No need to renovate my 1987 FJ60. I just keep driving it, atleast in the summer when it isn’t buried under a huge pile of snow. It just keeps trucking.
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Sounds like that's a case of an inexperienced drivers taking their rigs where they never should have gone
. Did they have any legitimate need to go there, or where they just wheeling for run?I'd never take my rig in 1.5 ft of snow, frankly if I had a SFA rig on 37s I'd stay at home too to not but myself at risk or others at risk trying to rescue me. Either way, you can't make the argument that "IFS is not good" when the driver's grossly exceeded the capability of their vehicles.
Edit: For the record, I totally agree that SFA is a stronger and more capable for hardcore wheeling. My argument is that IFS is better in just about every other situation, and that's where my rig and most of the rigs on this forum spend the vast majority of their miles.
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Either F250 or a Power Wagon would be way too big for trails east of the 100th meridian. Lots of potential for body damage and whacking trees, as well as extensive pinstriping. Putting one on 37s would make it even worse (you should see how rough the clearcoat is on the top of my GX from branches) Maybe out west where the trails are bigger they'd be fine, but I'd honestly pick a Jeep for a wheeling rig over a HD truck (as they're basically the same size as a 4Runner/GX).You can buy them all day long at $60k. Maybe ineos can be negotiated down too. Not sure. Just looking at real world prices, you can also get a base model diesel RAM or Ford hd solid axle 4x4 crew cab for about $55k and add lockers to get pretty similar capabilities for about $60k. For $70k it would be easy to setup a new base f250 or Powerwagon with lockers, snorkel, winch, 37s, ready to go explore.
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I also don't know where you are seeing diesels for $55k, around here it's hard to touch a gas model for under $60K and diesels are $70K+.
And you'll work on it all the time. I'm well aware of what it takes to keep an older rig on the road. There's no way to deny the age of those vehicles. 40s, 45s, 55s, & 60s are nothing special in that regard. They rust if take them through the car wash. You have to keep a stash of obsolete parts in the back of the shop. They require constant tinkering and adjustmnt because they were designed that way. I've had my share and still daily a 40. They were never made to the standards that POS subarus are today. We love them in spite of their faults.
And for those that are afraid an Ineos offering will be made in low numbers, just remember that there were only about 5000 fj40s sold in North America per year. That was back when Toyota was still a fairly small company. Should no one have bought them?
Well I’ve owned it since 1987, drove about 20k miles a year for the first 12 years I owned it (until replaced by a new 100 in late 1998) and now I drive it occasionally for fun. Not much in the way of rust except for rock chips even though it lives about 50 feet from the Pacific Ocean. Only challenges I have are with the stupid choke cable kinking frequently and the leaky exhaust manifold. And my windshield looks like someone shot it with a shotgun. Original powertrain. 3rd clutch I think. It has been a great vehicle.
Around here there are a fair number of 60s and a few 55s being daily driven. We have some good mechanics.
I am under the impression that a 76 series is substantially more than that and, again, you can't get it new here. Ever.
They are a throwaway vehicle in hard use markets like Africa and South America. Their roofs collapse like tin foil origami. The junk yards are littered with them in third world countries. The track widths front to rear are completely different and nobody likes driving them for any distance without aftermarket seating.
Would I buy one? Absolutely! But I can't. That's why I looked at the Ineos. Most Mudders should probably stick with the 250 to avoid the flames.
Most mudders don’t buy new cars anyway so not sure why we even having this conversation.
It's actually way less than $60k starting price in Japan. Base model is $32,343 USD.I am under the impression that a 76 series is substantially more than that and, again, you can't get it new here. Ever.
They are a throwaway vehicle in hard use markets like Africa and South America. Their roofs collapse like tin foil origami. The junk yards are littered with them in third world countries. The track widths front to rear are completely different and nobody likes driving them for any distance without aftermarket seating.
Would I buy one? Absolutely! But I can't. That's why I looked at the Ineos. Most Mudders should probably stick with the 250 to avoid the flames.
