300 series rumors??? (2 Viewers)

[Bludozer]

They have indeed. I did just sell a JLUR (Wrangler Rubicon) after running over 65 trails, including some of the hardest trails out there (Rubicon Trail, Holy Cross in Colorado). It was reliable and capable and despite a lot of scrapes and cosmetic body damage, it sold in one hour at a premium. Multiple buyers were clamoring for it.

The 100/200 guys who ran the Rubicon with me would admit it walked 99% of the trail. The combination of capability, durability and tech on that rig are unmatched elsewhere except maybe the new Bronco (yet to be seen how it holds up to abuse.)

Sometimes I think the Toyota religion causes its adherents to rule out that other vehicles can be as good or even better in many regards.

No one would debate a wrangler is trail capable, they're simply the best. I am glad it was reliable while relatively new and under your ownership, but that is the exception not the rule.

The 100/200 was never designed to be capable on the “hardest/tightest/rockiest” trails. Ever. It’s an over landing/rough road truck. Not a crawler, as designed and engineered.

Apples and oranges. The 200 was made to take abuse over long periods of time and last while doing it. Not rock crawl.

 

[OGBeno]

Sometimes I think the Toyota religion causes its adherents to rule out that other vehicles can be as good or even better in many regards.

I know that was directed at me; rightfully so.

I don’t rule out what you said might be the case, I just prefer to ignore it mainly because there is enough about Dodge (Stellanis) and the culture around those vehicles and what they are that make me disinterested and dismissive.

I’m getting old and conservative.

There really isn’t the pathos and ethos or even advanced systematic, long-term thinking around any of the American manufacturers like there is around Toyota for me.

It’s all cleaning up dumpster fires by throwing “glamorous” products, high MX throw away vehicles at the inherently cultural issues I find problematic with the American makes.

This differentiation is just as important as the product.

 

[Canyonero]

The 100/200 was never designed to be capable on the “hardest/tightest/rockiest” trails. Ever. It’s an over landing/rough road truck. Not a crawler, as designed and engineered.

I'm well aware. Its intended use-case/engineering ethos is something like 25 years over unpaved roads while towing.

 

[04UZJ100]

I'm well aware. Its intended use-case/engineering ethos is something like 25 years over unpaved roads while towing.

Your original post inferred 200 owners would be jealous of a Jeep doing Jeep things, though.

 

[Canyonero]

Your original post inferred 200 owners would be jealous of a Jeep doing Jeep things, though.

I know of no one else who has built up and wheeled (hard) a brand new wrangler Rubicon JL and done the same with a brand new 200. The JL being markedly different (and superior in every way) than the prior JK is a distinction of importance here in case anyone pulls the “I used to own a jeep” comment.

So please forgive me but I bring a very rare and unique perspective to the rigs, what they’re made for, what they’re good at and where they come up short. I’d be interested in listening to anyone’s compare/contrast opinion provided they share this level of street cred.

As for 200 Series owners being jealous or envious of Jeep capability… I will just say that once you drop $30k into your rig, there’s a black hole level of gravitational pull towards confirmation bias that starts to take over. You double-down on what you’ve done and go further into the abyss. Nothing wrong with this, just pointing out its human nature. I did it myself. There’s a tendency in that case to label “other” as “less”, when the person labeling may not have the data to make a grounded assertion.

My point is keep an open mind. Maybe I was jealous of jeep capability on some level when I had my 200. I convinced myself they were junk while I kept writing checks for lockers, winch, armor, lift, tires…to make my 200 something it wasn’t.

Many people are building their 200’s to do very Jeep-y things, and more power to them if that’s what they enjoy. That level of build on a 200 was ultimately a waste of money for me. I enjoyed aspects of it, but I reached the conclusion that I like vehicles built for a specific purpose and using them accordingly, vs. trying to transform them into something they’re not.

There’s a few reasons everyone loves the FJ80… It’s the most like a Jeep.

Toyota has ceded the “wheeling” ground to Jeep and Ford, and they’ve smartly continued their overland platforms with a re-design of the 4Runner (2023?) and Sequoia, which will both be significant in the overlanding community. I think this was wise, given that Toyota isn’t wired to bring true off roading rock-crawlers or Baja runners to market.

