Ah, you see what I did thereLOL Let’s try to avoid the cardinal sin of taking ourselves too seriously but kudos on using ‘ignorant’ and ‘dick’ while objecting to ‘kids’. Well done there
. Fun huh. No response to the lesson however…
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. Fun huh. No response to the lesson however…
It has a major step up over the EV startups like Rivian and Lucid who may or not make it and it's being subsidized by the rest of Ineos which seems to be a profitable business. But, if this isn't profitable for them in a few years I'm sure it would be cut, and they'd have limited incentive to offer parts in the future.The brand was started by a billionaire, not some tech geeks who have no business acumen. I have hopes (call it wishful thinking or ignorance) that this will be a successful brand.
Ah, you see what I did there
No response to the lesson however…
I never considered being over sensitive as fun but I also don’t like hockey either so different strokes…… The important thing is for everyone to be brave in these uncertain times.
OP made zero mention of his/her use case.
So everyone is left to guess.
Me, I've been an early adopter on a few vehicles. Sometimes it works out. A lot of times, it doesn't. I only do cheap old stuff now. Simply toss it when it becomes unfeasible to keep running at a standard which is acceptible to me.
The concern for service and repair is an absolutely valid one. Claiming that access to part #s is a proxy for dealer/mfg support is comical. Seriously. Mechanics have become VERY SELECTIVE in what they'll touch these days. If you haven't experienced it, then you're either still riding a new car warranty or do your own wrenching.
So everyone is left to guess.
Me, I've been an early adopter on a few vehicles. Sometimes it works out. A lot of times, it doesn't. I only do cheap old stuff now. Simply toss it when it becomes unfeasible to keep running at a standard which is acceptible to me.
The concern for service and repair is an absolutely valid one. Claiming that access to part #s is a proxy for dealer/mfg support is comical. Seriously. Mechanics have become VERY SELECTIVE in what they'll touch these days. If you haven't experienced it, then you're either still riding a new car warranty or do your own wrenching.
Pretty sure nobody made the claim that going down to the local well stocked dealer wasn’t preferable – even as a joke. But again, that wasn't the hypothetical being discussed, by me anyway.
I have 4 vehicles, boats, ATVs, tractors and motorcycles and none of them go to a dealership for service – I guess I’m lucky that we have so many good local shops compared to Northern VA that it's never been an issue. Recently I did need to wait a few weeks to get a trim switch replaced by a local mom & pop shop, which was annoying but we managed.
With the 250, Toyota is actually building the relatively affordable utility wagon that the Grenadier was supposed to have been.
I really like the idea and design of the Grenadier, but its range is poor and parts availability is a problem, at least for now. Time will tell about reliability; on one hand, it's a wholly new manufacturer, on the other hand, many of its major components are well proven in other applications.
While it's sure nice to look at, I'd sooner take an old Chevy truck on a Mexican dirt tour.
I really like the idea and design of the Grenadier, but its range is poor and parts availability is a problem, at least for now. Time will tell about reliability; on one hand, it's a wholly new manufacturer, on the other hand, many of its major components are well proven in other applications.
While it's sure nice to look at, I'd sooner take an old Chevy truck on a Mexican dirt tour.
They're made by a company called Carraro. That's the only information I can find. No idea what size anything is. I think if we're lucky parts will at least available by mail order for a while.
If it were more like an ICON with Dana axles that would give me a bit more confidence in finding parts when I need em.
I can't see any reason to buy the ineos over an lc250 or GX550. I think they'll do everything better. And cheaper to buy and own.
- Thread starter
- #28
Thank you for all of your great advice and opinions!
This would be my daily driver with minimal off-road trips and more driving my kids all over WA state for basketball and volleyball tournaments! I'm leaning towards waiting to see what happens over the next few years. One nice thing is if I do decide to get the Ineos I only live 5 miles from the Seattle dealership.
This would be my daily driver with minimal off-road trips and more driving my kids all over WA state for basketball and volleyball tournaments! I'm leaning towards waiting to see what happens over the next few years. One nice thing is if I do decide to get the Ineos I only live 5 miles from the Seattle dealership.
I wouldn't get one as a daily driver, unless you have a backup vehicle.
I have a fun vehicle from a small mfg, and even though I do all of my own work, sometimes I am waiting on parts from Italy for months.
I admittedly know very little if anything about BMW motors… so motor used is same one used in latest gen Supra?
www.alexsautohaus.com
BMW B58 Common Problems - Alex's Autohaus - European Auto Repair in Salt Lake City, Utah
The B58 has become one of the best and most reliable performance platforms out there, but there are a few common issues you should be aware of.
www.alexsautohaus.com
A new $100K vehicle would presumably have a warranty and require dealer service for any issues during that warranty period (being a brand new vehicle from a brand new manufacturer, new supply chains, new production facility and staff, there is the potential for them to have a lot of issues). Having only a handful of nationwide dealers really limits the repair ability outside of that - and for non-dealer repairs it gets into the issue of who pays for it, is the work warranted, etc. It's a big question mark in my mind unless Ineos has figured that out already.
