3 Link vs. Superflex?

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Calidevildoc

Calidevildoc

Joined
Mar 22, 2018
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Location
Bethesda, MD
For those of you who are suspension gurus, can someone debate and explain the science behind the benefits and negatives between a 3 link set up (something like 4wheelunderground's kit) vs. superior engineering's superflex vs. slee's 4inch or 6inch lift kits? I see people running all sorts of suspension and they all seem great, but I would like to know specific applications and whats best for what. Thanks!
 
This might sound odd but it’s the difference between whitey tighty and boxer’s. Stock is restrictive. Linking is freeing in every since of off-road enjoyment. The limit is your shock at that point
 
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I’ve run both; the truck is currently 3 linked, previously ran the superflex arms for a few years, before that it was a lift with no caster correction and stock radius arms.

You’re comparing two wildly different things which depend greatly on what you want the vehicle to do and how much you’re willing to invest in time, effort, money, etc into the vehicle.
 
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cjmoon said:
This might sound odd but it’s the difference between whitey titties and boxer’s. Stock is restrictive. Linking is freeing in every since of off-road enjoyment. The limit is your shock at that point
Click to expand...

On a more serious note, it’s not limited to just the shock. It totally depends on the setup, joints used, steering components (rod end misalignment), etc.

If the OP is inexeperienced, I would say to start some springs, shocks, and caster correction and go from there. Learn the truck before changing several things.
 
cjmoon said:
This might sound odd but it’s the difference between whitey titties and boxer’s. Stock is restrictive. Linking is freeing in every since of off-road enjoyment. The limit is your shock at that point
Click to expand...

Not titties but Tighty Whities, keep it clean. :censor:
 
Their designs are fundamentally different. A bad 3 link could be universally worse than a superflex setup while a proper 3 link with proper shocks/springs/anti-roll bars could be better in every regard as well.

One thing they share is the use of a track bar, and for the most part, because of that, their roll axis is roughly constrained by the same factors (lower link mount locations on frame and axle).
 
Well, I never even had a 4x4 until my tacoma, 3 years ago. After about a 2 years of research and learning, I was considering installing long-travel, and realized that although high speed desert driving and jumps may be fun, I don't really have a desire to do that. I would rather have more travel and smoother ride over trails, as well as easier options for front/rear lockers, larger tires, etc. I also learned about solid axles and how rugged they are compared to IFS, so I got the land cruiser, plus my father had an original 1994 land cruiser that I grew up with and loved. Unfortunately he sold it about 15 years ago.

I did an old man emu lift with nitrocharger shocks and upgraded to 33" tires on the tacoma, full skid plates, sliders etc. I still feel limited by tire size and lack of travel in the front. Thus I wanted to buy a land cruiser and go all out, so I'm just in the process of gathering information and learning as much as I can at this time.

I guess my goal would be to overbuild the suspension so that I can drive over basically any trail with ease. I don't really want to get into rock crawling, but I would like my rig to be somewhat capable in that regard. For example, my tacoma would likely still take a spotter and careful driving to get through some harder trails. I would like the land cruiser at the point where my wife can drive it on most trails with just a spotter. I don't want to sound like some uneducated knucklehead who just wants some extreme rig. I've already done lots of research, but just trying to learn more. Thanks for the comments so far!

nukegoat said:
One thing they share is the use of a track bar, and for the most part, because of that, their roll axis is roughly constrained by the same factors (lower link mount locations on frame and axle).
Click to expand...

In regards to roll axis and lower link mount locations, by my understanding, the superflex uses the stock lower link mount location, but with a 3 link, you can use longer arms and just weld the mount location further back, which may allow for more travel? (genuine question, just asking to see if I understand whats going on)
 
As some have cryptically hinted at, one 3-link can vary wildly from another since the whole shebang must be designed and built by the individual. A poorly executed 3 link will be a death trap, a well-executed 3 link will offer amazing offroad capability and good-as-stock road manners. It takes someone with a lot of knowledge, time and fabrication skill to pull off the latter.

Calidevildoc said:
Well, I never even had a 4x4 until my tacoma, 3 years ago. After about a 2 years of research and learning, I was considering installing long-travel, and realized that although high speed desert driving and jumps may be fun, I don't really have a desire to do that. I would rather have more travel and smoother ride over trails, as well as easier options for front/rear lockers, larger tires, etc. I also learned about solid axles and how rugged they are compared to IFS, so I got the land cruiser, plus my father had an original 1994 land cruiser that I grew up with and loved. Unfortunately he sold it about 15 years ago.

I did an old man emu lift with nitrocharger shocks and upgraded to 33" tires on the tacoma, full skid plates, sliders etc. I still feel limited by tire size and lack of travel in the front. Thus I wanted to buy a land cruiser and go all out, so I'm just in the process of gathering information and learning as much as I can at this time.

