4.30 or 4.88 re-gear

[CJ3Flyer]

So, looking for arguments as to why go all the way to 4.88?

So... The short answer IMHO as a 33” tire LX guy is the cost is a wash AND 4.88 gives you performance and more flexibility. Who knows, something in your world changes and you want mod the 200 to 34’s or 35’s and wouldn’t it suck to have chosen 4.30’s?

Additionally any fears about being geared too low can be alleviated tomorrow. Just go for a spin on the interstate and leave it in S5. S5 with stock gearing is within a whisker of 4.88’s in S6, I mean less than 100rpm difference in the 75mph-80mph range. If you like it do 4.88’s. I have mine in S5 a lot. Even up to 85mph on the speedo I’m fine in S5. It’s going to be 4.88s for me. The only thing that’d change my mind is a windfall in which case I’d do a ‘16+.

See the gearing ratio chart from this worthwhile and good thread, To re-gear or not to re-gear?

 

[TLCLVR]

Thanks gents! Question answered and will be regearing to 4.88!

 

[CJ3Flyer]

So, 4.30 or 4.88?

 

[OregonLC]

Have posted this before, but FWIW here's a gear chart for the various ratios on the 6-spd. I can run for different tire sizes if you'd like.

You can see in the chart that a 285/70R17 is almost dead neutral with stock on 4.30s. (1516 @ 60mth / 6th vs 1552). So this should give you some idea of what the gear ratios will do relative to stock. Do keep in mind that just because you restore to stock ratios you most often have significantly higher weight and drag so where a stock vehicle might not 'hunt' for gears, a overland build will.

IMO, there are three goals for re-gearing: 1) response from a stop, 2) crawling performance, and 3) highway performance. If 3) is your primary goal, you can often achieve that for 'free' by simply driving in manual 5th. This is what I do most of the time on the highway unless it's dead flat and no headwind. I don't see much change in fuel econ between 6th hunting and 5th constant. As far as 1) goes, I find the 3UR to have plenty of 'poop', especially with ECT power selected. And I'm not a 'crawler' so needing a lower 4-Lo 1st gear isn't on my radar. So for me, there isn't much to be gained other than being able to run down the highway in 6th vs 5th. True, you'd have one more gear in your range (1-6 vs 1-5) but again, I don't find the 3UR lacking with a 5spd. And even in 5th, it's still spinning slower than our stock 2004 100 at the same speed. So for me there isn't a strong cost : benefit ratio. Then again, if you're running 285/75R17 you might be very happy with 4.88s turning 2,055 rpm in 6th @ 70mph and the change could be worth the cost.

I guess there is a fourth possible goal for re-gearing and that would be breakage or maintenance. We don't see 200s with broken diffs like we did on the 100s (or CVs for that matter, kudos Toyota). But, if I were to have breakage (or install lockers) then it could be a more justifiable expense for me.

This statement really doesn't affect the 200, but the 4-spd 100 that I owned was actually made worse by re-gearing. With stock gears I could hold 2nd on grades at 3,900 rpms. When I went to 4.88s I put the same speed in 3rd at around 3,500 rpm and wasn't enough grunt to hold it. Downshifting to 2nd put it up in the mid 4,000 rpms which was too high for me to feel comfortable with. That truck needed to stay stock or go to 5.29s, but 4.88s just made me aggravated. Again, doesn't necessarily apply to this truck, but I tell the story to encourage you to thoughtfully work through the charts below and think about how the truck will perform at the speeds and inclines you typically operate at so that you're confident of your result before you spend the $$$.

All numbers are based upon KO2 data on Tire Rack.

Stock:

275/70R18

285/70R17

285/75R17

 

[TeCKis300]

I'm looking at a regear as well in my 2013 LX570. I'm running 33" tires on it (no other mods) and there is a very noticeable penalty to acceleration, braking, and mpg. As @CJ3Flyer mentioned, it's most pain in the ass when fully loaded trying to maintain 75+mph, especially with any kind of incline--constant shifting, won't hold cruise control, rarely get out of 5th.

A 4.3 in the 08-15 LC200 restores the shift points to just better than stock. So, looking for arguments as to why go all the way to 4.88? The advantages at low gears--acceleration, crawling, towing, etc--are clear to me. What's not clear is how it will affect high speed/high gear performance. I regularly drive on the freeway in states with an 80 mph speed limit (which of course means I want to go 90 ). The (calculated) difference between stock gearing/tires and 4.88 gearing/33" tires at 80mph is 400 rpm (~2000 rpm stock vs ~2400 mod).