Personally I do all of my own wrenching and only take my rigs into the shop for free or warranty service (my wife's Highlander) or tires/alignments. That includes fixing things on the side of the road, when that needs to happen. Looks like the Ineos is supposed to be easy to service/work on. However there is no way I would pay $100K for a vehicle that I then have to wrench on during the warranty period due to the nearest dealer being hundreds of miles away. Wrenching on my $10K Lexus on the other hand, that is no big deal
.Another potential knock on the Ineos is the power/weight ratio - looks like the curb weight is close to 6K pounds but it only has 288 hp. No thanks - I see this being a sluggish rig with really bad fuel economy. For the $100K price tag I'd take a 200 over it and the 100 extra HP any day of the week. I understand they probably chose the BMW turbo 6 since it is a European vehicle but they should have gone with a GM V8 for this side of the pond for power/MPG/serviceability.
A new $100K vehicle would presumably have a warranty and require dealer service for any issues during that warranty period (being a brand new vehicle from a brand new manufacturer, new supply chains, new production facility and staff, there is the potential for them to have a lot of issues). Having only a handful of nationwide dealers really limits the repair ability outside of that - and for non-dealer repairs it gets into the issue of who pays for it, is the work warranted, etc. It's a big question mark in my mind unless Ineos has figured that out already.
Personally I do all of my own wrenching and only take my rigs into the shop for free or warranty service (my wife's Highlander) or tires/alignments. That includes fixing things on the side of the road, when that needs to happen. Looks like the Ineos is supposed to be easy to service/work on. However there is no way I would pay $100K for a vehicle that I then have to wrench on during the warranty period due to the nearest dealer being hundreds of miles away. Wrenching on my $10K Lexus on the other hand, that is no big deal
Another potential knock on the Ineos is the power/weight ratio - looks like the curb weight is close to 6K pounds but it only has 288 hp. No thanks - I see this being a sluggish rig with really bad fuel economy. For the $100K price tag I'd take a 200 over it and the 100 extra HP any day of the week. I understand they probably chose the BMW turbo 6 since it is a European vehicle but they should have gone with a GM V8 for this side of the pond for power/MPG/serviceability.
Just to be clear, nobody is trying to talk anyone into buying one - nor is anyone being their cheerleader. There was a specific point that was already addressed.
The other question that should be debated is your insurance company's position on this vehicle. INEOS has no data to drive any of their underwriting/pricing models without making very aggressive/conservative assumptions. I suspect it would be VERY EXPENSIVE to have the car repaired, which obviously drives your premium costs. Granted, if you can pay 100k for a vehicle, insuring the vehicle may not be in the top 10 things to care about.
I know many electric vehicle owners (esp the Rivian crowd who attempt to use their vehicles for their purposes) have come into very unexpectedly, shocking repair bills for minor body damage.
ETA...there is so much stuff hanging off and bolted to that vehicle that it's screaming "rip me off and cause more damage"....this thing will look fantastic at the Starbucks drive through.
Will fit in nicely with the Braraptor, Raptors, Defenders, and the occasionally lost G55 AMG....yes, I'll be in line w/ the rest of them!
I know many electric vehicle owners (esp the Rivian crowd who attempt to use their vehicles for their purposes) have come into very unexpectedly, shocking repair bills for minor body damage.
ETA...there is so much stuff hanging off and bolted to that vehicle that it's screaming "rip me off and cause more damage"....this thing will look fantastic at the Starbucks drive through.
Will fit in nicely with the Braraptor, Raptors, Defenders, and the occasionally lost G55 AMG....yes, I'll be in line w/ the rest of them!
Yes, same motor in the Supra, Z4, and all of the 40i BMW models. IIRC Toyota helped develop the engine because of its use in the Supra.I admittedly know very little if anything about BMW motors… so motor used is same one used in latest gen Supra?
BMW B58 Common Problems - Alex's Autohaus - European Auto Repair in Salt Lake City, Utah
The B58 has become one of the best and most reliable performance platforms out there, but there are a few common issues you should be aware of.
No, Toyota did not help develop the B58. The B58 predated the Supra. Production of the B58 began in 2015, so design of the engine started several years before then. The Supra wasn’t released until 2019, so design didn’t start until after the B58 was already in production.
Toyota PR has continually and repeatedly overstated their role on the Z4 coupe. Toyota did very, very little of the engineering on that car. Toyota specified the tune (basically the ECU mapping) on the B58 for the Z4 coupe. Toyota also specified the shock and spring rates for the suspension. Toyota designed that horrifically ugly body. Toyota also paid BMW some cash to support development of the Z4 and Z4 coupe. But BMW did 90% of the engineering. The Z4 coupe is a Z4 built by Magna Steyr from BMW parts; it is not a Toyota.
The B58 is reportedly a great engine and the ZF 8-speed automatic is reportedly one of the best automatic transmissions on the market. Neither of those are what worries me about the Ineos. What worries me about the Ineos is everything else.
As one of those ‘tech geeks’ with supposedly no business acumen, I would have to say making money from oil and gas does not translate into expertise in other industries other than spending a lot on tech geeks to design and build a new car company.The brand was started by a billionaire, not some tech geeks who have no business acumen. I have hopes (call it wishful thinking or ignorance
TBH I think a Lexus TX would be a lot better vehicle for what the use case is. Add a fun 4x4 of choice for the occasional off road trip.
