Depends what your use case is. The GX550 offers a solid value prop to me over the 460 or 470. Enough to drop $70K+ on one? IDK, but it does check almost every single box I have. But Im not sure there is any vehicle I would pay $70k for because my wife and I are cheapskates. I had to argue with her to get her to buy a $20000 GX460 instead of a $14000 1st Gen Sequoia so I think our heads would explode at the thought of dropping $70k on a vehicle.
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I dont understand this. It seems like the lines have completely blurred between the "Prado" and Land Cruiser with this generation and that the 250 designation just seems to be a formality. The chassis and dimensions(track width and wheelbase) of both the US Land Cruiser and GX550 are the same as the 300 series/LX600. I think even the axles and(in the case of the GX550) the entire powertrain is the same as the 300 series. The 150 and 200 series had extremely clear differences and were entirely different platforms.
Is there actually meaningful differences between a 250 and 300? Are the chassis substantially different despite being the same dimensions and both based on TNGA-F? Because, at least on paper, it seems like the only major differences are the engine/transmissions and different sheet metal. And it terms of components, it certainly seems like the GX550 is more in line with the 300 series than the US Land Cruiser. EKDSS, TTV6, 10 speed, etc. I dont care what they call it, but the GX550 seems to be the US market's version of the 300 series that the rest of the world gets.
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For me - the only Bronco I kind of want and I can't really explain it other than I think it looks cool and would be fun for local daily driving in the summer is the Bronco Heritage 2 door in red. I really have no reason to have it. But I still want one.
According to a translation of japanese - they're the same rolling chassis with minor differences to suit the different bodies and powertrains. I don't speak Japanese so I'm taking the translation at face value. But I don't know if it's true.
I think you're right that the GX550 with EKDSS is very similar to the LC300 GR Sport minus a front locker on the GR Sport that the GX doesn't get. The only other difference that I can tell is that some LC300's have an electric assisted hydraulic steering rack that is optional on some trims while the LX600 (I think?) and the GX/LC250s are using a full electric power steering system. Not sure if one is better than the other or why they chose to use both in different models. A base model LC300 starts in global markets around $47k USD, so there's also significant overlap in pricing between the LC300 range from $47-130k and the LC250 variants that will range from probably mid $30s to $85k.
It always ticked me off that they didn't sell a lower rent version of the 200 series here. I feel like they could have had one that was priced a little cheaper than the Sequoia and, if they had, there would probably be one in my garage right now.
I was really hoping this new US Land Cruiser would be a cheaper version of the GX with the twin turbo V6. Considering you could get an F150 crew cab 4x4 with a 3.5L Ecoboost and 10 speed auto for <$50k, I was holding out hope that we might see the iforce V6 in a sub $50k SUV.
Yep but you can buy a 200 today. That 250? You’ll be lucky to take possession of one before 2025. Maybe 2026.
The GX and the new Land Cruiser are different trims of the same chassis designated 250
Similar to the 100 / 200 series being made up of LX470/570 and the Land Cruiser.
And Yes in the old designation Land Cruiser was the 100/200 heavier duty LC vs the prado in other markets.
Now for the US the Land Cruiser is the LC Prado they just dropped the Prado.
Similar to the 100 / 200 series being made up of LX470/570 and the Land Cruiser.
And Yes in the old designation Land Cruiser was the 100/200 heavier duty LC vs the prado in other markets.
Now for the US the Land Cruiser is the LC Prado they just dropped the Prado.
I agree, but mine would need to be speced with the 7 speed manual.
The last Gen there was a big difference in build between the light duty 150 and HD 200. Basically nothing was shared.
The 300 sand 250 are the same chassis with some minor variation and same running gear with the difference between them being the body and powertrain. But the GX550 and 300 are nearly identical except for the body.
It's a pretty big departure from past generations where the Prado was lighter duty. Not anymore. There's a lot of overlap now. Even the engines overlap. 300 gets 4.0 V6, T6 gas and T6 Diesel, 250 gets 2.7L 4cyl, T4 Gas and diesel, T4 Gas hybrid and Diesel hybrid, and T6 gas.
I'm not sure why there are both vehicles. But I'm glad they're offering most options in the range in the USA.
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This is called “design rationalization.” Par for the course across all manufacturers, globally.
Has been happening for eons now and just has finally caught up to the Land Cruiser series of vehicles as Toyota has rationalized the BOF vehicles.
The real outlier is the 7x. And we shall see how long that one continues.
Has been happening for eons now and just has finally caught up to the Land Cruiser series of vehicles as Toyota has rationalized the BOF vehicles.
The real outlier is the 7x. And we shall see how long that one continues.