Incidentally, I ran the numbers, and a 4.3:1 diff in a 16+ cruiser is equivalent to a 6.2:1 diff in the 6-speed models... Whoa! That's crazy low dude!

We're in a gearing thread. In a enthusiast forum. That we like to take a more aggressive stance on the spectrum of tuning would be of no surprise. My milder mods puts my opinion with you on this.

There are indeed full overland builds here that should go all the way to 4.88 gearing with 33" tires. I'd wager that's perhaps the exception as it's over an 18% gearing difference over stock - a full gear in the transmission. For most rigs that has not gained 1-2k lbs, full armor, etc., I'm of the opinion that a 4.3 is the better choice for a 33" tire. 35s, sure, 4.88.

Referenced as percentage gearing relative to stock gearing might be useful. Many of us are on 33s with stock gearing which is about a 5% gearing loss. With my stock aero, I have no trouble maintaining 6th on the highway and it does not hunt.

A 4.3 on 33s already has 4% additional gearing benefit over stock for other mods. As much as we like to discount potential impacts, it's going to be there. It's well understood that more RPM will have efficiency losses. MPG is not a great indicator of lost efficiency at our consumption rates, where 1MPG lost is about 10%. It's always going to be a balance of concerns.

@OregonLC touches on a great point. While adjusting diffs is generally good, it does put transmission gears at slightly different in-between gear points. For example when I tow my large camper, I run 4th gear. If I correct with a 4.3 diff, that's going to make 4th more aggressive. Yet will it allow me to grab 5th? Potentially. If not, it would mean I'm stuck in a 10% more aggressive 4th for that use case.

 

[SQRRRL]

Slee says not to be a pussy and use the “S” mode and 4.30 at the most for regear.
Thanks for the Pro/Con thoughts.

 

[OregonLC]

While adjusting diffs is generally good, it does put transmission gears at slightly different in-between gear points. For example when I tow my large camper, I run 4th gear. If I correct with a 4.3 diff, that's going to make 4th more aggressive. Yet will it allow me to grab 5th? Potentially. If not, it would mean I'm stuck in a 10% more aggressive 4th for that use case.

Exactly. Not looking to see where the ratios put you could make your problem worse, not better. If, for example, you're hoping to drop your cruise rpms from 2,683 rpm in 4th to maybe 2,242 rpm in a re-geared 5th but end up with that ratio not staying locked and you now end up living with 3,079 rpm in a re-geared 4th you would have spent several $,$$$ for negative results. Prior Proper Planning Prevents Painfully Poor Performance.

With your stock tire size you could go to 4.88s and drop 5th rpm to 2,554 but that a big job just to save 129 rpms. I know gears aren't on your agenda, but this is a great example of where - even with the 6 spd - re-gearing could produce marginal or negative results.

 

[SQRRRL]

Those are my exact concerns with 4.88. This is why I was thinking 4.30 would be best. Great insight guys.

 

[bloc]

I scanned the thread but haven't seen this mentioned yet..

if someone is on the fence about these different ratios.. they would be expensive but 4.3 is available OEM from toyota, and 4.88 isn't. Those toyota gears will be MUCH higher quality than the aftermarket 4.88s.

 

[mep1811]

Good thread . I'm going to 33" tires and will be towing a 5K trailer. Looks like 4.88's will be in my future.

 

[OregonLC]

FWIW, I've towed ~ 5K dual axle with 33's and RTT and 5th does fine with 3.90s. Though when pulling I tend to keep it in the 60-65 mph range (much of Oregon is posted 55/60 for trailers). At 12,000 GCVW it can hunt 4-5 on grades and headwind. Though I've pulled it over Santiam pass several times (4,800 elevation gain) and 3rd is plenty, with the occasional 2nd accelerating out of tight corners.

YMMV...

 

[silverhorse]

Great info , thanks for all the input guys!

 

[TLCLVR]

I scanned the thread but haven't seen this mentioned yet..

if someone is on the fence about these different ratios.. they would be expensive but 4.3 is available OEM from toyota, and 4.88 isn't. Those toyota gears will be MUCH higher quality than the aftermarket 4.88s.

