Lots of cognitive dissonance today...
4 banger LC, thoughts? (1 Viewer)
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Is this confirmed? 200 has fantastic articulation
NTTD
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They were good solid pigs with a ton of lipstick in our market. No need to be so expensive.
THIS 100%.
They didn't have to be so over-optioned and overpriced. They could have brought us a low option 300 AND a Prado/250.
We could have had more choice all along but for some reason Toyota USA got this weird concept creep and gave us here very little choice and options with the 80, 100, 200.
Almost nobody in twenty years will want an aging 20-year-old V8. The superior efficiency, reliability, and power of engines (predominantly electric) in twenty years will render V8s obsolete.
Even now many (like me) will prefer the 250's hybrid system to the old V8.
Base spec 200s were available in other markets in 2021 from the $50Ks USD. Making Americans eat needless luxury killed the 200 stateside.
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LOL, wanna bet?
It's cool you like this new engine setup but to me it's a Land Cruiser with panties on.
At least share the v6tt from the GX, detune it, whatever. Just not a 4cylinder engine and hybrid. It may make all the green folks happy but it's not going to be a pleasant power plant like the V8 is in the real world. I imagine using this for lots of relatively heavy towing would probably overwhelm and/or kill it. Tow a boat with the old V8 until the cows come home across the country up huge hills etc., you ain't gonna have any issues. A main reason we bought ours was for towing.
Can anyone imagine the moan and strain of 4 cylinders attempting to tow up a mountain? Shew.
Good question. I thought so, by virtue of sharing 300 parts, where 300 improved on 200's already excellent articulation. Jetboy has been pretty on drivetrain / suspension similarities across the new platforms, so I expect he'll weigh in.
OK but you will then just need to accept that there are some of us who are not thrilled with the choice of power train (which is the target of most of the unease). Just as we need to accept that it IS actually happening.
The argument on what is best is pointless as what is best depends on the individuals needs
to some the capability for towing is a driver, to others it isn't relevant as they don't tow
Everyone is going back and forth on what is best and there is no general right answer
The 4TT IMax Hybrid seems like a killer option for those that don't tow and will enjoy the capability of longer range (assuming same size tank as GX) and lower fuel cost
The 4TT IMax Hybrid is still probably OK for towing smaller trailers
For those of us with heavier towing needs, the 4TT Imax in the 250 doesn't have the capability we DESIRE or feel we need. One reason why I am keeping my eye on the GX550 Overtrail. To me, that is just as much a Land Cruiser as the 250. I did drive an LX450 (80 series to me) before.
My 200 series is just fine and only has 94K miles so it has a lot of life left. Probably until I croak if that is what I want. I do get excited seeing there is a new option for WHEN I decide I went to transition. I do like newer technology which is why I installed a Tesla setup in my 200 and got rid of the outdated tech that came from the factory
Since my trailer is Heavy, the GX550 Overtrail would be a good path for me as an eventual transition
If I were to get rid of my trailer, then the 250 MAY be a better option based on capabilities vs non towing needs
I do like extended range, which is why I put Aux fuel tanks in my Cruisers.
Which is better is dependent on the individual and will be different for many people.
to some the capability for towing is a driver, to others it isn't relevant as they don't tow
Everyone is going back and forth on what is best and there is no general right answer
The 4TT IMax Hybrid seems like a killer option for those that don't tow and will enjoy the capability of longer range (assuming same size tank as GX) and lower fuel cost
The 4TT IMax Hybrid is still probably OK for towing smaller trailers
For those of us with heavier towing needs, the 4TT Imax in the 250 doesn't have the capability we DESIRE or feel we need. One reason why I am keeping my eye on the GX550 Overtrail. To me, that is just as much a Land Cruiser as the 250. I did drive an LX450 (80 series to me) before.
My 200 series is just fine and only has 94K miles so it has a lot of life left. Probably until I croak if that is what I want. I do get excited seeing there is a new option for WHEN I decide I went to transition. I do like newer technology which is why I installed a Tesla setup in my 200 and got rid of the outdated tech that came from the factory
Since my trailer is Heavy, the GX550 Overtrail would be a good path for me as an eventual transition
If I were to get rid of my trailer, then the 250 MAY be a better option based on capabilities vs non towing needs
I do like extended range, which is why I put Aux fuel tanks in my Cruisers.
Which is better is dependent on the individual and will be different for many people.