Now how about that new LX600! I’m getting excited for it, and hoping to pick one up and make it into a great family overlander.

 

[kreiten]

And yet I've seen countless video's of Toyota testing it on the rocks All kidding aside everyone has stereotypes they throw around all the time... IFS sucks, AHC sucks, Jeeps suck, Ford sucks etc.. A couple years ago when I set out to do the Rubicon in my 100 series my buddies with 80's thought I was insane, you can't take IFS on the Rubicon, it's too big etc... Hold my beer! I've taking my 100 on the Rubicon twice now with zero issues! With lockers, gears, wheels, tires and rear bumper I'm in to my rig around 10kish... I drank the coolaid and it taste pretty damn good so I'll keep drinking it! And I will tell ya this, I will wheel with anyone so long as they are cool, don't care if ya rock a Landcruiser, Jeep or Yugo, I'm down!

 

[TonyP]

In this thread we discover tribalism. This is nothing new in the automotive world (or sports or politics or model trains or whatever). People like what they like and everything else is s*** in contrast.

Toyotas are cool, but if a new 2-Door Bronco was ready to buy on the dealer lot, I would have bought one. I think they're neat. If a cheap Wrangler popped up when I was looking for a car in Italy, I would have bought one too.

 

[kreiten]

In this thread we discover tribalism. This is nothing new in the automotive world (or sports or politics or model trains or whatever). People like what they like and everything else is s*** in contrast.

Toyotas are cool, but if a new 2-Door Bronco was ready to buy on the dealer lot, I would have bought one. I think they're neat. If a cheap Wrangler popped up when I was looking for a car in Italy, I would have bought one too.

Yep, I drive LC’s, I shoot with Nikons and for model trains I go HO scale Athearn Genisis .

 

[Gazziza]

In this thread we discover tribalism. This is nothing new in the automotive world (or sports or politics or model trains or whatever). People like what they like and everything else is s*** in contrast.

Toyotas are cool, but if a new 2-Door Bronco was ready to buy on the dealer lot, I would have bought one. I think they're neat. If a cheap Wrangler popped up when I was looking for a car in Italy, I would have bought one too.

You should listen to the Overland Journal podcast about the new Bronco. They love the powertrain and capability but ragged on its interior. Essentially if you look at the interior in the wrong way it's going to get scratched and show marks. They said it had an interior of a Ford Fiesta and by comparison the Wrangler had a much nicer quality interior. I'm not paying $50k+ for that.

 

[TonyP]

You should listen to the Overland Journal podcast about the new Bronco. They love the powertrain and capability but ragged on its interior. Essentially if you look at the interior in the wrong way it's going to get scratched and show marks. They said it had an interior of a Ford Fiesta and by comparison the Wrangler had a much nicer quality interior. I'm not paying $50k+ for that.

I currently drive a $1000, 210k mile, 2005 Honda CRV with a leaking P/S pump and a spray painted black hood. Anything is a step up at this point.

 

[Bludozer]

I currently drive a $1000, 210k mile, 2005 Honda CRV with a leaking P/S pump and a spray painted black hood. Anything is a step up at this point.

Cruisers and beaters for me as well. Before I had a company car I drove (still have it) a 2006 Volvo XC70 with 210k miles. Before that, a high-mile, wheel-well rusted mazda protege5 that saw many, many fwd burn outs.

 

[JohnPW]

Cruisers and beaters for me as well. Before I had a company car I drove (still have it) a 2006 Volvo XC70 with 210k miles. Before that, a high-mile, wheel-well rusted mazda protege5 that saw many, many fwd burn outs.

Lexus, Toyota and Honda here. Have owned a Chevy Tahoe (never again) and several Fords and a 1986 Jeep Wrangler bought new as well. I am sold on Toyota reliability. This side track on whether a Rubicon is better than a LC for rock crawling is beside the point for me, and probably the majority here…the question is how reliable is that Rubicon 10 years and 150K miles later. The bias on this site is the capability combined with reliability of Toyota versus everything else. I haven’t seen evidence to counter that bias.

