Builds 400HP Turbo 80 build (3 Viewers)

[dogfishlake]

Yeah. If you remember when I talked to Head Games, who are some of the best Supra head builders in the US. They said they wouldn't touch the 1FZFE head if it was running under 1500hp.

Under 1500 hp? Child's play!

 

[aquatech3]

So a little more confusion to add to my head dilemma. I called Head Games today and they said they would leave the valve size stock, change out the guides, use Ferrea 6000 valves and Brian Crower single springs and retainers. He also said due to the life I am looking to get out of the motor he is not sure titanium retainers are the way to go as they would wear more against steel springs. Not sure if the stock steel retainers would fit Crower springs.

He said for the amount of horsepower I am looking to produce (400-600) I really don't need to worry about high-end components and that I could use any number of aftermarket brand valves and springs.

Still leaning toward all Ferrea set up but the comment about titanium not wearing well against steel long-term has me a little concerned.

Never heard of this being an issue has anyone else?

 

[scottryana]

I didn't get much help nor a good vibe from Head Games, they almost seemed too bothered to want to deal with the 1FZ head.

If cost is an issue, than yes keep things stock. You can do what you want on all stock components. If you want to get faster spool, better flow, etc spend your money and go bigger valves, port and polish, gasket match, etc.

If you are keeping stock rev limit, no need for titanium or changing the shim on buckets. The crossover point is about 6000rpms. If you are going with lighter rods, pistons and pins and plan on revving higher with higher spring pressure you will want to look at changing the shim on buckets and lighter weight retainers, etc.

You just need to figure out what your plan is so that you can pick the right path for it.

If you are staying with a 5500rpm redline, you only want 400hp, you don't have to change anything. I have been doing it for over 3 years.

If you want to get crazy and really push things, no one in the US is doing it, you will have to be your own pioneer, but it has been proven in AUD and UAE that these engines are not rocket science, more air and more fuel equals more power. Higher RPM's need shimless buckets or shim under buckets. Too much cylinder pressure and you can float a valve. Better flow means the same power at less boost, less boost means less heat, less heat means less chance for detonation. So pick your plan and stick with it.

 

[Wattsy]

I would leave the valve size stock.

I have owned/built several supras over the years and it seems that oversize valves are best for carrying power way up the rev range. +1mm valves on the 2jz will actually slow spool, but will make more power up top. For a 1fz pulling around a fat 80 series I would take the quicker spool over more high rpm power.

 

[Rwhat]

Looking forward to this especially the engine management aspect.

Also don't forget to get the timing cover machined if the block isn't straight and the bushing replaced in the block if it gets hot tanked. Minor stuff that can set you back last minute if your forget.

 

[aquatech3]

Looking forward to this especially the engine management aspect.

Also don't forget to get the timing cover machined if the block isn't straight and the bushing replaced in the block if it gets hot tanked. Minor stuff that can set you back last minute if your forget.[/QUOTE

Looking forward to this especially the engine management aspect.

Also don't forget to get the timing cover machined if the block isn't straight and the bushing replaced in the block if it gets hot tanked. Minor stuff that can set you back last minute if your forget.

Yes the engine management will be fun and I am looking forward to it hopefully! I still have to do some reading on the Haltech elite systems but from my initial review it looks like the 500 or 750 will be the one I go with.

I assume you are talking about the oil pump bushing which I have ordered from @landtank. I also will take the timing cover with the block just in case.

Thanks for the input!

 

[dogfishlake]

I didn't realize that the Elite 550 or 750 would work in this application. They are priced really well from what I see on Haltech's site. That is great news.

 

[half k cruiser]

Still leaning toward all Ferrea set up but the comment about titanium not wearing well against steel long-term has me a little concerned.

Never heard of this being an issue has anyone else?

I believe titanium is susceptible to work hardening. I'm pretty sure you can anneal it, or its alloys, but you cannot temper it like you would a piece of spring steel.

 

[aquatech3]

I didn't realize that the Elite 550 or 750 would work in this application. They are priced really well from what I see on Haltech's site. That is great news.

from my initial reading it seems so but I am not 100% sure. I have to do some more research to see which one was the best replacement for the platinum 1000

 

[scottryana]

The 750 would be the one you want. The 500 only has 4 injector and 4 ignition controls. Start at 1:41 he talks about the 1FZ.



If you really want titanium would could have it Titanium nitrite coated as it is much harder.

from my initial reading it seems so but I am not 100% sure. I have to do some more research to see which one was the best replacement for the platinum 1000

 

[dogfishlake]

Reading the wiring harness on the Haltech site, not sure if the 750 supports methanol injection. It can be a stand alone anyway (like the Snow Performance kit), but would be nice if the Haltech took control of that.

 

[scottryana]

You can. You just use one or two of the 7 user defined inputs to trigger an output. Like you would use an input for IAT sensor and MAP to trigger the output for the pump relay if the conditions of the IAT of say 120 degrees and the MAP of 2psi are met. I am doing it.

Reading the wiring harness on the Haltech site, not sure if the 750 supports methanol injection. It can be a stand alone anyway (like the Snow Performance kit), but would be nice if the Haltech took control of that.

 

[aquatech3]

About four hours in and the motor is ready to come out.

 

[Rwhat]

The 750 would be the one you want. The 500 only has 4 injector and 4 ignition controls. Start at 1:41 he talks about the 1FZ.



If you really want titanium would could have it Titanium nitrite coated as it is much harder.

