Builds 4bt cummins 96 FZJ (1 Viewer)

[cjmoon]

Yes but on the stock converter there is only so much you can do to lower the stall. Mine was lowered also and it feels the same as the one in the 6bt LX. We're saying ideally lower would be better. So more research needs to be done. No off the shelf aftermarket exists that I know of at this point. Possibly the Australian outfit, that would match other cummins applications

 

[Dubbinchris]

The video from Duiser makes it's seem like everything is A-Okay with the LX, yet you guys discovered a load of problems. I noticed at one point in the video while he was driving down the road that camera showed the handheld programmer and the RPM read zero. Is Duiser a new company? Is Duiser and Jonesy the same? Just curious.

 

[turbophil]

Everything was not A-OK for sure. There are some good parts on this truck for sure. However, detail was just in short supply.

One of the more annoying things was the connecting link interference with the pan. In the pics below, you can see the smiling connecting link. It "self clearanced" itself on the pan. It's silly because with the motor out of the truck, it would have been a simple 1 hour project to notch the pan slightly. It's a pain to pull the pan with the motor installed...

Anyone know more about this fabled shop in AZ who wants to build a billet TC for this trans?

Pan Damage

• turbophil
• Nov 29, 2014

Bowed Connecting Link

• turbophil
• Nov 29, 2014

 

[OGBeno]

Is Duiser a new company? Is Duiser and Jonesy the same?

Duiser=Jonesey

 

[maxamillion2345]

I'm surprised this thread isn't getting more attention.

 

[Dubbinchris]

Everything was not A-OK for sure. There are some good parts on this truck for sure. However, detail was just in short supply.

One of the more annoying things was the connecting link interference with the pan. In the pics below, you can see the smiling connecting link. It "self clearanced" itself on the pan. It's silly because with the motor out of the truck, it would have been a simple 1 hour project to notch the pan slightly. It's a pain to pull the pan with the motor installed...

Anyone know more about this fabled shop in AZ who wants to build a billet TC for this trans?

More interesting stuff. Sorry to thread jack here, but I do have a reason for asking and pointing out this stuff. You're the current owner of the Duiser built 6BT LX right? If so can I PM you with a few questions?

Duiser=Jonesey

Good to Know

I'm surprised this thread isn't getting more attention.

I was sort of thinking the same thing. It has some of "that" attention earlier on.

 

[Dubbinchris]

Duiser=Jonesey

Actually after some extensive clicking now I'm wondering if Diesel adapters is the same company too. Some videos seem to imply it is, but not sure. A little new to this world and trying to get up to speed.

 

[OGBeno]

I don't think they are the same company but I think they work together extensively (or, did).

 

[turbophil]

More interesting stuff. Sorry to thread jack here, but I do have a reason for asking and pointing out this stuff. You're the current owner of the Duiser built 6BT LX right? If so can I PM you with a few questions?

I am. Sure.

Actually after some extensive clicking now I'm wondering if Diesel adapters is the same company too. Some videos seem to imply it is, but not sure. A little new to this world and trying to get up to speed.

I don't think they are the same company but I think they work together extensively (or, did).

Beno, that's my understanding as well; DA is a different company (guy). I guess he builds stuff as he has time, etc, etc. From what I gather, Jonesy had a partner that broke out and started Duiser... Probably gossip and probably not correct understanding on my part. Seems like 3 different people there and now 3 different companies (it was just 2 companies, Jonesy and DA) as it was explained to me.

I put a few feelers out on tq converters (TCs as I was abbreviating earlier). Will post up if I learn anything.

-Phil

 

[turbophil]

The plot thickens!

I just couldn't get happy with this "broken TC" theory I had running. I hot wired the starter so it would crank over without the "Park" sensor in place. Started it up. Knock still there. Great, it's in the engine. Weird. Why would that be? A rod knock on a mildly breathed on 6BT? Perhaps, so let's drain the oil and start tearing things apart.

Oil drained, and have to pull the adapter plate to get to the rear pan bolts and then I noticed something I missed prior. NONE of the FW bolt head were actually engaging the flexplate/FW We checked them and they were tight... Well, after cranking up the air pressure on the shop air I was able to get the stripped bolts out with my impact. Yes, stripped. The nice folks who did the conversion used bolts that were TOO LONG to clamp the FW assembly to the crank. They clearly drove them in passed bottoming with a good sized impact which resulted in stripped threads and a FW that could move about on the crank. Now time to tap the holes and heli-coil the really bad ones.

Also, time to put oil back in the motor and start up to see if the knock goes away without the wobbly FW. I hope so. If not, fair to say the wobbly FW is probably a contributing factor to bearing damage in the motor.

To the PMs I rec'd asking me about the folks who did the conversion... Some of these issues are sort of expected with a big conversion and maybe I'm just picky in some cases. However, this FW bolt issue is inexcusable.

More later,

Phil

FW bolts

• turbophil
• Nov 30, 2014

Too long and were bottomed out in the crank, but not clamping the FW to the crank fully

 

[maxamillion2345]

None of these issues are expected or acceptable on a turn key swap.