 

[TonyP]

Cruisers and beaters for me as well. Before I had a company car I drove (still have it) a 2006 Volvo XC70 with 210k miles. Before that, a high-mile, wheel-well rusted mazda protege5 that saw many, many fwd burn outs.

I actually enjoy having a s***box. I've bumped into a few things, park wherever I want (Italy is door-ding central), bomb around roundabouts. It's great!

That said, I bought a newer Golf GTI (manual of course) I'm picking up tomorrow for a second car. That's a fun car. Plus, I need something that won't cost as much in P/S fluid than gas for road trips in Europe.

 

[Bludozer]

I actually enjoy having a s***box. I've bumped into a few things, park wherever I want (Italy is door-ding central), bomb around roundabouts. It's great!

That said, I bought a newer Golf GTI (manual of course) I'm picking up tomorrow for a second car. That's a fun car. Plus, I need something that won't cost as much in P/S fluid than gas for road trips in Europe.

There is something so freeing about a beater. The fastest car in the world is the one you care the least about.

Sidenote but where in Italy are you? I was there right before the pandemic, still have family in the south.

 

[TonyP]

There is something so freeing about a beater. The fastest car in the world is the one you care the least about.

Sidenote but where in Italy are you? I was there right before the pandemic, still have family in the south.

I'm stationed at Aviano AB.
About an hour north of Venice.

 

[Romer]

As always Tony, Thank you for your service

I may be considered tribal I guess. I have no issue with Canyonero believing the New Rubicons are built for wheeling. They are great vehicles

I have a different opinion on the 200s then he does. I Have built mine and wheeled it everywhere my 80 went. Except for the Rubicon Trail, just haven't gotten out there. I would disagree with your assessment on the 200 vs Jeep, but that is my opinion. I know I haven't driven the new Rubicon so I don't have street cred, but I have wheeled Land Cruisers a lot longer and in many more places than you have and that has defined my perspective. I bought my first FJ40 in 1979. Then had GMCs, Dodge, Jeep ( I know it doesn[' count) and came back to Land Cruiser 20 years ago. I have had 40's (still have one), 80's, 100's and now a 200. My daughter dives a GX470 (Prado) and the other daughter has a 100 series. Her 100 series is 18 years old and has zero issues. She has owned it for 10 years. We take our three cruisers all over Colorado and Utah.

I see how Kurt (and team) races Monica and it has the same drivetrain as my 200. That is what sold me on it the way it stands up to punishment and the reliability. That was 6 years ago before I moved to a 200 and they are still racing Monica

I agree the New Jeep Rubicon is a fine vehicle. I bet it wheels great. I have looked at but not driven one. I am glad you found a wheeling rig that suits you. I have one that suits me as well.

That is why they make Chocolate and Vanilla as everyone has a different preference. I like Strawberry BTW

 

[on the rocks]

I'm surprised this thread continues to chug along considering most that post are in the states. Might as well rename it Sequoya 2023... From the sounds of it that will be the closest anyone in the states will get outside the LX, which will now basically be a Sequoya. If Toyota is promising something big, let hope its a 70 refined a bit and get out in the states already, especially with the gladiator coming out and as popular as it is. The overland expo in Loveland CO last month had a 70 with a ton of people checking it out. One or two others with alot of interest. Outside that all Jeep and Mercedes. Almost zero land cruiser presence. As always now all Toyota was Tacoma and 4runner for Toyota. The one or two 200's there haze zero interest from what I saw. I know people want to hate here when its said but for a overlander vehicle, it sure is striking out.
Bring the true Land Cruiser back already,

 

[Sinister]

Buddy of mine that works for Toyota sent this. Pretty good info. It’s about the 300 and sequoia.

 

[ryanCA]

Buddy of mine that works for Toyota sent this. Pretty good info. It’s about the 300 and sequoia.

The 2023 Sequoia will be revealed in November, debuting at the LAIAS. Should be in showrooms by the end of February and will begin production around December.

 

[FJ73Texas]

The 2023 Sequoia will be revealed in November, debuting at the LAIAS. Should be in showrooms by the end of February and will begin production around December.

Are you sure those dates are correct? What is the source? Just wondering.