5.3l, nv4500, np205, centered rea mini hybid driveline length questions

Discussion in 'HardCore Corner' started by aandy767, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    1976 fj40,

    I've got an nv4500, and np205 round pattern, has an 1 5/8" AA adaptor ring between them.

    Plan is 5.3l at 29" plus the 40" bell housing to rear output of 205. gets me to nearly 70 inches.

    stock length now is 64" . I figure I can moved the whole thing forward 4-5" maybe 6" i don't know you tell me. 6 may be a stretch.

    Looks to me like I will end up with about a 17" drive shaft at 13 degrees.

    I know AA's nv4500 adaptor will buy some valuable inches. But, you have to shorten the output shaft and loose the balancer on the output shaft. $600 for the adaptor and I could keep my toyota t-case.

    I scored the tranny for $200 and the 205 for $500 with the slip yoke eliminated. I haven't purchased the engine yet, that's the easy part.

    My big concerns are rear drive shaft length and angle, and drive train placement. I could shorten by 1 5/8" by replacing the input on the 205 with a short 32 spline.

    I still have no lift, don't need much. but will make the angle worse.

    intentions I've got a friend with 2200 acres 77 miles away. I don't expect to crawl any rocks, but migth get real muddy.

    Proceed? bail? bite my lip and shell out 6 large to AA, (not real happy about cutting the 5thgear nut and balancer off), and sell the 205. Or press on with 17" ish driveshaft or cv style driveshaft?
     

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  2. SuperBuickGuy

    SuperBuickGuy

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    why a NP205? Dana 300s are shorter and still gear-driven. You can even make those shorter. With that said, the NV4500 is shorter then what I put in mine (an AR5) and my rear driveshaft is 20" Of course, I also moved the rear axle back a touch (2 1/2")

    you're not reinventing the wheel - and there are others who've successfully run your exact combination.... just requires some searching and surfing (there's a bunch on Pirate, for example)
     
  3. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    I looked at the 300, I've worn out the key board. Looking for some one to say oh yea that will work or oh no I tried that and the rear shaft shook like hell.

    I've found my exact set up in K5 and fj60 and Wagoneers, but not a 40 without the AA adaptor.<<<<<<<<<<

    Just asking here for a little piece of mind. It'll be a lot of work, don't won't screw up.
    Pirate has a lot of good info.
     
  4. TCinVA

    TCinVA

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    I have a 205 with a Blackbox (adds 6+ inches of length) on back of a 700r4 V8 and it all fits with a 17-18" driveshaft. I did flip the rear springs to move the axle back a little.
     
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  5. SuperBuickGuy

    SuperBuickGuy

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    to address the vibration issue, you can get CV joints in the driveshaft - not that expensive, either (roughly $350) from Tom Woods (shameless plug, but there was no special deal...)

    Pirate has good info, and allegedly some good people. I've seen the first, not the second. I can tell you what they'll say the moment you post "not long enough wheelbase"... anyway, I kind of followed the same path you're on to get where I'm at on my build FJ4Overland extreme

    I went a different direction, but a lot of the issues you raise I solved a bit differently but could be helpful to you. One thing to keep in mind, though, if you read my build. I went with a link suspension so the driveshaft expands and collapses 1/2" total throughout it's 10" of travel (in the back). With leaf springs, you get far more distance change as the axle oscillates through its range. Because the rear axle is travelling in an arch, the rear-most u-joint pretty closely keeps the at-rest angle... something a leaf spring won't do
     
  6. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    17" driveshaft is very short. Even with a CV there is a good chance for vibrations at speed. Additionally, your front DS will be pretty long. Until you get your motor in place and positioned you won't know exactly how long the DT will be.

    IMHO, put what you have in place and see how it looks, chances are, it'll fit just fine. If not, you have spent a weekend of wrenching and no real money out of pocket.
     
  7. SuperBuickGuy

    SuperBuickGuy

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    I agree with Mace, test fit it.