That's CRAP.

 

[turbophil]

No disagreement here... Gotta source some bolts, fix the threads, and get the FW back on so that I can give it a tick over and see what it does...

-Phil

 

[turbophil]

A bit more data for future projects involving the BTs...

The FW is 24mm thick at the flange, the flex plate is 3mm. There's about 20mm of usable thread in the BT crank which is essentially the bottom of the hole in the crank. Therefore, don't use a bolt with more than 47mm of total length. The bolts used by the good folks doing this swap were 50mm, which resulted in a 2-3mm of movement of the FW. Realistically, a 45mm bolt is the absolute max that should be used. 40-45mm would be fine. The thread is M12x1.25.

Ideally a M12x1.25x45mm bolt that's grade 10.9 or better (although 8.8 may be all that's readily available). Careful that your shoulder doesn't exceed 27mm in length.

-Phil

 

[turbophil]

More Pics.

Galling on the FW from the wobble. You can also see the FP wasn't tight against the FW from the rust patterns. Thrust seems within spec. Fingers crossed!

Thrust measurement

• turbophil
• Nov 30, 2014

Seems within spec at .008

Galling from FW wobble

• turbophil
• Nov 30, 2014

Flexplate

• turbophil
• Nov 30, 2014

Clearly clamped in some areas and not in others....

 

[OGBeno]

Sorry but maybe I am being naive in asking this question since I come from a manufacturer where correctness and verisimilitude are tantamount in any technical operations, but: aren't there Cummins or Dodge or Aisin bolts that you can use to not have this issue? I mean going to the local hardware store and picking up some bolts for the critical application of the flywheel of a $25K+ conversion doesn't seem logical in my opinion.

Toyota specifically has hardened bolts for the flywheel to crankshaft mating connection point in any application and they are sized specifically and can be sourced using cross references based on what transmission you are mating to what engine since those applications still adhere to the old Toyota part number nomenclature of diameter/pitch/length in the last 5 digits of the part number.

??

 

[turbophil]

I'm not an expert on the BT by anymeans. This is the first I've had. I'm not sure what the standard FW+FP thickness is. In this case, it's about 27mm. the toyota bolts are irrelevant since we're bolting into a BT, not a yota motor. Also the FW is an aftermarket part, so again not sure if the ~27mm is a common thickness to clamp to in BT land. Alternatively, could easily snag some M12x1.25x45mm ARP bolts and feel real content in the hardware selection...

The 50mm bolts that Duiser used in this conversion, which were too d@mn long and at the root of all this, appear to be from a hardware store bolt bin-- not OE...

-Phil

 

[Dubbinchris]

None of these issues are expected or acceptable on a turn key swap.

That's CRAP.

Agreed!

 

[Dirty Koala]

What happened to the 6BT cummins conversion thread? Did big brother delete it?

 

[medtro]

What happened to the 6BT cummins conversion thread? Did big brother delete it?

This one - Cummins 6bt/nv4500 build?

 

[Dirty Koala]

No not that one. It was called "Cummins 6bt Conversion" I just got an email with an update to that thread by @turbophil asking some very valid questions.

I am getting tired of the moderators deleting posts and threads. It seems as though any post that is not in favor of a supporting vendor gets promptly deleted, regardless of the value that post/thread may be to the Landcruiser community.

The below was in the email alert I am referring to.

mryanangel, turbophil replied to a thread you are watching at IH8MUD Forum.

Cummins 6bt Conversion

Duiser Offroad
NO THERE IS NOT MORE TO "IT".

NO THERE ARE NO KNOWN ISSUES WITH THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. ITS GOOD TO GO, AWESOME, AND VERY CAPABLE.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE AUTO CONVERSION, WATCH AND READ ABOUT THE PREDATOR AND OR THE LEXUS. LOTS OF TEST DRIVING OF THE LEXUS IN REAL WORLD CONDITIONS AND THE PREDATOR WAS RALLIED HARD.
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BUT LET ME EXPAND, WE DISCOVERED THAT WE PREFER MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS, GRANNY LOW GEAR, MECHANICAL SIMPLICITY, AND 2WD/ 4WD TRANSFER CASES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU, NOTHING. KEEPING THE AUTO AND USING THE KIT IS CHEAPER AND EASIER ......NO CONSPIRACIES HERE @cjmoon

Just curious, when you built the Lexus in the video above, how did you come to the bolt length chosen to secure the flywheel to the BT crank? I measured 50mm long bolt and the total depth of the hold was 47mm or so...Also curious why you had the torque converter locking up in 3rd, as this resulted in a locked torque converter during the 3-4 gear shift--- not a good thing. Also interested in knowing if the reason you put a 2" lift on the Lexus was due to the connecting link hitting the oil pan. Was there a reason you didn't notch the oil pan? Seems there was sufficient contact of the oil pan and connecting link to bend the connecting link downward to create a smile in it. While the connecting link may be smiling, I'm not.

thx-

Phil