I'm still confused by the LC250 in general and why it even exists. Everything it does could be done by a entry level LC300 model. It may not be the exact same thing - but it's functionally the same thing now. The last time it really made sense to me was the 3rd gen 4Runner vs LC80. Very clear differentiation between the two products. Then the 4th gen 4Runner, LC100, and Sequoia all came at the same time and basically morphed into one product in 3 flavors. The LC250 and LC300 brought them even closer together with a ton of overlap. I know there's an open debate about it - but I think they share functionally identical chassis and the only differences are body styling and powertrains. Why not just put the smaller engine in a base LC300? They put the 1GR in it. Why not use the turbo 4 hybrid and call it a day? The LC250 is a product that really doesn't need to exist.
NTTD
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Despite being designed on the same platform as the 300, I believe the 250 is closer to a 4Runner than the 300 or Sequoia.
What I am really keen to know is what they're going to do with the upcoming new 4Runner.
If it's too similar to the existing 4R, then it'll have lots of overlap with the 250.
If they change it too much they're taking a risk on a popular model.
No. I haven't seen any published info on travel or RTI scores. I'm basing it on the LC300. It was about a 10% improvement over the LC200 in articulation and travel. I think the GX550 with eKDSS will be the same as the LC300. It appears visually to be identical eKDSS system and the suspension between them are practically identical visually (although not perfectly identical). What's the biggest unknown is how eKDSS compares to the sway disconnect. If the sway disconnect is as effective as eKDSS - then the LC250 should have more articulation than the LC200.
The only hesitation I have is that the eKDSS works on the rear sway bar and the front. In the LC250 I think the sway disconnect is only for the front sway bar. So, it may end up with a bit less. But the Overtrail GX550 should have more travel/articulation. My rough math was about a 730 rti score based on Toyota's articulation claims vs the LC200 in the 600's. And - yeah, that's a ton of travel for a stock suv.
I’m no expert but from the YouTube videos I’ve been watching
it seems like people are saying there is more articulation with an intact rear sway bar with front disconnects, than with a disconnected rear and disconnected front sway bar. In fact there is a trend to get stiffer heavier duty sway bars in the rears as that seems to keep the body more level and increase articulation even more while fronts are disconnected.
What is it that makes you think that? I may be wrong. I just don't see anything pointing that way. What I'm basing it on are the same tow ratings when using the same powertrains, they share the same rear axles and it appears to be the same front axles and driveline parts. And they'll share the same transmission and transfer case between the GX and LC300. To me that tends to look like they're the same thing.
Toyota said that the tow rating was capped by the vehicle size and by the payload (tongue weight limit). It's not the power that drops the tow rating for the LC250 - it's the extra weight of the hybrid on the rear axle most likely. The 1GR LC300 has the same 8k lbs tow rating as the ttV6 and GX versions. But the hybrid with more power has the lower rating. So, I don't think it's chassis related. It's the weight and payload formula.
That doesn't seem to pass the smell test for me. Sway disconnect on both ends should increase articulation more than only on one end. Assuming the front maxes out either way - the rear articulation would be the difference between them and the rear should articulate more without a sway bar. I'd guess that the GR Sport LC300 and GX550 eKDSS are the same and represent the best of factory articulation.I’m no expert but from the YouTube videos I’ve been watching
However, if you want to lift them and put longer travel suspension on - then the sway disconnect is the better option IMO. No issues with KDSS lean or piston travel or any of that. I suspect that's the reasoning for the sway disconnect on the LC250 - it's meant to be the one everyone modifies.
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That’s what you would think, however the front gains more articulation when rear is intact than the rear gains in articulation when disconnected. So overall you get more articulation with the rear intact
Somebodyelse5
16124-75030
I mean... the 2UZ in the 100 is a 20 year old aging V8 that people want....
NTTD
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The fact that there was already overlap (class wise) for quite some time with the 4R and Prado/GX.
The fact that the Prado/250/GX and 300 are sold side-by-side.
Just because they are all on the the GA-F platform does not mean they're carbon copies. As stated by Toyota they can share many of the same parts but have differences too e.g. same diff, but shorter axles etc.
They overlapped as midsize SUVs before, but were pretty different in frame, powertrains, and running gear. Everything was scaled up a size for the LC vs J150.
Now they have the same track width and wheel base. I don't think the axles are shorter. The Tacoma also now has the same track width as well in the off road trims that share the same 9.5 axle. I think they all use the same parts.
I know Toyota said that the frame is scalable by adjusting material thickness and that would be difficult to tell from the pictures. But I bet they're the same. They have the same tow ratings. They're the same size. They have the same running gear. I'll bet the GWVR is the same as well. It would be very unusual to then not share the same frame rails. I think the adjustment of the frame is mostly in reference to the Tundra/Sequoia vs the LC300/LC250/Tacoma, but we'll see as soon as someone can take a few quick measurements. The Tundra has to be a LOT stronger than the LC300. The wheel base difference alone requires it to be twice as strong. I'd bet that the Tacoma actually has a higher strength frame rail section than the LC300.
NTTD
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