why it's not offered in the LC250.

This was extremely helpful. Thanks for all the supplemental information.

 

[Brown98LC]

I imagine anyone with access to parts ordering system could check right? That was from June of this year. The claim was that it was then currently showing 110 V35A engines in transit and back ordered. (I was guessing long blocks - I can't imagine Toyota would just swap the short block if it's a major internal bearing failure. You'd contaminate the whole engine with metal shavings, but sometimes they skimp on warranty repair so maybe it's short blocks?) Seems like they are mostly all ending up being main or rod bearing failures. I suspect it's either a design defect or a manufacturing problem in the oiling to the rod bearings. It's a relatively small amount - but enough that it's becoming a well known issue on the engine in the Tundra side.

You don't have to look far to find a lot of new tundras looking like this:
View attachment 3494442View attachment 3494444View attachment 3494446View attachment 3494447

same issues happening in the Middle East on some 300s.

 

[OGBeno]

same issues happening in the Middle East on some 300s.

Are there real numbers of toasted engines that need replacement?

More than an N=10-100? Per market, per vehicle platform?

 

[GeorgeN]

@gocougs - I shared my thoughts in this post. Please try to drive the IG on the road too, it might not be the perfect truck for you. If you spend some time on the Ineos forum you will see there are a fair amount of bugs with this first year batch. Less impressed after the test - https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/less-impressed-after-the-test.12413664/

 

[numby]

I read the assessment above. I've been looking a bit at the Ineos over the past year while waiting to see what Toyota had in store for the 4Runner or new Land Cruiser (250). I've done several test drives. I disagree with almost every complaint in the post. Without having driven the LC I'd pick te Ineos over the 4runner if I had to choose. $75,000 is a lot for one with lockers and a few extras though.

 

[mkennedy009]

...$75,000 is a lot for one with lockers and a few extras though.

Yeah, that is not really the price. If you go to the web site an build one, the price is closer to $90K. My basic build was, no lockers, no leather, no safari windows. I cancelled my order due to the price and the real world fuel economy. The LC makes more sense since I have to drive long distances to have fun. I can buy a LC with Alu-cab and be close to the cost of the IG, well maybe in the future...

 

[onemanarmy]

Yea...they got all those deposits and preorders on the back of the $50-60k price point

'proved' the market demand on false advertising

Lame

 

[numby]

Yeah, that is not really the price. If you go to the web site an build one, the price is closer to $90K. My basic build was, no lockers, no leather, no safari windows. I cancelled my order due to the price and the real world fuel economy. The LC makes more sense since I have to drive long distances to have fun. I can buy a LC with Alu-cab and be close to the cost of the IG, well maybe in the future...

You have no idea what you're talking about. I just ran the numbers again.

$71,500 - Base price
$2,250 - Lockers
$535 - Heated seats
$580 - Heritage Blue paint. (Oops - Eldoret blue. Not like Toyota is copying or anything.)

$74,865 - Total.

Head over to Wilsonville and do a test drive. It's free. You decide.

 

[numby]

Yea...they got all those deposits and preorders on the back of the $50-60k price point

'proved' the market demand on false advertising

Lame

Some in Europe and Australia got in for mid $60K but the price did go up with inflation/Ukraine war/raw material shortages for the second year models which is what you get in the U.S.. They had several parts contracted with Ukranian companies supposedly. Ineos is a private company. They didn't need to prove market demand. Their model is based on selling 30,000 units a year tops.

I won't argue that it's a safer bet than buying from a major global retailer like Ford or anything, but it is the vehicle that many here in the forums wish the could get from Toyota in the States. The new 250 doesn't appear to be a 70. The Ineos is close.

 

[mkennedy009]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I just ran the numbers again.

$71,500 - Base price
$2,250 - Lockers
$535 - Heated seats
$580 - Heritage Blue paint. (Oops - Eldoret blue. Not like Toyota is copying or anything.)

$74,865 - Total.

Head over to Wilsonville and do a test drive. It's free. You decide.

my bad, when I had my reservation you could not get the base. I did build the base, added heated seats, Power panel(cuz you have to have it), second battery, 400w power take off, cargo divider to keep the dogs in the back, tow hitch, Saddle Leather Driver's Pack (wanted something nice), Blue white top and red ladder frame(total cool factor)
Total price: $81,805.00
Still, $81K, i go on a lot of adventures in the LC with the monies I 'save'.

 

[numby]

Champagne tastes will have you in 200 series territory real quick.

