5.3l, nv4500, np205, centered rea mini hybid driveline length questions (2 Viewers)

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scored a 2003 z71 suburban, roll over with 77k on it.

pulling the engine and harness now,

I've read a bunch on the saginaw power steering swap. but nobody talks about newer boxes. Does anybody know if this power steering box would work?

I'm using a Scout 2 steering box on mine. I like it because it allows use a full-width winch, shortening of the front frame, and allowing the winch to be between the frame rails and not block the air flow to the radiator.

That said, someone is selling a 80 steering box and it looks like it would work in the same fashion as the scout 2 box... scout 2 boxes are a lot more plentiful then you might imagine because most rusted to dust leaving dana 44 axles, dana 300 transfer case, and the steering box (which is made by saginaw).

My entire setup is a HP dana 44 with cross-steering - so all my TREs are pretty common American stuff... no adapting to toyo stuff to be able to opine on that other then pointing out that most put the American TRE on the steering box end and the toyota one on the other end when adapting.

The issue you'll need to consider if you use a 80 or a Scout 2 box - how you're going to mount your driver's side fender when its done.... you have to do a bunch of hacking to get the box in the right spot. I'm using aftermarket fenders so it wasn't as much of an issue.
 
Just don't want to, don't want to buy an AA kit. I got the tranny for cheap, payed a little more than I wanted to for the transfer case. Got a great deal on the suburban with 5.3l, low miles, starts and runs great. Will sell the tranny, and transfer case to someone else on the cheap.

I'll be into this for a lot less than a 2f rebuild. Now I could blow it all on a harnesses, and bling, but I'll keep on the poorboy track. I could spend the money if I wanted to, not on a budget, just a way if thinking.

I think if the body turns out nice, I might splurge on paint. Might leave it in primer too.

Our volunteer FD has a one ton fire truck (brush truck) with an nv4500, it shifts smooth like silk. I love the gen III engine platform, had one in a suburban, great power, starts great, runs great.

I'm no youngster, I've had lots of carbs and points, and a couple of in line 6's.There's a reason they don't build em like they used too.

And I think I'll be real happy with a little longer wheel base.
 
I got ya, I thought there was some technical reason for not wanting to, I'm no youngster either, but I did but the adapter, just didn't want to piss away the money if there was no advantage.
 
Huge advantage to the AA, keep land cruise transfer case, and rear axle. And your drive shaft is still the right length.

I never said I had any sense. I've always liked heeps never bought one, didn't want to spend the day bucking around town. But the new 4 doors, that got me thinking. I've had mine way to long to not be on the road but life happens.

Land cruisers are bad ass. I like the ICON stretch, not optimal but a good compromise in what I want to drive.
 
77LC tcase is not overly strong.

You'll be better off with the donor stuff :)
 
New problem, I had noticed some play in my rear end. Took the cover off, and the shaft that holds the spiders to the carrier has some wobble at one end. Might be the carrier is worn or might be the shaft. So rather than rebuild it to do the mini truck hybrid axle swap, I'm looking at 80 axles. cut off the long side and use a short side axle to get a centered rear diff, which is the goal.

Fj 80 rear axle modification - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Found a 1994 rear $140 out of the vehicle and a 2000 lx 470 still in, $250, might get the 4 link and springs and pan hard bar off of the 470 (does it have air bags?).

Which axle should I look for? fj80 fzj80 lx450 or lx 470?

e-locker would be cool but I'd like to get my suspension settled get a lift under it and start putting parts on.

The lift plan has been for a 4" hfs or that smokey mountain 4". But, an 80 swap has me thinking factory 4 link with coils.

So, the two questions are which axle? And if I pull the links pan hard and springs, can I find a set of rear springs to get close to a 4" front lift spring?
 
You want the 94. It should be a FF and 6-lug. The 2000 will be 5-lug.
 
You do not really want to use the existing brackets on the axles. MUCH better to fab your own mounts and not "make it work".
 
sitting around a hotel,

I found a 1996 with elocker , has linkage still attached

need to search how to rig a switch, for the elocker

I keep bouncing around the idea of a factory 80 four link, how would the body roll be with a triangulated four link? I will see quite a bit of highway driving.

so Mace, are you saying use an 80 geometry with heavier attachments? ruff stuff kit, or leaf springs?
 
If you were using a 80 frame, the geometry would make sense.

If you design a doubly triangulated 4 link properly, the body roll will not be a problem at all.
 
OK, bell housing has been modified. FZJ80 locking rear axle has been cut down.

So in the last image the saw cut would be the inside of the spring perch. And it does not look like there will be room to use the parking brake. And that's not good. I've eliminated the toy transfer case with brake.

IMG_3129.JPG


IMG_3130.JPG


IMG_3132.JPG
 
That's the donor axle, was used for the second short side shaft. Shortened axle came out to 56".

So, Ruff Stuff is having a sale. imagine that.

Questions about four link.

I would like to run 285/75 16, about 33" i would guess. Maybe even up to 35" probably not.

I'm more interested in driving it to MOAB than being able to make every trail. Mainly a highway rig. Lots of mud around here, not many rocks.
Was planning a 4" HFS or Smokey Mountain lift.

So, if I jump off into 4 link calculations where do I start?