What's your thoughts on the Haltech 750? Will this be able to tune the engine to make the HP the OP wants? Can this be setup be tuned easily? Can a base map be sent to user from another person with similar turbo setup and be run?

I know a small bit of factory tuning for ford diesels and LS engines. Aftermarket stuff I have no clue.

 

[scottryana]

Oh yeah the 750 would easily do everything that the OP needs! And tuning with the new Haltechs is incredibly easy. They have a long term fuel trim learning mode. Which is huge.

In the past you used to have an AFR map and an injector fueling map. But the two didn't talk to each other. You could watch on the AFR map and see "ok here in this cell I am lean at 4000rpms and 5psi" and then you would go to your fueling map and add more fuel to that area. And it was a constant back and forth to dial it in. That's a huge part of why it used to be so important and so much easier to do your initial tuning on the dyno. You could just sit on the rollers and watch the laptop and not worry about watching the road.

But now with long term fuel trim learning mode, you just set your AFR map up, drive, the ECU adds fuel to meet your AFR's you can go in and look at how much fuel it needs to meet your target and then apply the changes. So the more you drive the more dialed in your tune becomes. This has been a huge change in the industry and it certainly helps the guy at home tuning his own car without to the dyno.

 

[dogfishlake]

You can. You just use one or two of the 7 user defined inputs to trigger an output. Like you would use an input for IAT sensor and MAP to trigger the output for the pump relay if the conditions of the IAT of say 120 degrees and the MAP of 2psi are met. I am doing it.

Very good. Besides the expense of purchasing the separate system, it means one less thing that could have issues.

 

[dogfishlake]

Oh yeah the 750 would easily do everything that the OP needs! And tuning with the new Haltechs is incredibly easy. They have a long term fuel trim learning mode. Which is huge.

In the past you used to have an AFR map and an injector fueling map. But the two didn't talk to each other. You could watch on the AFR map and see "ok here in this cell I am lean at 4000rpms and 5psi" and then you would go to your fueling map and add more fuel to that area. And it was a constant back and forth to dial it in. That's a huge part of why it used to be so important and so much easier to do your initial tuning on the dyno. You could just sit on the rollers and watch the laptop and not worry about watching the road.

But now with long term fuel trim learning mode, you just set your AFR map up, drive, the ECU adds fuel to meet your AFR's you can go in and look at how much fuel it needs to meet your target and then apply the changes. So the more you drive the more dialed in your tune becomes. This has been a huge change in the industry and it certainly helps the guy at home tuning his own car without to the dyno.

I thought that one would need to have a Haltech dealer do the final tuning though, is that true? I emailed one of the Michigan dealers this morning to get some more info but have not heard back yet. There are 2 about the same distance from me. One had nothing but NSX stuff on their site and the second, a group of Supras in their photo. Went with the second one.

 

[scottryana]

No you could do it yourself if you really wanted to. It is just a matter of how comfortable you are willing to get with the system. Just like you don't "need" an OME dealer to install your springs and shocks. I ended up at a tuner because I am using the older Platinum Sport 2000, that does not have the learning strategies, if I had the money for a 750, I would have done it myself.

 

[hazard]

I didn't get much help nor a good vibe from Head Games, they almost seemed too bothered to want to deal with the 1FZ head.

If cost is an issue, than yes keep things stock. You can do what you want on all stock components. If you want to get faster spool, better flow, etc spend your money and go bigger valves, port and polish, gasket match, etc.

If you are keeping stock rev limit, no need for titanium or changing the shim on buckets. The crossover point is about 6000rpms. If you are going with lighter rods, pistons and pins and plan on revving higher with higher spring pressure you will want to look at changing the shim on buckets and lighter weight retainers, etc.

You just need to figure out what your plan is so that you can pick the right path for it.

If you are staying with a 5500rpm redline, you only want 400hp, you don't have to change anything. I have been doing it for over 3 years.

If you want to get crazy and really push things, no one in the US is doing it, you will have to be your own pioneer, but it has been proven in AUD and UAE that these engines are not rocket science, more air and more fuel equals more power. Higher RPM's need shimless buckets or shim under buckets. Too much cylinder pressure and you can float a valve. Better flow means the same power at less boost, less boost means less heat, less heat means less chance for detonation. So pick your plan and stick with it.

View attachment 1507920

Hey, somebody finally flow tested head. Is this for a stock head and valve size?

 

[hazard]

I didn't get much help nor a good vibe from Head Games, they almost seemed too bothered to want to deal with the 1FZ head.

If cost is an issue, than yes keep things stock. You can do what you want on all stock components. If you want to get faster spool, better flow, etc spend your money and go bigger valves, port and polish, gasket match, etc.

If you are keeping stock rev limit, no need for titanium or changing the shim on buckets. The crossover point is about 6000rpms. If you are going with lighter rods, pistons and pins and plan on revving higher with higher spring pressure you will want to look at changing the shim on buckets and lighter weight retainers, etc.

You just need to figure out what your plan is so that you can pick the right path for it.

If you are staying with a 5500rpm redline, you only want 400hp, you don't have to change anything. I have been doing it for over 3 years.

If you want to get crazy and really push things, no one in the US is doing it, you will have to be your own pioneer, but it has been proven in AUD and UAE that these engines are not rocket science, more air and more fuel equals more power. Higher RPM's need shimless buckets or shim under buckets. Too much cylinder pressure and you can float a valve. Better flow means the same power at less boost, less boost means less heat, less heat means less chance for detonation. So pick your plan and stick with it.

View attachment 1507920

Somebody finally flow tested, great! Is this a stock head and valve size