    There are quite a few things you can do to reduce driveline angle (such as aiming the transfer case toward the differential). I "gained" 8 degrees by doing that.

    That said, there are some other questions - how much lift? what size tire? what gear ratio? driveshaft speed is directly dependent on on gear ratio and tire size. In mud, the bigger the tire the better - if you go much beyond a 33" tire, you'll either have to cut the rear fenders (in the front) to clear or move the axle back....
     
  8. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    Ok there went a couple of hours, looking at FJ4Overland. WOW now I'm jonesing for a four link too.

    Thanks guys
     
  9. TCinVA

    TCinVA

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    I haven't had any vibration with my short driveshaft. I actually used it with my old setup toy box/ LC case. It is just a stock shortened shaft on a spring over. For 1 trip it was an offset case to a centered rear with a really funky side angle and even that was fine on the trails.?
     
  10. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    On the trails almost anything works. It's at speed that the vibrations start to show up.
     
  11. pjohnson

    pjohnson SILVER Star

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    I added 6" to my stock drivetrain with a Toybox which by your numbers put me at 70" long. I flipped the rear springs to move the axle back and run a cv joint on my ds. I dont know the length, but I run 65 on the highway SO on 37s with no issues.
     
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  12. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    Ok, may not be real hard core, but an extra 18" will give us room for a drive shaft and some leg room in the back.
     

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  13. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    Thats upside down and not fully welded yet.

    I like the look of the 10" aquila tub, I like about 14" the best, but in the end you might as well go big.

    The icon uses the 18" stretched tub. I think it's a little too long, but here we go. I'll put in a heep style seat and have some leg room back there.

    I'll weld in some more plates, prime and paint the frame the cut the body in two.
     
  14. SSCR

    SSCR

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    I'm building a 5.3 but with a 4L60e and late model Toy split case in a 10" stretched Aqualu tub. Hit me up if you have questions and I'll do my best to answer them. I'm also doing 4 link in the rear and 3 link upfront.
     
  15. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    SSCR what a resto on that 77, that thing looked better than factory, too bad you had to sell it. Do you have a build thread on the new one?

    Why the 4 link? yeah from the guy that just cut his frame in half.

    I'm at the point I oughta get a lift as soon as I get the frame painted.

    Just fabled up a rear gusset driver side, it was gone and the spring hanger was a little forward i think.
     
  16. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    still upside down

    IMG_2838.JPG
    That was a real bear bending the angle I need to grind it down it's longer than the other side. I picked up that rear crossmember years ago, but think I should build bumper, idk.
     
  17. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    scored a 2003 z71 suburban, roll over with 77k on it.

    pulling the engine and harness now,

    I've read a bunch on the saginaw power steering swap. but nobody talks about newer boxes. Does anybody know if this power steering box would work?
     
  18. Tigerstripe40

    Tigerstripe40

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    Which is cheaper, the AA split case adapter, a custom driveshaft with dual CV's to match the centered output of an NP205 or Dana 300, or a centered rear end with matching gear ratio and wheel bolt pattern (and locker if you have one)?

    Per the PS box, show a pic, it might work. Depending on the style of box, if the pitman arm faces rearward, the box needs to be mounted on the inside of the frame rails.

    Also, count the splines and see if someone makes a U-joint application or steering shaft (Flaming River, Borgeson, etc) that will work.
     
  19. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    It's across town, I'll take a pic. I know folks are concerned about how many times the steering wheel turns, and everyone references a box from the 60's-or 70's.

    Just wondering if the pitman arm won't hook up or IDK.

    I know the hoses hook up to the pump , because they're hooked up now.
     
  20. aandy767

    aandy767 SILVER Star

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    Already have engine v4500 and np205, and a stretched frame 18".

    just didn't want to cut the balancer off of the nv4500. so I'm not going AA

    Either a hybrid rear or an 80 reared (shortened on one side). or one tons still need to decide on lift and axles.
     
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