1) what should the measurement from the floor to the bottom of the frame be? ride hight? how many inches should i set up for?

2) no engine or body in the frame now. Should the frame be level?

3) what squat number should I look for for a smooth ride over the bumps at at speed?

4) If I three link the front should I move the axle forward a little?
Back to question 1) would rather not do a cut and turn, so how high should the frame be set?

5) neighbor put a 4link in his camaro with low profile tires and you can feel the road, I don't like it, With hiem joints will i be disappointed, in the ride? Should have a lot more rubber than his.
 
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First, are you planning on fishplating the axle cut? it's be pretty easy now to get a bit of pipe where the ID is the OD of the axle tube then weld it over the top.... this is even more important if you're going to link it

your questions - first, there is a link calculator here 4x4 Excel Spresheets

1) I have no idea what you're asking
2) yes
3) use the calculator, the best set ups tend to happen over time - but the general rule is you want neither squat nor separation
4) remember if you move the front suspension forward, your steering and everything else related changes. moving the rear axle back helps in several ways (as long as turning radius isn't a huge problem for you); most importantly in driveshaft length. Front, I moved mine forward the same amount as the increase in tire size so that I wouldn't hit the fenders on stuff and turn.
5) use poly joints on the axle end - then you get flex and fewer rattles. As for the noise, that's far more a function of the low-profile tires than it is the links. With that said, at minimum you want lubable links... most 4 links for cars do not have that.
 
On 2-4 just what I wanted to know,

So, back to number one

What should my starting reference be for the frame? How high should it be off of the ground for a 33" tire for sure and maybe a 35" with a a little trimming? I don't want to be as high as a spring over, so about where should i start? I need to put something in the calculator to start.

The axle tube... I took a schedule 80 coupling about 5 1/2" inches long and turned it down in the lathe, Heated the piss out of the axle tubes and slid it in.
 
Frame to ground measurement, what would the stock measurement be?

If the stock tires are 28" the centerline of the axle should be 14" Right? Looks like the axle centerline lines up with the bottom of the frame.

If I want a say true 4" lift I should set the frame at 18" and use 18" in the 4 link calculator. Right?

I can't measure mine as my frame is striped.

These are questions, looking for conformation.

fj40-2.jpg
 
I would like to run 285/75 16, about 33" i would guess. Maybe even up to 35" probably not.

I'm more interested in driving it to MOAB than being able to make every trail. Mainly a highway rig. Lots of mud around here, not many rocks.
Was planning a 4" HFS or Smokey Mountain lift.

So, if I jump off into 4 link calculations where do I start?

1) what should the measurement from the floor to the bottom of the frame be? ride hight? how many inches should i set up for?

that is entirely dependent on tire size. But tire size does not effect the links (short of room for bigger tires). i like really low rigs. nice and stable. but i cut fenders instead of lift. IIRC my 40s frame height is anout 22" on 40" tires. works out to a 2.5ish in lift.

2) no engine or body in the frame now. Should the frame be level?

under the doors yes.


3) what squat number should I look for for a smooth ride over the bumps at at speed?

80ish % as is a good starting point.

4) If I three link the front should I move the axle forward a little?

move the front axle to make room for tires or approach angle. figure out where things need to fit after that. an inch or two will make things nicer.

Back to question 1) would rather not do a cut and turn, so how high should the frame be set?

do not avoid a cut n turn yet. it may be necessary. do not design around not doing it. cnt is cake compared to a link suspension.

5) neighbor put a 4link in his camaro with low profile tires and you can feel the road, I don't like it, With hiem joints will i be disappointed, in the ride? Should have a lot more rubber than his.

all heim joints can be jarring and transmit a lot of road vibrations. i like heim joints on the axle end and re/johnny joints at the frame.

Frame to ground measurement, what would the stock measurement be?

If the stock tires are 28" the centerline of the axle should be 14" Right? Looks like the axle centerline lines up with the bottom of the frame.

If I want a say true 4" lift I should set the frame at 18" and use 18" in the 4 link calculator.

you have to figure out the tire size as well. going up to a 33 from a 29 adds 2" of frame/axle height.


couple things to think about.


btw, longer links make for less differences during axle travel. shoot for long, flat links. also, for soaking up bumps you can set up the rear to squat a bit under acceleration. but do not ignore the rebound settings on your shocks.
 
Ok, how do these numbers look to start? I think I can go longer on the links
 

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The static ride height angle of your links will be the primary factor in how much road vibration is transmitted to your frame. The steeper the angles the greater the energy into the frame and not into the shocks/springs. Keep your links flat and long and the ride quality will be better.

IMO air springs are the way to go. They're cheaper than you might think and you can have any ride height you want. For $100 per corner for the springs and another couple hundred $ for a ride height control setup, it's well worth it. You can have a comfortable ride on the highway at low ride height and then lift up a bit for the trails. Otherwise I would go with adjustable coilovers. They aren't terribly expensive to put together custom sets of Bilstein 6100 or 7100's. And you can dial in your right height later. Just get reasonably close to start.

Body sway is the result of a combination of factors. It's easier to get more flex with springs closer to the center line, but that doesn't seem like it's a primary goal. Springs as far outboard as possible will help a lot with body sway. I would also use sway bars.
 

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