Happen to have a part number? I was aware Tundras have a 4.3, but the new Tundras with 4.3 use a 10.5” diff. I wasn’t sure if they are available in 9.5”. Toyota parts online only indicates what vehicle it’s suitable for. Says nothing about the ratio or ring size on their ring and pinion sets.

...and now that you’ve broached the subject, I agree that most OEM mechanical parts for the 200 are bomb-proof, but I’m not convinced they are always better than aftermarket.

Thoughts from the community? Let’s not stray too far from diff gearing and drivetrain on this one...

 

[OregonLC]

The 200s seem to be pretty solid as far as not breaking ring or pinion teeth. Much more so that what I remember from the 100 board.

That said, the Nitro 4.88s were a very robust improvement in the 100s. Based upon that, going with a factory gear wouldn't be part of my decision criteria. I would trust the Nitro brand (along with the folks at Just Differentials )to be a solid solution.

 

[bloc]

I can't remember who I saw write that they weren't happy with the amount of metal coming off their aftermarket gears, especially compared to an OE set. I dont doubt the strength (to an extent a less hard set of gears may be "tougher", I'm not an expert on this though) but in terms of the pattern staying in adjustment because less wear is occurring.. OE seems to be superior.

Happen to have a part number? I was aware Tundras have a 4.3, but the new Tundras with 4.3 use a 10.5” diff. I wasn’t sure if they are available in 9.5”. Toyota parts online only indicates what vehicle it’s suitable for. Says nothing about the ratio or ring size on their ring and pinion sets.

...and now that you’ve broached the subject, I agree that most OEM mechanical parts for the 200 are bomb-proof, but I’m not convinced they are always better than aftermarket.

Thoughts from the community? Let’s not stray too far from diff gearing and drivetrain on this one...

I don't, but @bjowett has done the digging and posted in this section. From memory you can even source a 4.3 e-locker rear for a 200. Housing mods needed, of course.

 

[SQRRRL]

FWIW, I've towed ~ 5K dual axle with 33's and RTT and 5th does fine with 3.90s. Though when pulling I tend to keep it in the 60-65 mph range (much of Oregon is posted 55/60 for trailers). At 12,000 GCVW it can hunt 4-5 on grades and headwind. Though I've pulled it over Santiam pass several times (4,800 elevation gain) and 3rd is plenty, with the occasional 2nd accelerating out of tight corners.

YMMV...

Your driving the truck. This is what the guys @ Slee were saying.

I can't remember who I saw write that they weren't happy with the amount of metal coming off their aftermarket gears, especially compared to an OE set. I dont doubt the strength (to an extent a less hard set of gears may be "tougher", I'm not an expert on this though) but in terms of the pattern staying in adjustment because less wear is occurring.. OE seems to be superior.




I don't, but @bjowett has done the digging and posted in this section. From memory you can even source a 4.3 e-locker rear for a 200. Housing mods needed, of course.

Its possible to source an entire tundra front carrier with 4.30 and rear gears from a 100 series. I was talking with Brian but started drifting to 4.88.

 

[SQRRRL]

Your driving the truck. This is what the guys @ Slee were saying.

Its possible to source an entire tundra front carrier with 4.30 and rear gears from a 100 series. I was talking with Brian but started drifting to 4.88.

I do believe Brian is running 4.30’s. He could give us good info on the subject. Not sure how his rig is set up but I know he likes them.

 

[Letsgomoreplaces]

Guys, the stock gearing is inadequate at best. The trans is doulbe overdrive, so you probably arent using 6th gear much other than flat highway with stock tires. I picked up 4+ mpg going to 4.88 with 35's vs stock gearing. the S/C took some away
check out this calculator too:
JT's Parts & Accessories RPM Calculator

in addition to 4.88 we also offer 4.30 for those looking for a small change.

 

[SQRRRL]

Guys, the stock gearing is inadequate at best. The trans is doulbe overdrive, so you probably arent using 6th gear much other than flat highway with stock tires. I picked up 4+ mpg going to 4.88 with 35's vs stock gearing. the S/C took some away
check out this calculator too:
JT's Parts & Accessories RPM Calculator

in addition to 4.88 we also offer 4.30 for those looking for a small change.

Can you give us some insight into when 4.30’s should be a better choice than 4.88 or visa versa?
I still and I’m sure others are not 100% sure what direction to go.

 

[grinchy]

Get 4.88. I have said this before, but even with 32s and just a rear bumper ( ie not much weight or aero issues) it was a very enjoyable upgrade for everyday use.