Toyota Re-introduces the Land Cruiser "70" in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/40139890.html (base MSRP is at the bottom).
A base model lc76 with the 2.8L diesel for $33k would sell faster than they could ever supply them in the USA market.
Australia prices are inclusive of a lot of taxes and fees that wouldn't normally be part of MSRP.
True. It’d rearrange the market segment.
Global market base spec prices always offer a painful perspective US LC trims and pricing. More enthusiasts should understand that difference.
The grenadier is about 3 inches narrower. That matters in some places. Just depends a on the terrain. The grenadier isn't exactly a compact trail weapon. The wheelbase matters too.
In North America there aren't many places that Ive been that a grenadier on 31.5s would go that a Powerwagon on 37s wouldn't. But I can think of a lot where the PW would go where the grenadier wouldn't.
Neither one would be my choice. Mostly just pointing to available HD trucks with solid axles available for 60k as a reference that it is possible to manufacturer for that price point. The $32,500 base lc76 is probably the better example. Either way - very doable for a major mfg to build at that price.
On our trails here, it literally comes down to snaking between trees with a few inches on each side, and often above. The HD truck literally won't fit unless you break out the chainsaw and start clearing. Most of our wheeling around here is down by side-by-sides, so the trails are getting narrower and narrower. I carry a M18 sawzall in my GX and have had to break it out and clear on numerous occasions.
Its crazy for me coming from an open desert without trees to even imagine how you guys fit those large land cruisers in those forest trails crawling up those big rocks.
Definitely wouldn't be my first choice but I see how the more challenging it is - the funner it can be.
Definitely wouldn't be my first choice but I see how the more challenging it is - the funner it can be.
The old 3rd gen 4Runners, 1st gen Tacomas etc, and other smaller Toyotas do really well in those types of trails, along older Jeeps like the XJ, TJ, etc. Newer Jeeps are basically the same size as the 120/150 platform, while the Gladiator is quite a bit bigger. I pretty rarely see full-size trucks on our trails, when I do they are total beaters. It's literally 75%+ side-by-sides on our trails here (which - for giggles - are IFS and IRS
).My 120 does fit, it's just often tight and I have tons of pinstripes, plus I need to cut trees or snake through very carefully.
I learned to drive a manual 1960 Falcon. It was redone by 1986. the 389 was smooth and the Hurst 4 speed was awesome. Rough go for the first few startups. That was a race car, compared to my 1971 Cutlass Supreme.
Last week in Scottsdale, the Barrett Jackson auctions were held. People arrived from all over the globe in Gulfstreams to buy hundreds of millions of dollars in old cars and trucks. They didn’t seem to think these old cars and trucks sucked at all.
I saw two INEOS Grenadiers there and they looked impressive. I am going to arrange a test drive.
I saw two INEOS Grenadiers there and they looked impressive. I am going to arrange a test drive.
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I'm sure a very, very small percentage of those cars are being daily-driven. Most will likely sit in climate-controlled storage other than the occasional cruise or car show.
My high-school ride was a 1972 Chevy C-10 (ochre and white with a hopped-up 350 probably making similar power as my hopped-up 2UZ-FE
). Fun truck at the time but I have zero interest in daily-driving anything older than the mid-90s. I remember a passenger once hitting their head on the dashboard when I had to do a panic stop due to it having only lap belts. I later put a set of junkyard 3-point belts in it out of a S10, but either way old vehicles are pretty unsafe.
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I thought it was only in Europe that people were inclined to DD vintage cars because many consider it chic to do so. But Scottsdale is full of gorgeous collector cars on the roads as well. I was in the Bay Area recently and the same thing is true. Saw a Speedster on the Golden Gate Bridge. I have never been to Missouri so maybe things are different there.
We have lots of car shows and a robust car culture, but they generally aren't daily driven outside of a special occasions. Beyond the safety considerations, I would not want to risk an irreplaceable classic getting hit by a distracted driver anyway.