I guess my goal would be to overbuild the suspension so that I can drive over basically any trail with ease. I don't really want to get into rock crawling, but I would like my rig to be somewhat capable in that regard. For example, my tacoma would likely still take a spotter and careful driving to get through some harder trails. I would like the land cruiser at the point where my wife can drive it on most trails with just a spotter. I don't want to sound like some uneducated knucklehead who just wants some extreme rig. I've already done lots of research, but just trying to learn more. Thanks for the comments so far!



In regards to roll axis and lower link mount locations, by my understanding, the superflex uses the stock lower link mount location, but with a 3 link, you can use longer arms and just weld the mount location further back, which may allow for more travel? (genuine question, just asking to see if I understand whats going on)
Click to expand...

There are a whole lotta guys out there accomplishing your stated goal with a 3" lift, gears and 35-37" tires. Why overthink it?

Also with regard to your Tacoma, LT does increase your articulation by a good measure and would be an improvement for general off-roading, not just desert bombing (assuming your trail isn't too narrow). However your front diff will still be relatively weak compared to the 80. Running with the front open and the rear locked through most obstacles would minimize the risk of diff carnage.
 
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Calidevildoc said:
I guess my goal would be to overbuild the suspension so that I can drive over basically any trail with ease. I don't really want to get into rock crawling, but I would like my rig to be somewhat capable in that regard.
Click to expand...
"Any trail with ease" is a noble goal, but unachievable. Whatever your rig, there will be some section of planet that someone will call a "trail" that will not be easy. If the Rubicon were "easy" (and it is at best "manageable" in some rigs), they'd guide you to the Hammers.

If I understand the original poster's question, it is something that interests me and likely many others. "What are the trade offs between stock, a 4" Slee lift, a 4" lift with Superflex arms, or a 4" lift and a 3 link set up (and name one if there's a kit you suggest, or mention design elements if no kit is ideal).

Stock has a clear advantage in cost and on road drivablity. Free, lower center of gravity, and OEM handling. Cons is limited articulation and lower clearance of obstacles.

The lift options mentioned by the OP implied he wanted to stay around the same lift height of 4" or 6". I think he understands (as do I) that the choices are apples and oranges. You can describe differences between apples and oranges, andr it may help people decide. (For instance you eat the peel of an apple, and you need to remove the peel of the orange to eat it.)

I think the Slee lift without new arms vs with new arms would largely balance the cost of Superflex arms. Do the Superflex arms add any (real life) advantage? Any disadvantage (aside from the cost and installation time) on road or off?

Is there a 3-link option that is considered safe on a daily driver rig, or are they as quirky as a 4" lifted rig with no caster correction? Are there shock options or steering options that allow the theoretic advantages to work? What advantage does it have over the Superflex?
 
I’m glad a couple experts have chimed in. :rolleyes:

If you’re getting into 3-link land, you should probably have a pretty good understanding of how engineering and design works (I don’t). After looking at some of the components on the 4WU kit, I’m not sure it would stand up to the meal I would be serving it. That said, my use is a little on the heavy end.

But after seeing how the frame on these is put together, I don’t really trust ANY upper link mount just welded to the frame in the preferred spot for them. Not on a rig that gets used often anyway. There’s just not enough structure there in my opinion.

I pretty much copied the link mount on a truck which has spent probably 60 total days wheeling since its current owner bought it and while he has had no issues in that spot, I’m pretty sure I surpassed the amount of time he put on his upper link bracket in a few months and it shows.

My rig goes out at least once a week, soon to be multiple times a week getting abused in pretty aggressive terrain; it’s not always rock crawling, but it’s still pretty damn hard on components. Right now it’s laid up to fix this little problem, which happened on a trail Saturday.

F9632CB7-791A-4417-BA6B-20A42A16D5B1.jpeg


As you can see, the inside of the frame doesn’t really have much structure to it. The outside isn’t much better; a bunch of random little holes and a big seam where the onboard frame plates meet. Not exactly ideal for mounting a bracket to.

There’s definitely a learning curve with the 3-link. I like the way it drives, but even after a year and ~35,000 miles, I’m still learning it’s weak spots, limitations, etc.

It’s my daily driver too.

It sounds like you should probably put some springs and shocks on yours, take it out and change as your needs change.
 
I'm happy w/ my 3 link.
I bought my first 80 series (LX450) this year. So i have no real comparison to wheeling a stock, or 4" lifted 80. I can tell you it sure rides nice though. My wife loves the ride compared to my SAS'd leaf sprung second gen 4Runner
My 450 has 4" lift, fox 12" travel coilovers, and rides like its on a cloud.

I've wheeled w/ plenty of 80's over the years and if you're not looking to get to radical, just go w/ a 4" lift and some 35's. Just my $0.02

IMG_4245.jpg
 
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