 

[onemanarmy]

Yea...I'll take the base
No leather
No heated seats
No second battery
No douche accents

$60k and they have a buyer

 

[M1911]

Thank you for all of your great advice and opinions!



This would be my daily driver with minimal off-road trips and more driving my kids all over WA state for basketball and volleyball tournaments! I'm leaning towards waiting to see what happens over the next few years. One nice thing is if I do decide to get the Ineos I only live 5 miles from the Seattle dealership.

Why in the world would you want a vehicle with a solid front axle as a daily driver?

 

[TWILLY]

It always ticked me off that they didn't sell a lower rent version of the 200 series here. I feel like they could have had one that was priced a little cheaper than the Sequoia and, if they had, there would probably be one in my garage right now.

I was really hoping this new US Land Cruiser would be a cheaper version of the GX with the twin turbo V6. Considering you could get an F150 crew cab 4x4 with a 3.5L Ecoboost and 10 speed auto for <$50k, I was holding out hope that we might see the iforce V6 in a sub $50k SUV.

With the 200, Toyota force-fed needless luxury bloat to the US market—ultimately a failure that was well earned.

 

[stonepa]

Why in the world would you want a vehicle with a solid front axle as a daily driver?

If i could get a ‘sort of’ modern (airbags, strong disc brakes, and coil springs) but brand new version of the FJ60, 4 speed, basic, with a solid front axle, I’d buy it and daily it with no hesitation. But then I have owned an FJ60 since 1987 and drove it as my daily for 12 years. i like the feel of the road. I like the heaviness of the steering. And it feels like it is ready for adventure.

 

[onemanarmy]

Why in the world would you want a vehicle with a solid front axle as a daily driver?

ask the millions of TJ/XJ/WJ/JK/JL/JT drivers

 

[onemanarmy]

If i could get a ‘sort of’ modern (airbags, strong disc brakes, and coil springs) but brand new version of the FJ60, 4 speed, basic, with a solid front axle, I’d buy it and daily it with no hesitation. But then I have owned an FJ60 since 1987 and drove it as my daily for 12 years. i like the feel of the road. I like the heaviness of the steering. And it feels like it is ready for adventure.

an FJ60 with the tried and true 4.0 V6 w/ 6 speed manual along with stronger A pillars, 2 airbags and 16" wheels/bigger brakes gets me going!
dont change anything else!
and we'd get a tailgate!

 

[M1911]

ask the millions of TJ/XJ/WJ/JK/JL/JT drivers

Yes, Jeep sells tons of them. It makes no sense to me for a daily driver. 90% of the time you are on paved roads. Even if you ignore Jeep death wobble, the solid front axle drives, rides, and steers like crap. You simply can't get around the bad physics of increased unsprung weight and the lack of independent front suspesnion (where the motion of one wheel on an axle affects the other wheel).

If I lived in Moab, OK, sure. But for most of us living in suburbia, it simply makes no sense. It's just posing.

 

[M1911]

an FJ60 with the tried and true 4.0 V6 w/ 6 speed manual along with stronger A pillars, 2 airbags and 16" wheels/bigger brakes gets me going!
dont change anything else!
and we'd get a tailgate!

It would need a lot more than a couple airbags to meet modern crash safety. There is a reason that modern vehicles have much more distance between the outer door skin and the passenger's outboard shoulder -- side-impact safety

 

[onemanarmy]

ok...beefy B pillars too

cloth manual seats...Toyota already makes
manual windows and locks (fj60 parts)
SFA/SRA....(fj60 parts)
coils and linkages....fj80 parts
manual trans (6 speed tacoma part)
manual t case...toyota already makes
no complex/expensive/heavy turbos or hybrid or battery
no integrated screens
simple dial/slider HVAC
single DIN radio and 4 speaker (upgrade if you want)
simple round, $20 headlights and taillights (fj60 headlights and taillights)
fj60 column stalks for lights
no radar and lidar or auto anything
slider cargo windows (fj60 parts)
tailgate/liftgate (fj60 parts)
.....you get the point

modern FJ60! that meets crash standards and costs far less (by resuing as many parts bin items that have already been designed, engineered, and have suppliers for)

you could knock off $10k easy in lights, stereo, screens, cameras, 5 zone HVAC, 17 crawl modes, and all the associated engineering, wiring, designing, manufacturing, assembling and testing...probabaly more like $15k

who needs these halo, glimmering, flashback, dancing, fully integrated $1k each headlights and taillights anyway?

sorry for the rant