I want to drive one first, but I could be in for the manual.
Seems like a misnomer in this case.
Hard to understand why it's rational 5 models of the same thing. Whatever the case, I'm glad to see more range in offerings for the USA.
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I want to drive one first, but I could be in for the manual.
Seems like a misnomer in this case.
Thats what I dont get. There is going to be so much overlap between the various trucks, especially if they bring a 4Runner out too, that its gunna be wild. But maybe because they are all so closely related they are able to make smaller numbers of more variants. IDK.
I think this encapsulates my question: if the lines are that blurred between the 250/300 does the 300 still have the engineering philosophy of a 25 year vehicle? And to that end, does the 250 share the same degree of engineering?
Are you saying the GX550 and 300 series are more related than the new Land Cruiser 250?
It was my understanding the 250 was the USA Land Cruiser (Prado in other markets) and the GX550.
Much more related. It's not even a close call. The USA LC is only on the list because Toyota marketing put it there. It will be a fine and capable enough SUV on its own merits but deserved it's own name.
I don't think we'll know for another 20 years. I think the general answer would be that the 300 rolling chassis is equal to or better than the LC200. Engines and transmission are TBD. I see a lot of spun main bearings in the V35A tundras. Someone on the Tundra forum said that they looked in Toyota's parts ordering system and there was a current back long of over 100 long blocks on order. That's not ideal. But I also don't know how many 5.7s failed in the first year. The 5.7 isn't really the pinnacle of engine reliability either. I don't know if that's a similar issue in the LC300 or just the tundra.
I would be pretty confident in saying that an LC300 with the 1GR or a LC250 with the 2TR-FE will both last as long as an LC200. And probably more durable and reliable than an LC100 or any generation prior to that.
They're all functionally the same thing with different skins. Just that the GX550 has more commonality with the LC300 GR Sport than the LC250 models have with the LC300. The GX shares the same TTv6 engine and 10AT transmission along with E-KDSS that is the same as the LC300 GR Sport. The front suspension on the GX is also laid out more like the LC300. This is getting a bit into the weeds, but the LC300 front strut attaches with a single sheer post on the front of the lower control arm and is not protected and has the sway bar in front of the front suspension. That is the same with the GX550. The LC250 and Tacoma have the front sway bar located behind the front control arms and higher mounted - the sway bar ends are also above the control arm and protected. The LC250 front coilover lower mount is in a double sheer boxed mount with a through bolt that is protected from the rocks and trail obstacles. The LC250 design is going to be more robust for playing in more technical terrain. The sway bar on the back allows the front end to be shortened and improve the approach angle. The LC300 design is also fine. But it's just not built like you'd design it to go rock crawling as compared to the LC250/Tacoma. 300 is tilted a bit more toward highway use.
Anyway - there's a lot of subtle variation between all of them and they mix and match the parts bin. The new Tacoma has 17 different frames. The MT version has a different rear cross member than the AT version because of the axle hop in the manual. I'd guess there's similar variations between the 300, LX, GX, and LC250 but I don't know all of them. The plus side of all of the options is that the GX550 Overtrail is significantly cheaper than a GR Sport LC300, so you get everything except the front locking diff for a lot less $. And the 4Runner TRD Pro and Overtrail will have even better suspension for off road use probably for even less money.
This is pure speculation, but my guess is the only thing we probably can't get out of the box is an E-KDSS model with adjustable bypass shocks. But I think we'll see most of the tacoma stuff on the next gen 4Runner - like OEM high lift jack points, fox adjustable bypass shocks, bolt on 35s, etc. I suspect the 4Runner will go one increment further toward the specialty off road end of the spectrum than the LC250 like the 4Runner has historically and the new Tacoma does. It's also very possible that the front locker option is saved as a 4Runner option vs going in the LC250. Since it's already an option in the 300 on most trims, that's the only good explanation I can come up with as to why it's not offered in the LC250.
I'd be interested in seeing corroboration of a claim like this by providing Parts Master Inquiry data showing said backorder information.
Sounds dubious to me.
I imagine anyone with access to parts ordering system could check right? That was from June of this year. The claim was that it was then currently showing 110 V35A engines in transit and back ordered. (I was guessing long blocks - I can't imagine Toyota would just swap the short block if it's a major internal bearing failure. You'd contaminate the whole engine with metal shavings, but sometimes they skimp on warranty repair so maybe it's short blocks?) Seems like they are mostly all ending up being main or rod bearing failures. I suspect it's either a design defect or a manufacturing problem in the oiling to the rod bearings. It's a relatively small amount - but enough that it's becoming a well known issue on the engine in the Tundra side.
You don't have to look far to find a lot of new tundras looking like this:
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